Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

I said 10, you could make it less as I mentioned. MAybe just never have an adult alone with a child. I am a scout leader and they won't ever let an adult be alone with a kid under 18 unless it is your kid. This doesn't just protect the kid, it protects you because sometimes an accusation is all it takes to ruin your reputation. I said a higher number like 10 because I was struck by the fact that this creep used lunch bunches to tickle and start breaking down barriers with the kid.

In my view, MCPS needs to have some policy about boundaries between teachers and kids. That policy needs to be taught to all the kids, teachers, and parents regularly. An ES child needs to know that it is not alright for a teacher to tickle or make them uncomfortable. The kids, teachers and parents also need to know what to do if something happens. I am torn a bit because my kid used to hug all the teachers back in early ES, so I hate to go into a draconian set of rules, but after what has happened in the catholic church and scouting organizations, I think you have to take this seriously.

Also, in my line of work, if someone even casually mentions some form of harassment or unethical behavior, I am trained to report it. That report then has to be investigated. My guess is that MCPS does not do any training on this topic. I think any organization that works with kids needs to take child abuse seriously and have specific policies and training. To me, it is incompetent not to have a detailed program on how to handle these cases. I don't think MCPS has this, but I welcome information that I am wrong.

The Scouting policy is excellent. It calls for always being "two deep" in adults when any kid is around. That is to say, no adult is ever alone with a child. There must always be two adults present. This would not be difficult at a school, as teachers could just double up with their next door colleague before and after school or during lunch. Besides, at many middle schools, appointments are required for children to come in for extra help before or after school because they require a hall pass to get to the classroom.

Also, at our child's camp, the parents, counselors and campers are explicitly told that it is not permitted for camp counselors to be in touch with campers outside of camp. No contact by facebook, email, text or whatever unless the parents are explicitly asked for permission. This should be true for all MCPS teachers.

Finally, your point about training is very important. There have been many student on student sexual harassment issues at Eastern Middle School in the last several years. These have not been taken seriously. These incidents have not triggered any additional training on harassment or reporting for teachers or administration. This is not the way sexual harassment/abuse should be treated. Any reports should immediately trigger review of standard policies and additional teaching/training for all.

You'd think we were living in the 50's, when child predators were a less openly acknowledged problem. Nowadays, every few weeks you hear a story about a teacher or a coach or someone in power who took advantage of a student's vulnerability. And because we live in a world where this problem is very familiar to us all, beyond just policies, doesn't common sense kick in and don't red flags go up everywhere when a teacher, who has been the subject of multiple parent complaints etc., gets CAUGHT locking the door from the inside and has to be counseled about not tickling the students? For the love of god, it doesn't take a policy to put the other adults on alert that something is seriously wrong. It doesn't require a policy to do the right thing and step up to protect the children under your care. And if the principal didn't have that basic instinct, and if her superiors were relatively uninterested in taking meaningful action or investigating, this is on them. Not just MCPS and its ineffective policy, but on the adults who chose to take a passive approach and risk the well-being of the children lest they rock the boat by investigating this guy at the first sign of questionable conduct. Every act of abuse that happened after questionable conduct on school grounds was witnessed or reported is something they get to own for the rest of their lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

I said 10, you could make it less as I mentioned. MAybe just never have an adult alone with a child. I am a scout leader and they won't ever let an adult be alone with a kid under 18 unless it is your kid. This doesn't just protect the kid, it protects you because sometimes an accusation is all it takes to ruin your reputation. I said a higher number like 10 because I was struck by the fact that this creep used lunch bunches to tickle and start breaking down barriers with the kid.

In my view, MCPS needs to have some policy about boundaries between teachers and kids. That policy needs to be taught to all the kids, teachers, and parents regularly. An ES child needs to know that it is not alright for a teacher to tickle or make them uncomfortable. The kids, teachers and parents also need to know what to do if something happens. I am torn a bit because my kid used to hug all the teachers back in early ES, so I hate to go into a draconian set of rules, but after what has happened in the catholic church and scouting organizations, I think you have to take this seriously.

Also, in my line of work, if someone even casually mentions some form of harassment or unethical behavior, I am trained to report it. That report then has to be investigated. My guess is that MCPS does not do any training on this topic. I think any organization that works with kids needs to take child abuse seriously and have specific policies and training. To me, it is incompetent not to have a detailed program on how to handle these cases. I don't think MCPS has this, but I welcome information that I am wrong.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/sexualharassment/
Do you honestly think that in a system as large as MCPS, no policy exists?

Thanks. That looks like a vague and weak policy to me. There is one sentence on protecting people who report abuse against retaliation and nothing about the ability of people to report anonymously. I don't see any guidelines for what a principal or other employee should do if someone raises a concern to them or they hear of a concern anonymously. You can infer that the principal should call the office of Diversity or Student Affairs, but it looks like the principal can decide whether the matter warrants more attention. I personally would require all concerns be reported. I would not give employees in the school a choice. That is part of the problem with this case. I think they need a sexual harrassment hotline and state that they take this seriously and will investigate and reach a resolution on all matters. I also think the policy needs to mention the police as an option if a crime is suspected or witnessed. Next, there is nothing about controls about how employees and students can interact. Can the employee and an single student be in a room after school? Can an employee visit a student's house without the parents present or take a student to their house? What about training and awareness. Should teachers be trained every few years to re-enforce the rules and cover the grey areas. What about training for parents and students. Do ES kids know what is inappropriate and how to handle it? Should parents be made more aware of the policy. I agree that parents need to speak to their kids no matter what the school system does, but the school system should be proactive because these cases impact the school system as well. Finally, I think MCPS should come to grips with their culture. They don't like to expose warts so they keep unflattering issues away from the public. They try to limit and control the policy debate with a "we know best" attitude. I sense that they don't trust parents and just want to work on their own agenda without being bothered. I have no doubt that as an organization they don't support child abuse, but at the same time, they need to be more open to the public and parents. They need to stop worrying about how things look and start building a better relationship with parents and the community. For me, the relationship is broken.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

I said 10, you could make it less as I mentioned. MAybe just never have an adult alone with a child. I am a scout leader and they won't ever let an adult be alone with a kid under 18 unless it is your kid. This doesn't just protect the kid, it protects you because sometimes an accusation is all it takes to ruin your reputation. I said a higher number like 10 because I was struck by the fact that this creep used lunch bunches to tickle and start breaking down barriers with the kid.

In my view, MCPS needs to have some policy about boundaries between teachers and kids. That policy needs to be taught to all the kids, teachers, and parents regularly. An ES child needs to know that it is not alright for a teacher to tickle or make them uncomfortable. The kids, teachers and parents also need to know what to do if something happens. I am torn a bit because my kid used to hug all the teachers back in early ES, so I hate to go into a draconian set of rules, but after what has happened in the catholic church and scouting organizations, I think you have to take this seriously.

Also, in my line of work, if someone even casually mentions some form of harassment or unethical behavior, I am trained to report it. That report then has to be investigated. My guess is that MCPS does not do any training on this topic. I think any organization that works with kids needs to take child abuse seriously and have specific policies and training. To me, it is incompetent not to have a detailed program on how to handle these cases. I don't think MCPS has this, but I welcome information that I am wrong.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/sexualharassment/
Do you honestly think that in a system as large as MCPS, no policy exists?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

Yes, the suggested "10 rule" is just stupid.

When I worked with kids, however, the door was always open, and there were other adults around - not necessarily in the same room, but in other rooms in the same hallway.

common sense - And sadly, it's more important for male teachers to be extra cautious b/c of the sweeping generalizations people make.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

How about you are required to leave your door open at all times? No locking of classroom doors egen students are inside?

I'm the HS teacher. Our classroom doors are never closed, let alone locked, when we provide help after school or at lunch to students either one-on-one or in small groups. I reiterate that a recommendation like the one above is untenable. That said, I have no experience in ES and therefore can't comment about such a policy there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

I said 10, you could make it less as I mentioned. MAybe just never have an adult alone with a child. I am a scout leader and they won't ever let an adult be alone with a kid under 18 unless it is your kid. This doesn't just protect the kid, it protects you because sometimes an accusation is all it takes to ruin your reputation. I said a higher number like 10 because I was struck by the fact that this creep used lunch bunches to tickle and start breaking down barriers with the kid.

In my view, MCPS needs to have some policy about boundaries between teachers and kids. That policy needs to be taught to all the kids, teachers, and parents regularly. An ES child needs to know that it is not alright for a teacher to tickle or make them uncomfortable. The kids, teachers and parents also need to know what to do if something happens. I am torn a bit because my kid used to hug all the teachers back in early ES, so I hate to go into a draconian set of rules, but after what has happened in the catholic church and scouting organizations, I think you have to take this seriously.

Also, in my line of work, if someone even casually mentions some form of harassment or unethical behavior, I am trained to report it. That report then has to be investigated. My guess is that MCPS does not do any training on this topic. I think any organization that works with kids needs to take child abuse seriously and have specific policies and training. To me, it is incompetent not to have a detailed program on how to handle these cases. I don't think MCPS has this, but I welcome information that I am wrong.

What about video cameras in the classrooms?

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the teachers who actually cared about these kids are feeling really awful that they didn't do more. I can't even imagine how I would feel if I had reported this guy and my reports had been treated as non-serious. Shouldn't the principal have reported these things to someone higher on the food chain? And if she did, how on earth could MCPS continue to let this dirtbag have access to these kids without conducting a thorough investigation and informing every single parent with a child enrolled at the school what was going on? Tickling incident = message home to all parents while teacher is on unpaid leave pending outcome of investigation. Period. The idea that Starr has now given the BOE new recommendations for protocol for dealing with suspect behavior is so entirely inadequate. All we're hearing from MCPS is that this predator is no longer employed with MCPS and that they take this seriously. Well yeah, we all take this seriously. It's incredibly serious. And as for terminating his employment, he's in jail, so it's not like MCPS has taken bold action in that regard. Does the principal still have a job? Does Bronda Mills still have a job? While Starr is out hitting the trails talking about policies and closing the achievement gap, our kids are being abused in his schools by his employees and the people who let it happen continue to be in charge of protecting our kids.

This is exactly how I feel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

How about you are required to leave your door open at all times? No locking of classroom doors egen students are inside?

I suspect the teachers who actually cared about these kids are feeling really awful that they didn't do more. I can't even imagine how I would feel if I had reported this guy and my reports had been treated as non-serious. Shouldn't the principal have reported these things to someone higher on the food chain? And if she did, how on earth could MCPS continue to let this dirtbag have access to these kids without conducting a thorough investigation and informing every single parent with a child enrolled at the school what was going on? Tickling incident = message home to all parents while teacher is on unpaid leave pending outcome of investigation. Period. The idea that Starr has now given the BOE new recommendations for protocol for dealing with suspect behavior is so entirely inadequate. All we're hearing from MCPS is that this predator is no longer employed with MCPS and that they take this seriously. Well yeah, we all take this seriously. It's incredibly serious. And as for terminating his employment, he's in jail, so it's not like MCPS has taken bold action in that regard. Does the principal still have a job? Does Bronda Mills still have a job? While Starr is out hitting the trails talking about policies and closing the achievement gap, our kids are being abused in his schools by his employees and the people who let it happen continue to be in charge of protecting our kids.

Anonymous wrote:MCPS strikes me as a very shoddy organization. The teachers in our school have been great, so don't look at this as an indictment on teachers. The central office seems either incompetent or just self-absorbed. In the past few months, we have heard about a lawsuit around a principal who locked kids in a closet and performed other abuses and intimidation against teachers. The suit was settled out of court, but the stench is still in the air. The principal still has his job. We also know of a case where a principal stole money from kids accounts in a work program. MCPS is now hiding behind lawyers on this one and has no comment. One nice comment might be "Here is your money folks, we are sorry". This sex abuse case is the latest. I am sure it will only get heard in public because the police and legal system control it now. You can bet if this was handled internally, MCPS would just let the guy go and tell everyone that they can't comment on employee matters. The fact that some teachers raised concerns and nothing was done is appalling. What is going on with this expensive school system?

I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

Hadn't heard about those other incidents. Crazy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

I think they mean in a room with no windows, doors shut, even locked. Just sitting with a kid in a classroom, open to whomever passes by, is fine.

Anonymous wrote:I personally think we should not have teachers in a room alone with kids unless there is more than say 10 kids in the room. If there is < 10 for a lunch bunch or something, then two teachers need to be in the room. If you want a different number then 10, then that is fine.

HS teacher here. Your recommendation is totally untenable. How would we be able to work with students needing help during lunch and after school? Wait till 10 need it?

This is awful. Why were the other teachers complaints not taken seriously??