Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 27 years old and ugly. I have been on zero dates, and agree that lots of men are rude/uncomfortable around me because they are afraid someone will think they are interested in me, which would be SO disgusting and embarassing to them. Those who say that it's just a matter of being confident don't get it. When you are average-to-pretty, the worst thing that might happen if you put yourself out there is that a guy will turn you down. When you are ugly, guys will go out of their way to shame you and punish you for not realizing that they are out of your league. Those who are willing to entertain the idea of being with an ugly woman do so because they assume that I would give lots of blow jobs/do anything they want sex-wise/be undemanding in bed, and when they realize that I actually dare to want to get to know them before putting out, they make it clear that I am not worth the effort.

I have been bullied or ignored since middle school. I much prefer ignored. People assume that I will be outgoing and funny. I am not allowed to be serious or introverted, because that's too high-maintenance for a fugly girl. I have only one male friend (gay) because all straight men avoid being seen with me, as it would lower their social standing. I tend to be friends with really beautiful women. I am drawn to them because I have always been fascinated by physically attractive people (a little unhealthy, I know), and because I don't feel competitive towards them the way average-to-pretty women often do. I will be the DUFF regardless of who I am with, so I may as well be friends with stunning women.

I am 5'6" and a size 20. I eat no gluten or corn or white rice. The only sweetener I ever use is honey. I eat almost exclusively whole, organic foods. I don't do as much cardio as I should. I do hike or walk for an hour 2-3 times per week. I have thin, fine hair that is rapidly thinning (have sought medical help, but I can't afford the recommended treatments). I have pale, freckly skin and small eyes. I am luckier than some, in that my skin is bad, but can be plastered over with sufficient quantities of makeup for special occasions. My nose is large, with a bump. I wear makeup and clothes that fit as well as I can find, but it's hard to find clothes that flatter my particular body shape (broad shoulders, small breasts, large hips and thighs). I work with kids, and they often ask me why I am fat, have those "owies" on my face, or when "the pretty teacher" will be back when my co-teacher is absent.

I was overweight and was ugly. Lost weight and got into the normal weight range and went up to just under less than average attractive. Who knows maybe if I had it in me if I got down to underweight I would move up to average.

Don't discount the overweight issue. Losing the weight will shift things around and help out some.

+ 1

I so agree with this advice. You are only 27 - that is so young! Do not give up on your dreams to date and/or get married and have children. Do whatever it takes to lose the weight and get in shape and make yourself more confident and attractive. I have several friends who did not lose the weight until their mid-40's and by then, they were so mad at themselves and they feel like life has passed them by. These were women who were not dating much and were sorrowful about not having a family, but they waited too long to lose the weight and join match.com, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Janice Ian wrote the all-time best song about ugly women:

"I learned the truth at 17 that love was meant for beauty queens and high school girls with clear skin smiles who married young and then retired."

I bet a lot of women on DCUM fit this description.

Do you mean Janis Ian? Segue into the Secret of Jewish Parenting thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My SIL says she looked like Ugly Betty growing up. She got contacts, styled her hair and became a lawyer. Now she is wealthy with a doting husband and children. I credit her parents with instilling her with confidence. To them, she was the most beautiful and smartest girl in the world.

I'm the ugly 35 year old poster. My parents and my husband think I'm beautiful and brilliant, and tell me so often. They're wrong (on both counts) by any objective standard. It's simply that they know and love me, and so view me through a different lens than a stranger would.

The issues with my appearance are not due to a lack of confidence, lack of an advanced degree (I have one), lack of a good career (I have one), or failure to do my hair/wear makeup/dress nicely. I'm just not an attractive person, period.

It could also be that your own perception of yourself is not as objective as you think. You define your looks as ugly and it sounds like a few people's comments have cemented that in your head. It could be that the mast majority of the population wouldn't think you were ugly. Your husband was attracted to you for you two to start dating. Different people define ugly differently so many may not see you as ugly at all. I can't think of a single person I know who I would consider to be ugly.

Sure, my perception of myself isn't objective. But it's not just been comments from a few people; it's been comments from many people, from childhood through adulthood. My husband barely said hello when we were first introduced by mutual friends. He spent all night talking to another woman, and I still tease him about that. The second time it was just him and I and our mutual friends (who were a couple), and he still didn't have anything to say to me. The third time we interacted was when I invited him to a holiday party my roommate and I were having. He came, got a little drunk, and we talked until 7am the next morning. THEN he was interested. The key was getting to know me, as it has been with a lot of people. They discount me at first, but things change once they get beyond my appearance. As I mentioned in a previous post, these days it's really only in the professional realm that it bothers me. And in that area, being a normal weight now has definitely helped.

I understand your point though, and agree with the perspective that there's a difference between being a physically unattractive person and an ugly human being. I am the former; I am not the latter.

Janice Ian wrote the all-time best song about ugly women:

"I learned the truth at 17 that love was meant for beauty queens and high school girls with clear skin smiles who married young and then retired."

I bet a lot of women on DCUM fit this description.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen plenty of "ugly" married people. To think that low self esteem doesn't impact how others see you is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. i wish there was a way to post a picture. I bet you are not as unattractive as you think.

But projecting self-confidence isn't just a choice like getting a new haircut. It's a personality trait. If you are normal-looking, then you can be shy, acerbic, outgoing, ditzy, pesimistic or assertive and plenty of people will take time to get to know you and appreciate who you are. If you are unattractive, you have to have natural charisma to overcome your appearance. People will not overlook an introverted personality or a snarky comment from an ugly girl, because we are obviously not worth getting to know. We get exactly 1 strike against us.

True, but if you fit the conventional definition of "pretty" and yet are either introverted or have a bitchy attitude, then you won't attract quality people into your life. You'll just attract assholes who are prepared to deal with your bad attitude/introverted-ness/low self-esteem for as long as it takes to get what they want from you - be it sex or something else. They aren't going to respect you more, or genuinely like you, just because you are "pretty". And if they do, it would probably be because they have serious self-esteem issues of their own.

Anonymous wrote:I've seen plenty of "ugly" married people. To think that low self esteem doesn't impact how others see you is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. i wish there was a way to post a picture. I bet you are not as unattractive as you think.

But projecting self-confidence isn't just a choice like getting a new haircut. It's a personality trait. If you are normal-looking, then you can be shy, acerbic, outgoing, ditzy, pesimistic or assertive and plenty of people will take time to get to know you and appreciate who you are. If you are unattractive, you have to have natural charisma to overcome your appearance. People will not overlook an introverted personality or a snarky comment from an ugly girl, because we are obviously not worth getting to know. We get exactly 1 strike against us.

Anonymous wrote:Dear Amazing "Ugly" Woman On This Thread,

You all sound amazing. I would love to be friends with you.

Thank you for your eloquent and humorous perspectives on something that people do not talk about. It is hard to get people to admit that there is not a "fix" for everything that is deemed by culture as being "unattractive".

Note: I do not personally believe that you "need" to "fix" these "unattractive" things. I wish that we could, instead, "fix" the social messaging that devalues people who are not considered attractive.

If all my friends were as confident and self aware as you all, I would consider myself very lucky indeed.

Signed,

Girl who has always been pretty by conventional standards

Beautifully put. The PP I quoted is right.

To all the "ugly" women here, I am so sorry about the cruelty you have endured. I'm aghast that a group of boys would publicly vote on who is the "ugliest girl in school", or someone would tell you "You hit every branch." I know you've probably been too hurt to believe me when I say this, but I'll say it anyway: attraction is so subjective and impossible to calculate that it really is impossible to measure beauty.

I can practically see you rolling your eyes with impatience over this - maybe you think I'm just another kind, well-meaning person who is telling you bs about self-esteem and "everyone is beautiful." But what I'm saying really is the truth. Not that "Everyone is beautiful", but "everyone is beautiful and ugly". You are going to be judged by people with wildly different ideas of what they find attractive. And this doesn't just apply to women who are in the middle of the conventional looks scale, even though people think they are the most likely ones to experience really diverse reactions. Men are attracted to things you wouldn't believe - hirsute women, really freckled women, super hair armpits, big noses, crooked teeth, small breasts, thick waists, round bellies, jiggly thighs, everything.

Just go onto your local Craigslist one day and look at the "casual encounters" section. You'll be surprised at what men like when they think nobody is looking.

Maybe you girls have had the misfortune to be surrounded by a very small and hive-minded group of men. Maybe you never learned to notice the signs that a man is attracted to you, because your negative self-image clouded your mind. Some of the purportedly "ugly" women in this thread are married and claim their husbands only saw "past" the exterior. Not at all! He saw the exterior and liked it. Men are visual creatures, like you admitted. If other men didn't like your exterior and refused to date you, why can't we say that your husbands asked you out because they liked the way you looked - and only afterwards discovered your equally pretty personalities?

Furthermore, if your husbands liked you, I find it hard to believe they are the only men who ever liked you. Like in this world of 7 billion people, you found the one single soul who was attracted to you. The fact is that you can't know what passed through the minds of all the men you've ever met. There is a chance that others were attracted to you, but for a whole host of reasons that had nothing to do with you - their own insecurities, wondering if you were taken, never finding the right moment - didn't ask you out.

Hugs to all of you. Nobody deserves to go through life feeling rejected or thinking themselves ugly.

Reading this thread was like a razor blade to my heart. Ouch. I've always been ugly, and I've always known it. I was ignored all through middle and high school. People have said horrifically mean things to me. I can still feel the humiliation like it was yesterday.

I'm really envious of the PPs upthread who seem to have made peace with it. I'm just not there. I feel guilty that my children look like me.

I posted earlier in this thread, but for some reason was thinking about it again.

I NEVER look good. Sometimes I look less bad than other times, and when I make an effort people can see that I made an effort, but I still never actually look good. When I look in the mirror to check myself before heading out, I do not look to see how good I look. I look to make sure I look appropriate, and that everything looks the way it should. That my bra strap is not showing, there isn't a random deodorant mark on my shirt, my fly is zipped, etc.

Also, as further proof that I've been ugly for a long time, there are VERY few pictures of me. And I had solid self-confidence as a kid. But if you look at my brother's bar mitzvah pictures, I'm in like two of them, and my photogenic cousins are in 20 of them, and we were all dancing around together. People just naturally exclude me. For my looks.

I've seen plenty of "ugly" married people. To think that low self esteem doesn't impact how others see you is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. i wish there was a way to post a picture. I bet you are not as unattractive as you think.

Anonymous wrote:I am 27 years old and ugly. I have been on zero dates, and agree that lots of men are rude/uncomfortable around me because they are afraid someone will think they are interested in me, which would be SO disgusting and embarassing to them. Those who say that it's just a matter of being confident don't get it. When you are average-to-pretty, the worst thing that might happen if you put yourself out there is that a guy will turn you down. When you are ugly, guys will go out of their way to shame you and punish you for not realizing that they are out of your league. Those who are willing to entertain the idea of being with an ugly woman do so because they assume that I would give lots of blow jobs/do anything they want sex-wise/be undemanding in bed, and when they realize that I actually dare to want to get to know them before putting out, they make it clear that I am not worth the effort.

I have been bullied or ignored since middle school. I much prefer ignored. People assume that I will be outgoing and funny. I am not allowed to be serious or introverted, because that's too high-maintenance for a fugly girl. I have only one male friend (gay) because all straight men avoid being seen with me, as it would lower their social standing. I tend to be friends with really beautiful women. I am drawn to them because I have always been fascinated by physically attractive people (a little unhealthy, I know), and because I don't feel competitive towards them the way average-to-pretty women often do. I will be the DUFF regardless of who I am with, so I may as well be friends with stunning women.

I am 5'6" and a size 20. I eat no gluten or corn or white rice. The only sweetener I ever use is honey. I eat almost exclusively whole, organic foods. I don't do as much cardio as I should. I do hike or walk for an hour 2-3 times per week. I have thin, fine hair that is rapidly thinning (have sought medical help, but I can't afford the recommended treatments). I have pale, freckly skin and small eyes. I am luckier than some, in that my skin is bad, but can be plastered over with sufficient quantities of makeup for special occasions. My nose is large, with a bump. I wear makeup and clothes that fit as well as I can find, but it's hard to find clothes that flatter my particular body shape (broad shoulders, small breasts, large hips and thighs). I work with kids, and they often ask me why I am fat, have those "owies" on my face, or when "the pretty teacher" will be back when my co-teacher is absent.

I was overweight and was ugly. Lost weight and got into the normal weight range and went up to just under less than average attractive. Who knows maybe if I had it in me if I got down to underweight I would move up to average.

Don't discount the overweight issue. Losing the weight will shift things around and help out some.

Anonymous wrote:I don't really know if I'm ugly but I'm 51 so I'm getting wrinkles, age spots on my face, a slight tire around my middle that I'm constantly battling, super thin hair that I have to keep short, a slightly crooked nose, yellowish teeth... I don't care that much though because I'm married and have kids and a good life. Sometimes I wonder if it impacts my career, but I try to dress nicely and focus on being competent and hard working.

You're way too young to give up on all that. I'm 48 and use Retin A and sunscreen. Keep battling the tire! Bleach your teeth!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My looks range from frumpy to decent looking depending my my hair styling, whether I am wearing a skirt, etc. it is frustrating how much nicer men, including male coworkers are to me when I wear a skirt and straighten my hair.

I honestly don't think this is gender specific. I'm sure if an experiment was done, regular men would be treated differently when they wore tailored suits and had a good haircut vs scraggly, messy hair and messy clothes.

My hair always looks neat and I wear acceptable clothes at all times. I'm talking about acceptable hair vs professionally styled and a nice pantsuit vs a cuter skirt outfit

Men do not face the same

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 27 years old and ugly. I have been on zero dates, and agree that lots of men are rude/uncomfortable around me because they are afraid someone will think they are interested in me, which would be SO disgusting and embarassing to them. Those who say that it's just a matter of being confident don't get it. When you are average-to-pretty, the worst thing that might happen if you put yourself out there is that a guy will turn you down. When you are ugly, guys will go out of their way to shame you and punish you for not realizing that they are out of your league. Those who are willing to entertain the idea of being with an ugly woman do so because they assume that I would give lots of blow jobs/do anything they want sex-wise/be undemanding in bed, and when they realize that I actually dare to want to get to know them before putting out, they make it clear that I am not worth the effort.

I have been bullied or ignored since middle school. I much prefer ignored. People assume that I will be outgoing and funny. I am not allowed to be serious or introverted, because that's too high-maintenance for a fugly girl. I have only one male friend (gay) because all straight men avoid being seen with me, as it would lower their social standing. I tend to be friends with really beautiful women. I am drawn to them because I have always been fascinated by physically attractive people (a little unhealthy, I know), and because I don't feel competitive towards them the way average-to-pretty women often do. I will be the DUFF regardless of who I am with, so I may as well be friends with stunning women.

I am 5'6" and a size 20. I eat no gluten or corn or white rice. The only sweetener I ever use is honey. I eat almost exclusively whole, organic foods. I don't do as much cardio as I should. I do hike or walk for an hour 2-3 times per week. I have thin, fine hair that is rapidly thinning (have sought medical help, but I can't afford the recommended treatments). I have pale, freckly skin and small eyes. I am luckier than some, in that my skin is bad, but can be plastered over with sufficient quantities of makeup for special occasions. My nose is large, with a bump. I wear makeup and clothes that fit as well as I can find, but it's hard to find clothes that flatter my particular body shape (broad shoulders, small breasts, large hips and thighs). I work with kids, and they often ask me why I am fat, have those "owies" on my face, or when "the pretty teacher" will be back when my co-teacher is absent.

Amen, sister.
I had one little girl ask one time, "Why do you look like that?" I told her "This is just how I came out." She replied, "Oh .... I'm sorry."

You are probably insulin-resistant. Metformin can fix that and you will lose weight. Get diagnosed. Treatment is $2/month for the pills.

I don't really know if I'm ugly but I'm 51 so I'm getting wrinkles, age spots on my face, a slight tire around my middle that I'm constantly battling, super thin hair that I have to keep short, a slightly crooked nose, yellowish teeth... I don't care that much though because I'm married and have kids and a good life. Sometimes I wonder if it impacts my career, but I try to dress nicely and focus on being competent and hard working.