I'm strict with the few things that I feel are important and I let the rest go. We are upper middle class and I find there are many parents who care more about form over substance. These are the kids who live in "perfect" homes and the parents cave into all their kids wants as long as they keep up appearances. In public with the parents, these kids "act" well behaved well that is until the parents turn their back.

My kids thankfully save their worst behavior thankfully for me. My kids teachers always tell me that my kids are so well behaved at school and are very respectful.

My kids don't make their bed (we don't enforce this), embarrass me in public often by some of the stupid things they say and do (they are middle school/elementary age) and sometimes look disheveled. They pick out their clothes each day. Our house is far from perfect. I am a full time working mom so I have chosen to pick my battles.

I work very hard with my kids academically and spend tons of time with them each evening. I supplement, which is required extra work, as I do not feel that their school does as adequate job teaching them. They are both top students. They are allowed very minimal TV/ pad time..maybe 1-2 hours per week. We do not have a game console.

Many of the issues that other parents report at this age have never been issues for us maybe due to life style priorities. My middle school child has never asked to wear make-up and if she did it would be for "dress up". We minimize contact with friends whose parents model poor behavior. For example, there are top students in my daughter's class who have parents who go drinking/ partying many weekends together. We stay away from these types.

Many people would criticize our model but it works for us.

Because different families have different ideals, values, ethics, rules and regulations they live by. What's good for you will never be good for everybody. THEY decide what they want for their kids. Not you. You decide for YOUR kids. Simple as that. As long as it's within the legal boundaries you got exactly NOTHING to say about anybody elses parenting. Or well...you can SAY something, but that's about it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all the PP's who insist on being smug and self-righteous the OP wasn't suggesting that parents should provide alcohol to the teenagers to enjoy their sex-filled party in the basement...please get over yourselves.

And OP is right - when you set arbitrary rules that are outside of what the others in their social set are doing without a healthy and logical discussion of the reasons and understanding then you are creating "forbidden fruit".

I hate to break it to the smug set who says their kids are following the rules because they set them - they are most likely not and are hiding it from you. Trust me - my 17 yr old DD and I have a very open and honest relationship and she tells me virtually everything that happens (probably not all, but most of it and usually on her own because she needs to "process" stuff and knows I will not freak out). The kids whose parents are strict and insist that their child would never do anything wrong or off limits are most often the ones right in their doing exactly what their parents have denied. I can easily give you 5-10 examples from last year alone.

Bottom line - talk to your kids, set limits (of course!), but also understand that they are teenagers and will screw up, be exposed to things and need guidance. Don't make the relationship so burdensome with shame and guilt that they won't come to you when they need you.

Why would I as a parent allow my kids to do something just because all the other kids are doing it? Isn't that the same lame excuse that kids use to excuse something bad they did = "well, so and so was doing it, too". Yes, we explain why the rules are the way they are to our kids. They are not just arbitrary rules we've pulled out of our asses.

If my kids want to wear some designer clothes because everyone else has it, I'd let them, but they'd just have to work to pay for it if it's expensive.

But if they wanted to do something that I thought was not age appropriate just because their friends were doing it? I think that's a lame way to parent.

If you let them do something because that is *your* personal rule, then fine, but to let them do it because their friends are doing it? Lame.

But isn't that why all middle schoolers tend to get iPhones and not just basic phones to reach parents if needed. Heck, many elementary school students have phones and electronics. This generation if full of lame parents. I am not being sarcastic. We really are trying to one up each mom/family/friend and in the process our kids are getting a very sad upbringing with little responsibility and very poor role models within their parents. Do you think any of our own parents would have given in as much as we all do?

I'm PP.. yes, exactly my point. But there are some parents that do get just basic phones for their MS kid. I'm not even 100% sure that when my 9 yr old reaches MS, DC will need a phone. And I agree, by allowing our kids to do whatever they want (because the other kids are doing it), and giving them all kinds of material things (because other kids have them), we are producing a generation of spoiled, entitled brats. And what kind of adults will they be... like their parents who are constantly playing the "keeping up with the joneses" game so they don't feel left out. Disgusting!

My DCs do have one hand held game each that they got for their bdays. But we don't have a Wii, Xbox, or what have you (I just recently discovered an Xbox is like $400 .. WHAT?). When DCs go to their friends house, they all have them, and they love playing on them. When they ask for it, we say, no, too expensive and you have an electronic game (and we have computers at home). *We* as parents have drawn the line at what is enough for them. We like giving them things that make them happy, of course, but we put a limit on the quantity and the $ amount because we don't want to spoil them... to OP, this might seem arbitrary. I mean, all the kids have an XBox/Wii, we should get them one, too...NOT!

As another PP stated, every parent has their one definition of what is age appropriate, rules and limits. Sheesh!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all the PP's who insist on being smug and self-righteous the OP wasn't suggesting that parents should provide alcohol to the teenagers to enjoy their sex-filled party in the basement...please get over yourselves.

And OP is right - when you set arbitrary rules that are outside of what the others in their social set are doing without a healthy and logical discussion of the reasons and understanding then you are creating "forbidden fruit".

I hate to break it to the smug set who says their kids are following the rules because they set them - they are most likely not and are hiding it from you. Trust me - my 17 yr old DD and I have a very open and honest relationship and she tells me virtually everything that happens (probably not all, but most of it and usually on her own because she needs to "process" stuff and knows I will not freak out). The kids whose parents are strict and insist that their child would never do anything wrong or off limits are most often the ones right in their doing exactly what their parents have denied. I can easily give you 5-10 examples from last year alone.

Bottom line - talk to your kids, set limits (of course!), but also understand that they are teenagers and will screw up, be exposed to things and need guidance. Don't make the relationship so burdensome with shame and guilt that they won't come to you when they need you.

Why would I as a parent allow my kids to do something just because all the other kids are doing it? Isn't that the same lame excuse that kids use to excuse something bad they did = "well, so and so was doing it, too". Yes, we explain why the rules are the way they are to our kids. They are not just arbitrary rules we've pulled out of our asses.

If my kids want to wear some designer clothes because everyone else has it, I'd let them, but they'd just have to work to pay for it if it's expensive.

But if they wanted to do something that I thought was not age appropriate just because their friends were doing it? I think that's a lame way to parent.

If you let them do something because that is *your* personal rule, then fine, but to let them do it because their friends are doing it? Lame.

But isn't that why all middle schoolers tend to get iPhones and not just basic phones to reach parents if needed. Heck, many elementary school students have phones and electronics. This generation if full of lame parents. I am not being sarcastic. We really are trying to one up each mom/family/friend and in the process our kids are getting a very sad upbringing with little responsibility and very poor role models within their parents. Do you think any of our own parents would have given in as much as we all do?

Who the heck lets their 13yr old wear make-up? My daughter is 13 and none of her friends wear any and she has never asked for any. That just seems way too young to say its forbidden fruit if you deny it.

Anonymous wrote:To all the PP's who insist on being smug and self-righteous the OP wasn't suggesting that parents should provide alcohol to the teenagers to enjoy their sex-filled party in the basement...please get over yourselves.

And OP is right - when you set arbitrary rules that are outside of what the others in their social set are doing without a healthy and logical discussion of the reasons and understanding then you are creating "forbidden fruit".

I hate to break it to the smug set who says their kids are following the rules because they set them - they are most likely not and are hiding it from you. Trust me - my 17 yr old DD and I have a very open and honest relationship and she tells me virtually everything that happens (probably not all, but most of it and usually on her own because she needs to "process" stuff and knows I will not freak out). The kids whose parents are strict and insist that their child would never do anything wrong or off limits are most often the ones right in their doing exactly what their parents have denied. I can easily give you 5-10 examples from last year alone.

Bottom line - talk to your kids, set limits (of course!), but also understand that they are teenagers and will screw up, be exposed to things and need guidance. Don't make the relationship so burdensome with shame and guilt that they won't come to you when they need you.

Why would I as a parent allow my kids to do something just because all the other kids are doing it? Isn't that the same lame excuse that kids use to excuse something bad they did = "well, so and so was doing it, too". Yes, we explain why the rules are the way they are to our kids. They are not just arbitrary rules we've pulled out of our asses.

If my kids want to wear some designer clothes because everyone else has it, I'd let them, but they'd just have to work to pay for it if it's expensive.

But if they wanted to do something that I thought was not age appropriate just because their friends were doing it? I think that's a lame way to parent.

If you let them do something because that is *your* personal rule, then fine, but to let them do it because their friends are doing it? Lame.

Anonymous wrote:I get what you are saying but sometimes a defined boundary is needed. This is especially true with certain personalities or certain stages of development. You NEVER know what its like to parent someone elses child.

This.

My kids are still under 10, but I can see how different kids need different boundaries.

Anonymous wrote:LOL...um, because we have certain rules and restrictions for our kids based on our beliefs and values? Personally, I like having a certain age for specific things so kids (1) have something to look forward to in the future, and (2) aren't exposed to adult things too early.

My kids are nearly all grown, except for one HS sophomore, and they're awesome--it wasn't "picking fights" but rather expectations that we put in place from a very early age.

+1

The good parents have boundaries and expectations. The bad parents are "friends" to their children and have no idea what a boundary is.

~ because the adult has an obsessed regarding the behavior.

Rules that are just made for the sake of rules are the ones that lead to problem.

Having limits that are intertwined with your morals, beliefs, life philosophy and values on the other hand create the fabric of the family. It doesn't make things 'forbidden fruit', I this just different families have different views and beliefs. the rules made sense within this framework and so it isn't a kid just wanting to rebel against being told no.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP, nope, my kids never sneaked around. They actually *gasp* followed our rules, and we were generally flexible overall.

HAHAHA..your kids followed your rules because you were flexible about your "rules". Sadly, waiting to hear about whatever daycare center your DS will be spraying with AK-47 clips..."Aidan Bleefner was a quiet sort of kid-no one can remember him do anything other than lighting coffee can filled with gunpowder on fire in the woods behind his family's 8 bedroom house in the Utopia Park neighborhood. His parents were really flexible about rules and when any one tried to suggest there might a problem with their son's behavior, the parents would scream: Fuck You, We're Being Flexible."

The fuck? I am not even really sure if you are advocating more or fewer rules with this rant?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to break it to the smug set who says their kids are following the rules because they set them - they are most likely not and are hiding it from you.

Oh FFS...I was waiting for that response. Yeah, my kids are grown now, just as open with us as they always were, and I knew where they were & what they were doing during their teen years. They were extremely busy with school, sports, and extracurriculars, and then we had dinner as a family and the kids did HW until bedtime. On the weekends, they had some friends over, or we did things as a family. It's impossible for some people to believe that you can set boundaries and kids/teens will actually abide by them.

I think the attitude quoted above is why some parents throw up their hands and figure, "Why bother?" My three siblings and I all followed our household rules, too (and we were raised atheist, as my own kids were, so there was no higher power threat or anything like that). I respected my parents then and now and didn't believe it was kind or just to push the envelope. I'm sure there are some personalities who wouldn't do well in that setting, but there are people like myself, my sibs, and our respective kids who love structure and a rules-driven framework. For the most part, we call ourselves geeks.

Unfortunately, you sound exactly like my parents. We have an amazing relationship and always have, and I have always talked to them about everything. They were not clueless uninvolved parents...quite the opposite actually, but they still have no idea what I (the poised straight A student, who was very involved in my church) was up to as a teen. They trusted me completely because we had such a great relationship, but I was not nearly as good as I seemed. They would drop me off at the mall with my hs friends, and unbeknownst to them, college friends would pick us up and we'd be up to no good until my parents came back to pick us up. We were really smart kids, and we were disturbingly good at hiding whatever we wanted to hide.

Anonymous wrote:

maril332 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on how the parents manage the forbidden fruit. For example we don't drink soda in our family. But, I make sure that if my kids want it they can occasionally have it at parties or if they have a craving. Soda isn't "bad" it's just something that we don't have in our house. I don't want soda -or anything else we "ban" - to turn into a forbidden fruit.

Make up isn't "bad" and there are appropriate types of make-up for different ages. An older teenager isn't going to wear bonnie bell lip gloss.

Same thing with boys & parties. If you are banning the party because there will be no adults, that is different because of "boys".

and this argument (soda) makes sense.

I remember growing up, my mom would not let us have sweets. Not in the house or out. So instead of us being kids who maybe had a piece of candy here and there, we became crazy when out of our parents view. Going to friends homes and pigging out on as much sugar as we could because we never had any at home. My kids are not raised like that. We have sweets at home to eat in moderation, so hopefully when I'm not around they aren't trying to shove as much in as fast as they can.

Not so fast -- even with sweets. There are real reasons why some sweets are a bad idea, and some kids are more sensitive than others. If you had a kid that spent 3h on a dentist chair to fix sugar damage to his teeth, or if you had the kid who melted down every time Blue Raspberry flavor was added to a piece of candy, you'd be pretty strict about candy as well.

Does a Sneaker Bar become a forbidden fruit to a kid with peanut allergies? You bet. My daughter's classmate was taken to the hospital in an ambulance because of a piece of candy swapped during lunchtime. Forbidden Fruit + Opportunity. But that does not stop virtually all adults around these kids from enforcing the NO Peanuts boundaries.

Why would a parent trying to protect their kids against a ringpop not get any support in the community?

To folks in support for allowing teenagers to have sex in the house -- do you have the same attitude towards alcohol? Drugs? Where do you draw the line?

And... how do you discuss the matter with your child's partner's parents? Do you know that they agree to your philosophy? Do you care if they don't?

you can't seriously be that dense. I think that medical and health issues override the nonchalant "you can't have sweets in this house because I said so". How dumb can a kid be that they would have to be rushed to the hospital because they ate something theyre allergic to? My DS is allergic to peanuts, yes there are times at restaurants something will contain nuts and look extremely appetizing to him. I think he realizes that not having his throat swell shut is a sweeter treat than the peanut fudge milkshake.

I think what the PP was saying on conformity is that sometimes parents think it's cool that children are bucking what their friends are doing, but in reality the parents are just happy that their child is like them in some respect and the child is really just conforming to the parent.

maril332 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on how the parents manage the forbidden fruit. For example we don't drink soda in our family. But, I make sure that if my kids want it they can occasionally have it at parties or if they have a craving. Soda isn't "bad" it's just something that we don't have in our house. I don't want soda -or anything else we "ban" - to turn into a forbidden fruit.

Make up isn't "bad" and there are appropriate types of make-up for different ages. An older teenager isn't going to wear bonnie bell lip gloss.

Same thing with boys & parties. If you are banning the party because there will be no adults, that is different because of "boys".

and this argument (soda) makes sense.

I remember growing up, my mom would not let us have sweets. Not in the house or out. So instead of us being kids who maybe had a piece of candy here and there, we became crazy when out of our parents view. Going to friends homes and pigging out on as much sugar as we could because we never had any at home. My kids are not raised like that. We have sweets at home to eat in moderation, so hopefully when I'm not around they aren't trying to shove as much in as fast as they can.

Not so fast -- even with sweets. There are real reasons why some sweets are a bad idea, and some kids are more sensitive than others. If you had a kid that spent 3h on a dentist chair to fix sugar damage to his teeth, or if you had the kid who melted down every time Blue Raspberry flavor was added to a piece of candy, you'd be pretty strict about candy as well.

Does a Sneaker Bar become a forbidden fruit to a kid with peanut allergies? You bet. My daughter's classmate was taken to the hospital in an ambulance because of a piece of candy swapped during lunchtime. Forbidden Fruit + Opportunity. But that does not stop virtually all adults around these kids from enforcing the NO Peanuts boundaries.

Why would a parent trying to protect their kids against a ringpop not get any support in the community?

To folks in support for allowing teenagers to have sex in the house -- do you have the same attitude towards alcohol? Drugs? Where do you draw the line?

And... how do you discuss the matter with your child's partner's parents? Do you know that they agree to your philosophy? Do you care if they don't?