Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Look up your school and its "At a Glance" report on the MCPS site:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/

Check the ESOL population % for the data so as to put the "names sound like" argument to rest that pps bring up.

Check the standardized testing scores if you are concerned.

The test results may give you insight as to whether or not everyone ESOL is "caught up and really chatty" by the time they are in 2nd grade or the MSA's roll around in 3rd grade. This may or may not be generally reflected.

Then decide to stay put or look elsewhere if you choose so.

Our Bethesda elem. listed a nearly 9% esol and >= 95% MSA pass rates. That said, farms rate is low.

Bingo!

Bingo what exactly?

FARMS rates being low is indicative of the economic earning power. That translates into better educated people. Schools will categorize any non-native English speaker in ESOL. I put English as my native tongue, even if it is not, because my kids do not need ESOL.

There is a big difference between a parent who is a Hispanic day laborer and another who is an Engineer from Spain...even if Spanish is the language spoken at their homes.

Besides the ESOL is only 9%...these are kids whose parents are foreign born and who can afford homes in Bethesda. Get real. These are mainly Europeans.

Yea I understand that
But you realize that low income here is about average elsewhere
So I think u cannot automatically assume household us undereducated and has little earning power potential

Low income here may be about average in nation...but cost of living here is one of the highest as well... so this is a very circular argument from someone who declared that their Bethesda ES has 9% ESOL...very low FARMS...95% MSA passing rates. Seriously, are you for real?

Anonymous wrote:i would definitely be concerned that more emphasis is placed on keeping the ESOL students at pace with the curriculum. Why would you even buy in an area like that (assuming you are a DCUM'er with HHI over 200K)?

Why would you assume that? $200,000 is double the median household income for Montgomery County.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Look up your school and its "At a Glance" report on the MCPS site:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/

Check the ESOL population % for the data so as to put the "names sound like" argument to rest that pps bring up.

Check the standardized testing scores if you are concerned.

The test results may give you insight as to whether or not everyone ESOL is "caught up and really chatty" by the time they are in 2nd grade or the MSA's roll around in 3rd grade. This may or may not be generally reflected.

Then decide to stay put or look elsewhere if you choose so.

Our Bethesda elem. listed a nearly 9% esol and >= 95% MSA pass rates. That said, farms rate is low.

Bingo!

Bingo what exactly?

FARMS rates being low is indicative of the economic earning power. That translates into better educated people. Schools will categorize any non-native English speaker in ESOL. I put English as my native tongue, even if it is not, because my kids do not need ESOL.

There is a big difference between a parent who is a Hispanic day laborer and another who is an Engineer from Spain...even if Spanish is the language spoken at their homes.

Besides the ESOL is only 9%...these are kids whose parents are foreign born and who can afford homes in Bethesda. Get real. These are mainly Europeans.

Yea I understand that
But you realize that low income here is about average elsewhere
So I think u cannot automatically assume household us undereducated and has little earning power potential

I teach ESOL in another district and the way students are referred to the ESOL teacher for testing is from the home language survey when they register for school. If they indicate that any other language is spoken at home other than English, they will be tested by an ESOL teacher. Most of our ESOL students are born in the U.S. to Spanish speaking parents. We do get some students from Latin America and the Dominican Republic too. It is true what a PP wrote about the parents' educational levels. The students that do the best academically are the ones whose parents are well educated in their home country. The same is true for non-ESOL students. Wasn't there a study done that showed that the #1 predictor of a student's success in school is the mother's educational level? We do mostly pull-out in our school with the beginners and some push-in with more advanced students. We pull students out of class for appr. 45 mins per day if they are beginners and 45 mins a few days a week if they are more advanced. Our principal spreads out the ESOL students in the early grades so that there is a good mix of beginners and high level students in each class. Once they get up to 4th grade and are departmentalized, the ESOL students are put in one class for scheduling purposes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Look up your school and its "At a Glance" report on the MCPS site:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/

Check the ESOL population % for the data so as to put the "names sound like" argument to rest that pps bring up.

Check the standardized testing scores if you are concerned.

The test results may give you insight as to whether or not everyone ESOL is "caught up and really chatty" by the time they are in 2nd grade or the MSA's roll around in 3rd grade. This may or may not be generally reflected.

Then decide to stay put or look elsewhere if you choose so.

Our Bethesda elem. listed a nearly 9% esol and >= 95% MSA pass rates. That said, farms rate is low.

Bingo!

Bingo what exactly?

FARMS rates being low is indicative of the economic earning power. That translates into better educated people. Schools will categorize any non-native English speaker in ESOL. I put English as my native tongue, even if it is not, because my kids do not need ESOL.

There is a big difference between a parent who is a Hispanic day laborer and another who is an Engineer from Spain...even if Spanish is the language spoken at their homes.

Besides the ESOL is only 9%...these are kids whose parents are foreign born and who can afford homes in Bethesda. Get real. These are mainly Europeans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ all kinds of assumptions in that post.

Not assumptions but generalizations. There can be some ESOL students who have truly just a language barrier. However the generalizations holds true with my experience in a Title 1 schools with > 80% ESOL.

And I will not try and be PC in an anonymous forum. OP can choose to do what she wants to do with this input. Getting a transfer is not going to be easy in MCPS. Her choices are limited to staying in the school and making sure that the kid is getting enriched instruction outside of school; hoping that her kid gets into HGC; changing her address and of course private school.

In MCPS the race lines, the language lines, the socio-economic lines are all coinciding. I am however not that arrogant to say that White and Asians are doing better because they are smarter. They are doing better simply because they are being provided more opportunities to succeed by their parents. In the cases where African Americans and Hispanic kids are thriving and excelling - they are also mostly coming from highly educated, middle class (or above) families.

Schools in Bethesda and Potomac are not doing well because the water there magically increases brain-power.

Yea cause they usually don't
W
T
F?
You do realize the same could be said about White folk as well
See these are the kinds of idiots I don't want my kid going to school with...

Since you do not have the basic reading comprehension required to understand my post...I did mention that race, language and socioeconomic lines are mostly coinciding in MCPS...which translated means that the racial groups that are not doing well, by and large, are also the ones where a large number of individuals who are at a lower socioeconomic strata, and probably also have language barriers.

It could very well be said about White folks too. And I would not want to send my child to a school if 80% of the kids came from a trailer park, had parents who are poorly educated, were in need of FARMS assistance, even if they were all white.

I think you have missed my point -- the way you said it -- most definitely makes it sound as if low income folks are usually black and hispanic and that it is an oddity if they are middle class...yes..that is how it comes across

The concern right now in MCPS is the poor performance of AA and Hispanic students...they are the ones who are not making strides. They are also more heavily represented in qualifying for FARMS.

School administrators worry about the poor performers during MSAs because those who perform poorly will hit more categories than those who do well. In the majority of cases, the student who does not make the grade will not only belong to low performing racial groups, but in all probabilities hit the ESOL and FARMS categories too.

Blacks and Hispanics are not oddities if they are middle class. However they have larger proportion/percentage of individuals within their racial group that are qualifying for FARMS and ESOL.

A lot of research is now showing that a major predictor of how ESOL students do in school (grades, grad rates) is the literacy level of their parents IN THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE. What really matters is the parent's reading level - not whether they can read English.

Someone who crunches the numbers for a local school system explained to me that MANY of the ESOL students in NOVA come from countries with very low literacy rates and that has a big impact on teaching and learning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ all kinds of assumptions in that post.

Not assumptions but generalizations. There can be some ESOL students who have truly just a language barrier. However the generalizations holds true with my experience in a Title 1 schools with > 80% ESOL.

And I will not try and be PC in an anonymous forum. OP can choose to do what she wants to do with this input. Getting a transfer is not going to be easy in MCPS. Her choices are limited to staying in the school and making sure that the kid is getting enriched instruction outside of school; hoping that her kid gets into HGC; changing her address and of course private school.

In MCPS the race lines, the language lines, the socio-economic lines are all coinciding. I am however not that arrogant to say that White and Asians are doing better because they are smarter. They are doing better simply because they are being provided more opportunities to succeed by their parents. In the cases where African Americans and Hispanic kids are thriving and excelling - they are also mostly coming from highly educated, middle class (or above) families.

Schools in Bethesda and Potomac are not doing well because the water there magically increases brain-power.

Yea cause they usually don't
W
T
F?
You do realize the same could be said about White folk as well
See these are the kinds of idiots I don't want my kid going to school with...

Since you do not have the basic reading comprehension required to understand my post...I did mention that race, language and socioeconomic lines are mostly coinciding in MCPS...which translated means that the racial groups that are not doing well, by and large, are also the ones where a large number of individuals who are at a lower socioeconomic strata, and probably also have language barriers.

It could very well be said about White folks too. And I would not want to send my child to a school if 80% of the kids came from a trailer park, had parents who are poorly educated, were in need of FARMS assistance, even if they were all white.

I think you have missed my point -- the way you said it -- most definitely makes it sound as if low income folks are usually black and hispanic and that it is an oddity if they are middle class...yes..that is how it comes across

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ all kinds of assumptions in that post.

Not assumptions but generalizations. There can be some ESOL students who have truly just a language barrier. However the generalizations holds true with my experience in a Title 1 schools with > 80% ESOL.

And I will not try and be PC in an anonymous forum. OP can choose to do what she wants to do with this input. Getting a transfer is not going to be easy in MCPS. Her choices are limited to staying in the school and making sure that the kid is getting enriched instruction outside of school; hoping that her kid gets into HGC; changing her address and of course private school.

In MCPS the race lines, the language lines, the socio-economic lines are all coinciding. I am however not that arrogant to say that White and Asians are doing better because they are smarter. They are doing better simply because they are being provided more opportunities to succeed by their parents. In the cases where African Americans and Hispanic kids are thriving and excelling - they are also mostly coming from highly educated, middle class (or above) families.

Schools in Bethesda and Potomac are not doing well because the water there magically increases brain-power.

Yea cause they usually don't
W
T
F?
You do realize the same could be said about White folk as well
See these are the kinds of idiots I don't want my kid going to school with...

Since you do not have the basic reading comprehension required to understand my post...I did mention that race, language and socioeconomic lines are mostly coinciding in MCPS...which translated means that the racial groups that are not doing well, by and large, are also the ones where a large number of individuals who are at a lower socioeconomic strata, and probably also have language barriers.

It could very well be said about White folks too. And I would not want to send my child to a school if 80% of the kids came from a trailer park, had parents who are poorly educated, were in need of FARMS assistance, even if they were all white.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Look up your school and its "At a Glance" report on the MCPS site:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/

Check the ESOL population % for the data so as to put the "names sound like" argument to rest that pps bring up.

Check the standardized testing scores if you are concerned.

The test results may give you insight as to whether or not everyone ESOL is "caught up and really chatty" by the time they are in 2nd grade or the MSA's roll around in 3rd grade. This may or may not be generally reflected.

Then decide to stay put or look elsewhere if you choose so.

Our Bethesda elem. listed a nearly 9% esol and >= 95% MSA pass rates. That said, farms rate is low.

Bingo!

Bingo what exactly?

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Look up your school and its "At a Glance" report on the MCPS site:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/

Check the ESOL population % for the data so as to put the "names sound like" argument to rest that pps bring up.

Check the standardized testing scores if you are concerned.

The test results may give you insight as to whether or not everyone ESOL is "caught up and really chatty" by the time they are in 2nd grade or the MSA's roll around in 3rd grade. This may or may not be generally reflected.

Then decide to stay put or look elsewhere if you choose so.

Our Bethesda elem. listed a nearly 9% esol and >= 95% MSA pass rates. That said, farms rate is low.

Bingo!

OP,

Look up your school and its "At a Glance" report on the MCPS site:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/

Check the ESOL population % for the data so as to put the "names sound like" argument to rest that pps bring up.

Check the standardized testing scores if you are concerned.

The test results may give you insight as to whether or not everyone ESOL is "caught up and really chatty" by the time they are in 2nd grade or the MSA's roll around in 3rd grade. This may or may not be generally reflected.

Then decide to stay put or look elsewhere if you choose so.

Our Bethesda elem. listed a nearly 9% esol and >= 95% MSA pass rates. That said, farms rate is low.

I know people who have had good experiences at high Farms/ high ESOL schools, and others who have had horrible experiences. First I think it's worth noting that 50-60% is different than 90% on both scores. If there's a sizable middle class population participating with mastery of the english language, I think things go much better, and the diversity of it can actually benefit all of the kids. If the school is almost entirely poor and non-english speaking (we're talking >90% in some cases), it really does present a barrier to learning for kids who come prepared to learn and who can, in some cases, already read in english above grade level. Our school is almost entirely all FARMS and ESOL, and we've decided not to send our kid because it's just too much work trying to figure out how to compensate for the basic social and learning opportunities that he won't have but that would be available to him at a more balanced/diverse school where the majority of kids arrive already fluent in the language of instruction, have a preschool background that has taught them how to behave in a classroom setting, and are already well on their way to mastering the concepts that will be introduced in the first years of school because their parents have been fostering learning at home from day one. I'm not talking Bethesda, but I am talking about a school that doesn't go much above the 50% mark on the FARMS or ESOL scale. Every school is different and every kid is different, I get it. But to pretend that an exceptionally high poverty rate and high ESOL rate won't impact the learning environment your child is in is probably wishful thinking. Numbers aren't everything, but they're not meaningless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ all kinds of assumptions in that post.

Not assumptions but generalizations. There can be some ESOL students who have truly just a language barrier. However the generalizations holds true with my experience in a Title 1 schools with > 80% ESOL.

And I will not try and be PC in an anonymous forum. OP can choose to do what she wants to do with this input. Getting a transfer is not going to be easy in MCPS. Her choices are limited to staying in the school and making sure that the kid is getting enriched instruction outside of school; hoping that her kid gets into HGC; changing her address and of course private school.

In MCPS the race lines, the language lines, the socio-economic lines are all coinciding. I am however not that arrogant to say that White and Asians are doing better because they are smarter. They are doing better simply because they are being provided more opportunities to succeed by their parents. In the cases where African Americans and Hispanic kids are thriving and excelling - they are also mostly coming from highly educated, middle class (or above) families.

Schools in Bethesda and Potomac are not doing well because the water there magically increases brain-power.

Of course because only kids in Bethesda and Potomac are doing well

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i would definitely be concerned that more emphasis is placed on keeping the ESOL students at pace with the curriculum. Why would you even buy in an area like that (assuming you are a DCUM'er with HHI over 200K)?

Geez, is that a requirement to joining the DCUM club, having at least $200k HHI?

Not the OP but at a HHI of $150k we had a difficult time dinging a SFH that did not stretch our means that was NOT zoned for an ES with a majority ESOL. It's not that easy to just avoid "an area like that."

Seriously-- it's called 'de-facto segregation'