So, not only do atheists and Christians have difficulty with debate, Christians have their problems too. Unfortunately, the Bible can't agree with itself. God blesses all believers by agreeing with them even when they disagree with each other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/25/transparency-regarding-meyer%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccommode%e2%80%9d-and-ministry/

Joyce has five houses under her ministries name. Living in those homes are her grown children. The minstry paid for the houses and the upkeep. Being a TV evangelist is very profitable and most of your expenditures are tax-exempt.

The lord provides for those who do his work.

Well my grandmother was a missionary. She did do his work. She took in neglected children without receiving any compensation. She collected clothes for the poor. She F'ed people from her kitchen, and I nice saw her wash the feet of a schizophrenic homeless woman. Granny also took part of her pitiful salary, she was a domestic worker, and tithe faithfully. Granny also had one of those prayer cloths from one of the earlier tv evangelist, reverend Ike. She listened to Kenny Copeland, Joyce Meyers, Billy Graham, the works. I tried in vain to stop her from sending her money to those crooks She Knew scripture better than the best, as she was constantly in prayer. Her bible was ragged from all the paper turning, dog earring, and personal writings. Grandmother's personal faith was unbreakable even as she endured one trial and tribulation after another.

Yes, my grandmother did what many would call the Lord's work. Please tell me what more could she had done PP, she died poor.

Matthew 6:19-21

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Treasures are simply things we value and want to have. Heavenly things are so much more valuable than earthly treasure. We ought to want heavenly things and labor for heavenly things and treasure heavenly things far more than earthly things. I believe that's the point of what Christ is saying. He isn't saying we should not plan for our future on the earth. He isn't saving we shouldn't have money, use money or save money. This is not a statement against having a nice house or car.

This is about WHAT'S MORE VALUABLE; what's more important - and what lasts longer! Heavenly things are so much more valuable than earthly treasure - we ought to want heavenly things and labor for heavenly things and treasure heavenly things far more than earthly things.

If earthly treasure is your priority; if money, possessions, status and earthly treasures get most of your attention, time and energy - Jesus says, you've got a big problem! The treasures of the earth do not last; they are subject to things like the moth, the rust, or the covetous work of thieves who break in and steal. The things of this earth have no permanence; no durability ... and we cannot take them with us. Therefore it makes no sense to devote your whole heart and life to something that will soon be gone.

The better way of life is - to store up for yourselves treasures in heaven. That means, invest your time and energy in something that will last. Work for money and use money wisely and plan as best you can for you and your family here on the earth. But let your main concern be the heavenly treasures which are not subject to decay, and cannot be stolen!

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, anyone selling anything about how you can get to heaven or avoid hell or get in god's graces is the lowest of the low. They do not care about you (or god), only the money that keeps piling into their bank accounts.

I completely agree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/25/transparency-regarding-meyer%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccommode%e2%80%9d-and-ministry/

Joyce has five houses under her ministries name. Living in those homes are her grown children. The minstry paid for the houses and the upkeep. Being a TV evangelist is very profitable and most of your expenditures are tax-exempt.

The lord provides for those who do his work.

Well my grandmother was a missionary. She did do his work. She took in neglected children without receiving any compensation. She collected clothes for the poor. She F'ed people from her kitchen, and I nice saw her wash the feet of a schizophrenic homeless woman. Granny also took part of her pitiful salary, she was a domestic worker, and tithe faithfully. Granny also had one of those prayer cloths from one of the earlier tv evangelist, reverend Ike. She listened to Kenny Copeland, Joyce Meyers, Billy Graham, the works. I tried in vain to stop her from sending her money to those crooks She Knew scripture better than the best, as she was constantly in prayer. Her bible was ragged from all the paper turning, dog earring, and personal writings. Grandmother's personal faith was unbreakable even as she endured one trial and tribulation after another.

Yes, my grandmother did what many would call the Lord's work. Please tell me what more could she had done PP, she died poor.

If God didn't want us to be poor, why did he make so many poor people?

In my opinion, anyone selling anything about how you can get to heaven or avoid hell or get in god's graces is the lowest of the low. They do not care about you (or god), only the money that keeps piling into their bank accounts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/25/transparency-regarding-meyer%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccommode%e2%80%9d-and-ministry/

Joyce has five houses under her ministries name. Living in those homes are her grown children. The minstry paid for the houses and the upkeep. Being a TV evangelist is very profitable and most of your expenditures are tax-exempt.

The lord provides for those who do his work.

I'm sorry, but this is a total crock of shit. If you believe in god, that's one thing. If you think god is interested in making sure they provide million dollar houses and expensive cars for people, over stopping starvation, rape, and abuse, then that's an extremely fucked up god. I can't fathom believing in a being like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/25/transparency-regarding-meyer%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccommode%e2%80%9d-and-ministry/

Joyce has five houses under her ministries name. Living in those homes are her grown children. The minstry paid for the houses and the upkeep. Being a TV evangelist is very profitable and most of your expenditures are tax-exempt.

The lord provides for those who do his work.

And how!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/25/transparency-regarding-meyer%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccommode%e2%80%9d-and-ministry/

Joyce has five houses under her ministries name. Living in those homes are her grown children. The minstry paid for the houses and the upkeep. Being a TV evangelist is very profitable and most of your expenditures are tax-exempt.

The lord provides for those who do his work.

It's a scam. Why are her adult children being subsidized by people's tithes, love offerings, donations etc and not paying taxes be UAE everything is placed in the church's name. And is she doing God's work or is she a Pharisee out for herself by using The Lord's name.

Anonymous wrote:http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/25/transparency-regarding-meyer%e2%80%99s-%e2%80%9ccommode%e2%80%9d-and-ministry/

Joyce has five houses under her ministries name. Living in those homes are her grown children. The minstry paid for the houses and the upkeep. Being a TV evangelist is very profitable and most of your expenditures are tax-exempt.

The lord provides for those who do his work.

Clearly God has provided for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yea -- God wants us to be broke
that is one of the dumbest thing I have heard.
How are we supposed to live if we are broke?
This is of course a different issue than if some people are con artists and deceiving.
It is funny how people lump everyone together.
It seems if someone is not ONLY preaching fire and brimstone then you are labeled prosperity preacher.
I for one do not want to be a baby Christian who has not grown beyond just not going to hell.
I want to learn how to apply the Word and see the working of the Holy Spirit everyday and in every aspect of my life.

You should read the Bible some time. Mark 10:17-22. You cannot be a follower of Christ on easy terms. You cannot serve God and Mammon. Eventually you have to make a choice.

I do read the Bible and the verses you refer to are not saying you cannot be wealthy and still be a "real" Christian.
Not serving mammon has to do with sowing to our flesh and not operating in the spirit.
We are called to die to the flesh every day.
But that is not just about "things", it is about how we see God, treat people, it is our love walk, etc

You need to understand that God does not want us to worship anything but Him.
So it is the worship of things, putting things before Him that is the issue.
You can live God and put him first and legitimately gain wealth.
For me, this whole conversation is less about money and more about how we see God.
Personally, I get frustrated with that old school, incorrect, idea that we are supposed to be broke, sick, and miserable just waiting to get to Heaven.
We will have trials, but Jesus came and OVERcame the world.
His word said that what he did we should be doing and MORE.
If we are to be set apart from the world how can we do it if our lives look like the world ... Miserable
I don't mean money, but our joy, our walk, our relationship with the Father.
sigh

If you want to follow me to Heaven, give away what you have and follow me. Being a Christian is not easy. Many Will Seek to Enter Heaven, But Few Will Enter. A lot of modern churches purporting to be Christian have perverted His word in order to gain adherents. Go back to the Word.

With your attitude, are you sure you'll be there?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yea -- God wants us to be broke
that is one of the dumbest thing I have heard.
How are we supposed to live if we are broke?
This is of course a different issue than if some people are con artists and deceiving.
It is funny how people lump everyone together.
It seems if someone is not ONLY preaching fire and brimstone then you are labeled prosperity preacher.
I for one do not want to be a baby Christian who has not grown beyond just not going to hell.
I want to learn how to apply the Word and see the working of the Holy Spirit everyday and in every aspect of my life.

You should read the Bible some time. Mark 10:17-22. You cannot be a follower of Christ on easy terms. You cannot serve God and Mammon. Eventually you have to make a choice.

I do read the Bible and the verses you refer to are not saying you cannot be wealthy and still be a "real" Christian.
Not serving mammon has to do with sowing to our flesh and not operating in the spirit.
We are called to die to the flesh every day.
But that is not just about "things", it is about how we see God, treat people, it is our love walk, etc

You need to understand that God does not want us to worship anything but Him.
So it is the worship of things, putting things before Him that is the issue.
You can live God and put him first and legitimately gain wealth.
For me, this whole conversation is less about money and more about how we see God.
Personally, I get frustrated with that old school, incorrect, idea that we are supposed to be broke, sick, and miserable just waiting to get to Heaven.
We will have trials, but Jesus came and OVERcame the world.
His word said that what he did we should be doing and MORE.
If we are to be set apart from the world how can we do it if our lives look like the world ... Miserable
I don't mean money, but our joy, our walk, our relationship with the Father.
sigh

If you want to follow me to Heaven, give away what you have and follow me. Being a Christian is not easy. Many Will Seek to Enter Heaven, But Few Will Enter. A lot of modern churches purporting to be Christian have perverted His word in order to gain adherents. Go back to the Word.

Anonymous wrote:So, if you are poor does that mean that you are not Godly, or you have offended God in some way. I ask this question because it is the antithesis to the prosperity gospel that is preached by these people.

I don't believe so. The Christian life is a journey. As you journey, you learn and apply the principles to your life and your life changes accordingly. I am the PP who posted the scriptures above and I posted them to show that, contrary to what some posters were saying. God certainly does not want us poor. Now, does that mean he wants us to pursue prosperity as an end in itself? I don’t think so but I do think that prosperity is a byproduct of following Jesus.
Matthew 6:31-34
31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Now the definition of what prosperity is – that’s a whole other thread
There are many not living out the fullness of what Christ planned for us because they simply do not know how to (Hosea 4: 6 (KJV) My people perish from a lack of knowledge) and sometimes just lack the faith.

So, if you are poor does that mean that you are not Godly, or you have offended God in some way. I ask this question because it is the antithesis to the prosperity gospel that is preached by these people.