Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USC is a very good school - supremely wealthy and using its money and alumni connections to improve the academic offerings, not just sports. Their academic strengths are in creative/literary/film areas, but they're really expanding science/tech areas. It used to be known mostly as a party school, but they are actively trying to change that image. There is a huge cultural difference between East and West coast (I've lived and studied and worked in both, I happen to prefer California). That's a big factor - if you love East Coast culture, and want something similar, don't do it. If you don't like prep life in DC and want to experience something different, check it out. It is in a bad neighborhood, and I don't mean transitional/gentrifying. I lived in LA and worked at USC, and I would often hear of students who were victims of violence and theft. Part of that is because crime happens when you're out at 3 am, and at USC, you're out at 3 am in a bad neighborhood. If you want to live in a better/safer part of town, it's a nightmarish commute and very expensive elsewhere. So that's a big factor in quality of life issues. I went to an Ivy League school, and would've been happy to send my kids to USC (I would've forced them had I still been on staff there - free tuition!) - but I would've done a lesson on being streetwise and prudent. You should definitely spend a little time in LA before deciding to go there - it's vastly different from the East Coast, and many people hate it (I don't - I love love love it).

would you send your child to USC over UCLA if you were an OOS parent or would it be program dependent?

LA native here. I'd absolutely choose UCLA over USC. Perhaps the reputation has changed, but when I was going to college USC was definitely seen as 2nd tier behind UCLA, Cal.

Anonymous wrote:Is there a strong alumni network on the east coast?

Not really - because there aren't a lot of USC alum out here. Those who go to Southern California from the East Coast for school tend to remain out west. If you want your child to live out here, don't send them out there. If you are don't care where your child chooses to live or are considering a move out west, then no worries.

Is there a strong alumni network on the east coast?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s certainly true that most kids in Southern California do not grow up in a bubble. They tend to be exposed to “adult” things (drugs, cosmetic surgery, body consciousness, martial infidelity) at a much earlier age than children in other parts of the country. Growing up within a mile of impoverished areas has drawbacks as well as benefits. Without judging whether growing up fast and worldly is better or worse, I’d just say it’s “different.” IMHO that culture is challenging for a 18 year old East Coast girl to move into and I am personally aware of more than one child from this area who got caught up in the lifestyle in a bad way. Every child is different and I suppose for some the freedom of the Cali lifestyle is just what they need. Not my DC.

Kids everywhere are exposed to "adult" things. Just turn on the television (and I don't mean after 9pm) for a daily dose of adult action including sex, violence, infidelity, etc. Every teen experiences body consciousness especially girls as they diet themselves into oblivion to fit into a size negative two like anorexic models. Marital infidelity? You mean the politicians who run off to other countries to visit their girlfriends, leave sick wives for other women, have children with the household help, etc, etc, etc.

Unless you're living under a rock, no kids anywhere are growing up in a bubble. DC is no exception.

I agree. I grew up out there and raised kids in DMV. Parents have to be super vigilant everywhere. My childhood growing up in California was idyllic but it no longer exists. So Cal. indeed a very superficial culture with great emphasis on appearance and other superficial values. I agree with the PP who said USC is not a good school for women. On the other hand, a friend with a daughter in first year of Stanford says the same for Stanford ("the men treat the freshmen women like fresh meat"). Go figure. Also, please remember you cannot compare USC to the UC schools, like UCLA. USC is private and very expensive (and in a crummy area). The UC schools are all over and yes it is difficult to get in as an OSS, but I don't know why you would want to when there are so many excellent in state schools here. There is also the enormous Cal State system, as well, but those slots are almost always taken by Californians. USC was definitely a party school when I attended college but with a large alumni network. It has grown up in the last few decades but is still considered the University of Spoiled Children. A relative recently graduated and has massive student loans to pay back and is still unemployed four years later. I don't see the value for an east coast person plus you have to remember to tack on travel expenses for student and family on top of the private fees. If you have a smart kid who wants a degree of value but wants to be in So. Cal, I would recommend today Pomona, Harvey-Mudd, Claremont-McKenna. Those are serious private SLACs with good endowments.

PP, with due respect to you, who grew up in California but no longer lives here, your "superficial culture with a superficial emphasis" analysis is a gross stereotype based - as far as I can tell - on certain cross-sections of the Westside culture, mixed in with certain parts of the OC demographics. Our family currently lives in DC, and has for almost four years now, but spent the past 16 years in California. We have had children attend parts of primary, middle, and high schools in both places. I concur with the previous poster with experience in both places. The DC area has an affluent, highly-educated, very driven, and "somewhat" competitive co-hort of peers. It is diverse, yes, but generally only within the same socio-economic class. So your international, Latino, and African American friends here are all likely to be similarly highly-educated, ambitious, and affluent. There is nothing wrong with that as it breeds children who emphasize and value education, success, vacations abroad, etc.; but this environment also creates a "bubble" or divide, a possibly smug-, upper-class prepiness, or over-concern with things like money, power, connections, and affluence. That might be one valid stereotype of this area, but it would not be any more valid than your broad-brush strokes characterization of California.

The California I recently raised my children in, highly valued education, achievement, and success - see the high National Merit scores, the number of Intel, Siemens, and other national contest winners in all areas of study. It also highly valued, as the previous poster has noted, the Arts. Visual and performing arts, as well as music, were not just things that you studied solely and exhibited at school. There were incredible outlets for these talents in the wider community at the highest of levels. That kind of commitment to arts and music development is not the same here, where I find that there is much more of an emphasis on athletics. Finally, I agree that the year-round outdoor athletic culture, the emphasis on our environmental heritage, the teaching of local history, and the outdoor education trips of California were unique and valued treasures of raising a child in California. I especially value the weather in light of all those missed days of school here this past winter.

Do I love raising my children in this area now? Yes, of course I do. DC is also a wonderful place to raise a family, though for different reasons. I simply take umbrage at previous poster who were raised in a California in previous generations, but did not raise their own children there, retorting with the very negative stereotypes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s certainly true that most kids in Southern California do not grow up in a bubble. They tend to be exposed to “adult” things (drugs, cosmetic surgery, body consciousness, martial infidelity) at a much earlier age than children in other parts of the country. Growing up within a mile of impoverished areas has drawbacks as well as benefits. Without judging whether growing up fast and worldly is better or worse, I’d just say it’s “different.” IMHO that culture is challenging for a 18 year old East Coast girl to move into and I am personally aware of more than one child from this area who got caught up in the lifestyle in a bad way. Every child is different and I suppose for some the freedom of the Cali lifestyle is just what they need. Not my DC.

Kids everywhere are exposed to "adult" things. Just turn on the television (and I don't mean after 9pm) for a daily dose of adult action including sex, violence, infidelity, etc. Every teen experiences body consciousness especially girls as they diet themselves into oblivion to fit into a size negative two like anorexic models. Marital infidelity? You mean the politicians who run off to other countries to visit their girlfriends, leave sick wives for other women, have children with the household help, etc, etc, etc.

Unless you're living under a rock, no kids anywhere are growing up in a bubble. DC is no exception.

I agree. I grew up out there and raised kids in DMV. Parents have to be super vigilant everywhere. My childhood growing up in California was idyllic but it no longer exists. So Cal. indeed a very superficial culture with great emphasis on appearance and other superficial values. I agree with the PP who said USC is not a good school for women. On the other hand, a friend with a daughter in first year of Stanford says the same for Stanford ("the men treat the freshmen women like fresh meat"). Go figure. Also, please remember you cannot compare USC to the UC schools, like UCLA. USC is private and very expensive (and in a crummy area). The UC schools are all over and yes it is difficult to get in as an OSS, but I don't know why you would want to when there are so many excellent in state schools here. There is also the enormous Cal State system, as well, but those slots are almost always taken by Californians. USC was definitely a party school when I attended college but with a large alumni network. It has grown up in the last few decades but is still considered the University of Spoiled Children. A relative recently graduated and has massive student loans to pay back and is still unemployed four years later. I don't see the value for an east coast person plus you have to remember to tack on travel expenses for student and family on top of the private fees. If you have a smart kid who wants a degree of value but wants to be in So. Cal, I would recommend today Pomona, Harvey-Mudd, Claremont-McKenna. Those are serious private SLACs with good endowments.

Anonymous wrote:It’s certainly true that most kids in Southern California do not grow up in a bubble. They tend to be exposed to “adult” things (drugs, cosmetic surgery, body consciousness, martial infidelity) at a much earlier age than children in other parts of the country. Growing up within a mile of impoverished areas has drawbacks as well as benefits. Without judging whether growing up fast and worldly is better or worse, I’d just say it’s “different.” IMHO that culture is challenging for a 18 year old East Coast girl to move into and I am personally aware of more than one child from this area who got caught up in the lifestyle in a bad way. Every child is different and I suppose for some the freedom of the Cali lifestyle is just what they need. Not my DC.

Kids everywhere are exposed to "adult" things. Just turn on the television (and I don't mean after 9pm) for a daily dose of adult action including sex, violence, infidelity, etc. Every teen experiences body consciousness especially girls as they diet themselves into oblivion to fit into a size negative two like anorexic models. Marital infidelity? You mean the politicians who run off to other countries to visit their girlfriends, leave sick wives for other women, have children with the household help, etc, etc, etc.

Unless you're living under a rock, no kids anywhere are growing up in a bubble. DC is no exception.

It’s certainly true that most kids in Southern California do not grow up in a bubble. They tend to be exposed to “adult” things (drugs, cosmetic surgery, body consciousness, martial infidelity) at a much earlier age than children in other parts of the country. Growing up within a mile of impoverished areas has drawbacks as well as benefits. Without judging whether growing up fast and worldly is better or worse, I’d just say it’s “different.” IMHO that culture is challenging for a 18 year old East Coast girl to move into and I am personally aware of more than one child from this area who got caught up in the lifestyle in a bad way. Every child is different and I suppose for some the freedom of the Cali lifestyle is just what they need. Not my DC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I lived in LA, USC was known as THE place for cocaine – even for actors and others in the Hollywood lifestyle. I know USC has tried to reduce the drug culture, but I still hear about actors appearing at fraternity parties. Judge for yourself by visiting the school, but the combination of a rich student body + truly urban location + big time fraternity system + fast Hollywood culture = trouble for many young kids. I chose to give up the perks of SoCal to raise my kids away from that fast culture.

And traded for a DC area culture?

IMHO, The DMV is an ideal place to raise a family, but I'm curious why some here think the DMV is a poor culture to raise kids. For comparison, here are the flaws I observed in California:

An emphasis on "being cool" above all else while leads to an obsessive body consciousness (dangerous for a girl), de-emphasis on academics and intellectual ability in favor of physical appearance. Lack of traditional values and morality, which leads to many broken families and girls being under pressure to "put out" at an early age. Rampant drug use.

Overall, I think parents in the DMV obsess about their kids while parents on SoCal obsess about themselves and the kids grow up fast.

I respectfully disagree, having raised my children happily in both places. It is true that DC parents are more likely to discuss international affairs with their children, but Californians are likely to encounter and consider important domestic issues of poverty, immigration, incredible socio-economic and ethnic diversity. It was not until we lived in a California that my daughter asked questions about, why does that person always stand on the highway ramp, or outside the Starbucks, where do they sleep at night and how do they eat, how did that person become like that, can they get a job? Likewise the socio-economic diversity means that you drive from high-end luxury neighborhood to new-immigrant modest apartments in just one mile. In DC, many children growing up in NW will never go to areas like SE, whereas in a California a mix of different areas are woven into the landscape. DC's general economic affluence and intellectual concentration is both stimulating, and at the same time somewhat of a sheltered bubble (or in CA parlance, it's own sort of "gated community").

The high-level emphasis on the visual arts, performing arts, and vocal and instrumental music is another difference between DC and California. Students in California focus more on the arts and music, and as a result the level of those activities, instruction, and opportunities, far surpasses what we experienced in DC. Finally, athletics and indeed most activities are enjoyed outdoors year-round, which I find to be an incredibly healthy change as well. PP, I do not know if you have enjoyed the opportunity to raise your children in both places. I have, and as such I can tell you that both DC and California are great places to raise children, each in their own way. I suspect that you may unfortunately be holding on to some outdated stereotypes from your youth.

PP makes good points. Those who go to USC from the East Coast AND enjoy the experience tend to stay in Southern California. Those who return to the East Coast most often do so because they had a less than satisfactory college experience. That explains why you won't find too many USC supporters out here. I've heard that most students who go to California for school stay out west, which is a reason some parents are reluctant to have their children go West for college.

USC is currently (perhaps it was not always the case) a well-regarded "California" school. If you are from California and you consider Berkeley and UCLA too large, or Stanford too competitive, and you do not want to stray too far from the State, you may be drawn to USC instead. Because California is such a large State, with so many people, USC draws a lot of highly-qualified students. The USC alumni network in Californis is very strong, and those ties run deep.

All that said, USC is located in a not-so-desirable neighborhood, in the middle of one of the country's most urban environments (LA), in a dry, warm, and arid-looking region. If you are coming from the verdant East Coast, and from a particularly bucolic urban environment -as DC is - you may very well hate it.

Californians are used to the landscape, and the urban diversity of LA; and knowing the State well, they can easily retreat to other, more beautiful areas of LA and California as needed. In my experience, the Californians thrive at USC, and East Coast students from particularly bucolic regions have a hard time living here initially.

The good news is that California grows on you eventually. What may have initially seemed like a gritty urban environment, opens up to reveal a dynamic, diverse, and creative hodge-podge of high-end tastes and innovate pop-ups, and indigenous flavor -- there is really nothing else like that City.

Importantly to you, your student will be very well-situated and connected for future opportunities if they plan to stay in California or the West. I still think tha USC is not as highly-regarded as it probably should be on the East Coast. If your child is adventurous and open-minded, and they want to live and work on the West Coast eventually, then USC is a very good choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it's seriously University of Spoiled Children. I spent a term at the law school. Blondes, suntans, fancy cars everywhere even in the law school. Packed up and returned east.

That is what drove you out? No way would I turn my back on a good education because of fancy cars and tanned blonds. As long as they didn't get in the way of my education, who cares?

However, good that you found your east coast niche was where you needed to be. Nothing wrong with that!

Funny.

Anonymous wrote:No, it's seriously University of Spoiled Children. I spent a term at the law school. Blondes, suntans, fancy cars everywhere even in the law school. Packed up and returned east.

That is what drove you out? No way would I turn my back on a good education because of fancy cars and tanned blonds. As long as they didn't get in the way of my education, who cares?

However, good that you found your east coast niche was where you needed to be. Nothing wrong with that!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a school full of extremely wealthy kids. Kids who own their own houses and drive exotic cars. Think a Walmart heiress returned her degree after the school investigated her for hiring her roommate to do some of her assignments.

And you don't think cheating happens at other colleges?

There are wealthy kids at Harvard, Princeton, and a host of other colleges. No one college has a monopoly on cheating. I don't have a dog in the USC fight but it is a good academic school just like others who have had problems.

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/oct/20/local/me-heiress20

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-10-biggest-cheating-scandals-to-rock-college-campuses-2012-8?op=1

http://www.thewire.com/national/2013/05/barnard-college-cheating-scandal/64980/

http://cefb.campusexplorer.com/list/famous-college-cheating-scandals/

No, it's seriously University of Spoiled Children. I spent a term at the law school. Blondes, suntans, fancy cars everywhere even in the law school. Packed up and returned east.

Anonymous wrote:It is a school full of extremely wealthy kids. Kids who own their own houses and drive exotic cars. Think a Walmart heiress returned her degree after the school investigated her for hiring her roommate to do some of her assignments.

And you don't think cheating happens at other colleges?