Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 14:36     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
^^^ sorry, iPad deciding to correct me but I think you get it.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 14:36     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:Just theoretically, what if your son had a bleeding disorder or similar medical contraindication to circumcision. Do the Jewish "must circumcize to be Jewish" posters make an exception? Or would that boy not be Jewish?


Judaism has exceptions for health...some babies can't do it at 8 days old, it's fine. Some are born without foreskin.

So if hu care to k oe the answer the yes, there are always health exceptions in every Jewish tradition/law. Like pregnant women dont fast on yom kippur.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 13:47     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh, oh. The anti circ crazies have struck again. Pretty soon they'll argue that we shouldn't cut the umbilical cord because - gasp! - the baby might remember and it would hurt.



You may not know this, but the umbilical cord doesn't have nerves. The foreskin, on the other hand, is filled with thousands of nerve endings. And I suppose you think Europeans are crazy? Because the large majority doesn't circumcise and views the practice as unnecessary and harmful.


I don't view Europeans - or anyone else - who choose not to circumcise as "crazy." Who I do view as crazy? People that are so obsessed with my decision - that's right - MY decision - as to whether or not to circ. It's none of your business. Your sheer hysteria suggests you people are crazy. If you just kept your mouths shut and went about your business no one would care what you did. Same with the pro/anti-abortion debate; breastfeeding debate; pacifier debate; feeding at 4 months vs. exclusive breastfeeding for 17 years debate. No one cares if you don't want to have an abortion, refuse to supplement with formula, refuse to sully your kid's mouth with a pacifier, refuse to allow real food to touch his lips until he is 2 years old. What people care about is when you tell everyone else how stupid they are for not making the same decision as you. Just STFU.


My point was that many, many Europeans hold the same critical views of circumcision that are voiced here. Several countries have considered outlawing it. Many Europeans will in fact say that they consider the practice abusive if they find themselves in a discussion about it. Do you generally consider people who engage in online discussions of controversial topics - political or cultural - to be crazy? Because that's what's going on here. Not some "obession with your child's genitals".
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 13:02     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:Just theoretically, what if your son had a bleeding disorder or similar medical contraindication to circumcision. Do the Jewish "must circumcize to be Jewish" posters make an exception? Or would that boy not be Jewish?


Jewish law actually explicitly deals with this. But I am far (far far far) from an authority in Jewish law, so if you want to know more, you can either Google it yourself, or ask an authority.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 12:41     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh, oh. The anti circ crazies have struck again. Pretty soon they'll argue that we shouldn't cut the umbilical cord because - gasp! - the baby might remember and it would hurt.



You may not know this, but the umbilical cord doesn't have nerves. The foreskin, on the other hand, is filled with thousands of nerve endings. And I suppose you think Europeans are crazy? Because the large majority doesn't circumcise and views the practice as unnecessary and harmful.


I don't view Europeans - or anyone else - who choose not to circumcise as "crazy." Who I do view as crazy? People that are so obsessed with my decision - that's right - MY decision - as to whether or not to circ. It's none of your business. Your sheer hysteria suggests you people are crazy. If you just kept your mouths shut and went about your business no one would care what you did. Same with the pro/anti-abortion debate; breastfeeding debate; pacifier debate; feeding at 4 months vs. exclusive breastfeeding for 17 years debate. No one cares if you don't want to have an abortion, refuse to supplement with formula, refuse to sully your kid's mouth with a pacifier, refuse to allow real food to touch his lips until he is 2 years old. What people care about is when you tell everyone else how stupid they are for not making the same decision as you. Just STFU.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 12:29     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Just theoretically, what if your son had a bleeding disorder or similar medical contraindication to circumcision. Do the Jewish "must circumcize to be Jewish" posters make an exception? Or would that boy not be Jewish?
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 12:06     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's not "so sad", pp. Who are you crying for? My two beautiful Jewish sons? Please. Take your pity elsewhere.


I note that you didn't quote the previous message. that would be because it said that the mother was shaking the whole time and the father was as white as a ghost. They were clearly upset about the procedure and had mixed feelings about it. So yes, it's sad. I also think it's sad that the baby has his penis cut and scarred in the name of religion, but that's not what I was clearly commenting on.


I'm the same poster! My point is that it's a very tough day for new parents. It's scary and emotional- it's overwhelming to realize that you are doing what Jews around the world have been doing for thousands of years. I never for once had mixed feelings about it, absolutely never. We are Jews. We circumcise. It's not up for debate!!!

My boys are incredible kids, with access to amazing education, in a happy home with two loving parents. There are children living in poverty in drug addicted homes. Be sad for them.

I'm also the same poster who said that if I knew a Jewish friend didn't circ her son, I'd seriously question the friendship.


You realize you are contradicting yourself, don't you?
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 11:11     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:Oh, oh. The anti circ crazies have struck again. Pretty soon they'll argue that we shouldn't cut the umbilical cord because - gasp! - the baby might remember and it would hurt.



You may not know this, but the umbilical cord doesn't have nerves. The foreskin, on the other hand, is filled with thousands of nerve endings. And I suppose you think Europeans are crazy? Because the large majority doesn't circumcise and views the practice as unnecessary and harmful.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 11:06     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's not "so sad", pp. Who are you crying for? My two beautiful Jewish sons? Please. Take your pity elsewhere.


I note that you didn't quote the previous message. that would be because it said that the mother was shaking the whole time and the father was as white as a ghost. They were clearly upset about the procedure and had mixed feelings about it. So yes, it's sad. I also think it's sad that the baby has his penis cut and scarred in the name of religion, but that's not what I was clearly commenting on.


I'm the same poster! My point is that it's a very tough day for new parents. It's scary and emotional- it's overwhelming to realize that you are doing what Jews around the world have been doing for thousands of years. I never for once had mixed feelings about it, absolutely never. We are Jews. We circumcise. It's not up for debate!!!

My boys are incredible kids, with access to amazing education, in a happy home with two loving parents. There are children living in poverty in drug addicted homes. Be sad for them.

I'm also the same poster who said that if I knew a Jewish friend didn't circ her son, I'd seriously question the friendship.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 10:29     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Oh, oh. The anti circ crazies have struck again. Pretty soon they'll argue that we shouldn't cut the umbilical cord because - gasp! - the baby might remember and it would hurt.

Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 10:08     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:It's not "so sad", pp. Who are you crying for? My two beautiful Jewish sons? Please. Take your pity elsewhere.


I note that you didn't quote the previous message. that would be because it said that the mother was shaking the whole time and the father was as white as a ghost. They were clearly upset about the procedure and had mixed feelings about it. So yes, it's sad. I also think it's sad that the baby has his penis cut and scarred in the name of religion, but that's not what I was clearly commenting on.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 07:33     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:Throughout history of anti semitism, pogroms, holocaust, the inquisition, etc we tried to assimilate as much as possible, but there is one thing that is universal to all secular Jews and that's circumcision.


I don't think that circumcision is universal to all secular Jews (or indeed all any Jews), given that half of Jews don't have penises.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2013 07:20     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The only way it would come up is if someone asked for a rec for a mohel and the person said, "We didn't circumcise so I don't have one."

It's telling because a bris is the covenant between man and g-d, it's a must, an absolute for us. I can't help but jump to assumptions about this person. Are they pro-Israel? Are they supportive of Jewish causes around the world? Are they doing their part to keep Judiasm alive in the US, where it is currently dying? If the answer is no to these questions, no I would not associate with that person.

Did I like sitting there while my two DSs had the procedure while all of my family and friends ate lox and bagel and wishes us mazel tov? Hell no. I was shaking the whole time and my husband was white as a ghost.



So sad.


+1
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2013 22:22     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
It's not "so sad", pp. Who are you crying for? My two beautiful Jewish sons? Please. Take your pity elsewhere.
Anonymous
Post 07/14/2013 22:21     Subject: Has anyone done a Brit Shalom ceremony instead of a bris/circumcision for their baby boy?
21:49- I have friends with kids who are uncircumsized. I was changing my 2 yr old by the pool last week and one of my closest new mommy friends who is Vietnamese joked and said "so that's what a circumsized penis looks like". She had honestly never seen one (we joked about her never sleeping with a Jewish guy?!!). Non-Jewish people can do whatever they want and more power to 'em. I don't want to know and I don't care. I don't preach the medical benefits or the cultural stigmatism. When I read about this topic, my response is always, "I'm Jewish, yes my children are circumsized".