Anonymous
09/13/2013 12:10
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:Yes, we have a new multifamily development going up near our SFH neighborhood. Our community has been assured that this will not affect our already overcrowded school.
No one tells people in SFH neighborhoods that new multifamily developments will have no effect on local schools. FCPS does an analysis as to how many students are expected to come from the new developments, and the county then seeks a proffer/contribution from the developers to cover the anticipated expense. The challenge is that the "yields" may be higher than the historical data might suggest, as more people with children live in multi-family housing.
Another challenge is when predictions about future school enrollments are based on the number of live births in various areas, when some neighborhoods get a lot of families who move in with older kids.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 11:40
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
10:55 I think people use this board to help get the facts straight. I don't think this is their only means of communication to make change. It's just a method to learn more before taking action.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 11:14
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Every school system and jurisdiction in this area has challenges.
Most DC and PG public schools are not good places for learning.
Montgomery is taxing many high-income residents and businesses away to other jurisdictions, and many parents there are worried that Joshua Starr's plan to shrink the achievement gap mostly will entail bringing the bottom down.
Arlington underestimated the growth in its enrollment and built new schools that simply are not big enough. Many people there are looking at getting redistricted soon, and there remains a large gap between the perceived quality of North and South Arlington schools.
Falls Church City has capacity issues, due to underestimating the number of families who would move into multi-family developments, and some of the schools are aging, unimpressive facilities.
Loudoun has a comparatively small tax base and does not pay its teachers as much as other jurisdictions. It has the highest median incomes in the country, but the test scores of its students are not commensurate with what one might expect given the income levels.
Fairfax has better schools than DC and PG, lower taxes than Montgomery, more middle-income neighborhoods than Arlington, and a larger tax base and higher test scores than Loudoun. It also has some of the strains facing other jurisdictions - a growing number of students with greater needs, capacity issues in various parts of the county, some schools that should have been renovated years ago, and overcrowded classes. Class size is a focal point of concern in some areas, and raises legitimate questions as to whether taxes should be higher, capacity should be greater, and the allocation of resources within the county should be examined. But these are ultimately political decisions, and parents of current FCPS students are not the only ones affected by such decisions.
Most DC and PG public schools are not good places for learning.
Montgomery is taxing many high-income residents and businesses away to other jurisdictions, and many parents there are worried that Joshua Starr's plan to shrink the achievement gap mostly will entail bringing the bottom down.
Arlington underestimated the growth in its enrollment and built new schools that simply are not big enough. Many people there are looking at getting redistricted soon, and there remains a large gap between the perceived quality of North and South Arlington schools.
Falls Church City has capacity issues, due to underestimating the number of families who would move into multi-family developments, and some of the schools are aging, unimpressive facilities.
Loudoun has a comparatively small tax base and does not pay its teachers as much as other jurisdictions. It has the highest median incomes in the country, but the test scores of its students are not commensurate with what one might expect given the income levels.
Fairfax has better schools than DC and PG, lower taxes than Montgomery, more middle-income neighborhoods than Arlington, and a larger tax base and higher test scores than Loudoun. It also has some of the strains facing other jurisdictions - a growing number of students with greater needs, capacity issues in various parts of the county, some schools that should have been renovated years ago, and overcrowded classes. Class size is a focal point of concern in some areas, and raises legitimate questions as to whether taxes should be higher, capacity should be greater, and the allocation of resources within the county should be examined. But these are ultimately political decisions, and parents of current FCPS students are not the only ones affected by such decisions.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 11:08
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:All the magnet and special programs and the mushroom cloud that is AAP have deflected from basic good management practices.
+1000 See for example Bailey's Elementary. Given the prevalence of science/technology now, why do we need a magnet. All schools should have a science lab (and possibly a technology also). Kids shouldn't have to be bused to get this and a school's overcrowding shouldn't be made worse because it's a magnet for things every school should have. FCPS, Jack of all trades, master of none.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 10:55
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They've been increasing the general ed class size ratio for the last several years to where it's now getting out of control. School capacity is one problem, but the other is really just class size. Does Arlington also have this needs based staffing ratio where ESL kids and FRM kids are counted almost as 2 students? They seem to do ok class size wise even in schools without a lot of FRM and ESL students.
It isn't recent. My, now Junior, DC had 33 in his 5th grade class.
Arlington has below 10% of their population enrolled in public schools, Fairfax has more than 15% of its population enrolled in public schools. Arlington is a City and has more taxing authority than Fairfax, a County. Arlington is MUCH smaller so that it is easier to lobby and get the ear of a school board member. Those are all reasons why Arlington can afford to have smaller class sizes and has smaller class sizes.
Fairfax can't do anything about its size. It is politically unfeasible to become a City. The type of "smart growth" being done in and around Tyson's. Springfield, Mosaic District... should help decrease the % of the population that is school aged and increase the DINK population (smaller condo types of development with 2 bedrooms max does this). Fairfax has to have a property tax rate that is much higher than Arlington's to provide the same level of services, but that is hard to do.
No it doesn't. Kilmer Middle School had 100 more students than expected this year. Many came from these supposed DINK areas. Classes there are 30+. FCPS continues to underestimate the number of families who live in apartments precisely to be in a good school district. This needs to be addressed NOW before all the schools in these areas are at crisis point.
I agree, but on this board, especially, I see people complaining and not offering up solutions. How do you lower class size given the budget constraints of the county? What is your short term, medium term and long terms plan? Complaining doesn't do a darn thing.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 10:11
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Yes, we have a new multifamily development going up near our SFH neighborhood. Our community has been assured that this will not affect our already overcrowded school.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 10:09
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They've been increasing the general ed class size ratio for the last several years to where it's now getting out of control. School capacity is one problem, but the other is really just class size. Does Arlington also have this needs based staffing ratio where ESL kids and FRM kids are counted almost as 2 students? They seem to do ok class size wise even in schools without a lot of FRM and ESL students.
It isn't recent. My, now Junior, DC had 33 in his 5th grade class.
Arlington has below 10% of their population enrolled in public schools, Fairfax has more than 15% of its population enrolled in public schools. Arlington is a City and has more taxing authority than Fairfax, a County. Arlington is MUCH smaller so that it is easier to lobby and get the ear of a school board member. Those are all reasons why Arlington can afford to have smaller class sizes and has smaller class sizes.
Fairfax can't do anything about its size. It is politically unfeasible to become a City. The type of "smart growth" being done in and around Tyson's. Springfield, Mosaic District... should help decrease the % of the population that is school aged and increase the DINK population (smaller condo types of development with 2 bedrooms max does this). Fairfax has to have a property tax rate that is much higher than Arlington's to provide the same level of services, but that is hard to do.
No it doesn't. Kilmer Middle School had 100 more students than expected this year. Many came from these supposed DINK areas. Classes there are 30+. FCPS continues to underestimate the number of families who live in apartments precisely to be in a good school district. This needs to be addressed NOW before all the schools in these areas are at crisis point.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 10:07
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They've been increasing the general ed class size ratio for the last several years to where it's now getting out of control. School capacity is one problem, but the other is really just class size. Does Arlington also have this needs based staffing ratio where ESL kids and FRM kids are counted almost as 2 students? They seem to do ok class size wise even in schools without a lot of FRM and ESL students.
It isn't recent. My, now Junior, DC had 33 in his 5th grade class.
Arlington has below 10% of their population enrolled in public schools, Fairfax has more than 15% of its population enrolled in public schools. Arlington is a City and has more taxing authority than Fairfax, a County. Arlington is MUCH smaller so that it is easier to lobby and get the ear of a school board member. Those are all reasons why Arlington can afford to have smaller class sizes and has smaller class sizes.
Fairfax can't do anything about its size. It is politically unfeasible to become a City. The type of "smart growth" being done in and around Tyson's. Springfield, Mosaic District... should help decrease the % of the population that is school aged and increase the DINK population (smaller condo types of development with 2 bedrooms max does this). Fairfax has to have a property tax rate that is much higher than Arlington's to provide the same level of services, but that is hard to do.
No it doesn't. Kilmer Middle School had 100 more students than expected this year. Many came from these supposed DINK areas. Classes there are 30+. FCPS continues to underestimate the number of families who live in apartments precisely to be in a good school district. This needs to be addressed NOW before all the schools in these areas are at crisis point.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 09:43
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
7:31 Yes, it's been a problem for awhile, however 2010 was the last class size increase and for this year they reduced the staffing reserve from last year's numbers.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 09:32
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:Arlington is not a city. You do not know what you are talking about.
My mistake, but my point is still valid as Arlington has a local restaurant tax (aka an alternate source of government income). I thought that was only allowed for cities and not counties. Can you shed some light as to how Arlington is allowed to have a restaurant tax and still be a County? What is the history?
Anonymous
09/13/2013 08:42
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
All the magnet and special programs and the mushroom cloud that is AAP have deflected from basic good management practices.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 08:40
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Is it just possible that Arlington is better managed?
Seems to me that with the advent of Dale and his posse of Gibson, Smith and Strauss that things went downhill real fast.
Seems to me that with the advent of Dale and his posse of Gibson, Smith and Strauss that things went downhill real fast.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 08:34
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Arlington is not a city. You do not know what you are talking about.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 07:41
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They've been increasing the general ed class size ratio for the last several years to where it's now getting out of control. School capacity is one problem, but the other is really just class size. Does Arlington also have this needs based staffing ratio where ESL kids and FRM kids are counted almost as 2 students? They seem to do ok class size wise even in schools without a lot of FRM and ESL students.
It isn't recent. My, now Junior, DC had 33 in his 5th grade class.
Arlington has below 10% of their population enrolled in public schools, Fairfax has more than 15% of its population enrolled in public schools. Arlington is a City and has more taxing authority than Fairfax, a County. Arlington is MUCH smaller so that it is easier to lobby and get the ear of a school board member. Those are all reasons why Arlington can afford to have smaller class sizes and has smaller class sizes.
Fairfax can't do anything about its size. It is politically unfeasible to become a City. The type of "smart growth" being done in and around Tyson's. Springfield, Mosaic District... should help decrease the % of the population that is school aged and increase the DINK population (smaller condo types of development with 2 bedrooms max does this). Fairfax has to have a property tax rate that is much higher than Arlington's to provide the same level of services, but that is hard to do.
Anonymous
09/13/2013 07:31
Subject: Re:Class sizes in FCPS- what is the real deal? (ES)
Anonymous wrote:They've been increasing the general ed class size ratio for the last several years to where it's now getting out of control. School capacity is one problem, but the other is really just class size. Does Arlington also have this needs based staffing ratio where ESL kids and FRM kids are counted almost as 2 students? They seem to do ok class size wise even in schools without a lot of FRM and ESL students.
It isn't recent. My, now Junior, DC had 33 in his 5th grade class.