I think you should stay in a hotel and tell your sister and BIL that " you can't guarantee that your kids will obey their rules 100% of the time and you don't want to stress them out." Then take your kids to the museum see your sis for dinner and get back to the hotel to "put the kids to bed" and have fun jumping on the bed and watch tv! Repeat the next day with different daytime activity.

I feel awful for your niece sounds like she can't win from either parent's new family. She is probably going to be one messed up person. Your sister's kids will also be messed up.

I have relatives that were strict, mean and racists as well but not richer than us. But, they always insisted we stay at their house. My dad was too cheap to stay in a hotel and didn't see them as all that bad. Fast forward 25 plus years. Their kids are racist and narcissistic like their parents, I cut off ties with them on my own as soon as my parents divorced. Also, my dad now can't stand his sister and finally sees what I saw since I was 5 yo.

omg, OP, why are you getting involved with the gossip? Who cares what your sister told your mom? Focus on the important matters here--no reason to defend yourself or engage in the drama.

OP here. Thank you for the comments. I just got off the phone with my mom and it turns out that my sister complained to her that we let my 1YO DD jump in her DS' crib. Now, let me tell you what happened - my DD was saying she wanted to get in his crib - she likes to pretend she's a baby, it's fun for her, we do it a lot at my DH's sister's house, etc. I turned to my sister and said, "Is it okay if she gets in his crib?" She said SURE! So I hoisted DD into his crib, and she laughed and played and, yes, there might have been some jumping too -- but I don't know what my sister's concern was. My DD weighs about 18 pounds (way less than her DS), I can't imagine that some slight jumping in the crib would have caused any problems. And if she was uneasy with it, why did she tell me it was okay for DD to play in his crib? And if she was uneasy with the jumping, why didn't she say, "Oh, she can play in there, but I'd prefer it if she didn't jump?" Oh, and it was all of 3 minutes that my DD was in the crib before we all went to another room to play.

I've read through all these replies, and honestly, OP, I think you should stay in touch and continue the visits (but make sure your kids know the rules and stay on them so they don't "get in trouble"). I also think you should be frank with your sister and BIL when you see the inappropriate parenting. Don't sugarcoat or cloak it in some research crap. Your little nephew wet his bed and was being yelled at and made to say sorry? "Wow, sis, that was mean. You know he has no control over that, right?" BIL is screaming at his toddler? "Hey, do you always overract like that? He's a year old. How about showing him what he's SUPPOSED to do instead of yelling? You're just scaring him." The racism issue needs to be addressed, too, but I think you know that already--that can be an adults conversation where you just tell them you obviously have different beliefs and would appreciate it if they don't bring that up around your kids. Unfortunately, people have the right to be racist. I grew up with some racist relatives and my parents made sure that my sister and I knew they were wrong and to ignore their comments. Of course, the relatives were all ancient and I guess my parents knew there was no changing them.

Absolutely call them out. Sure they will roll their eyes. They will probably criticize your parenting as well. But don't let them think that you agree with what's going on. This is your SISTER. Let her be pissed at you. Let her not take your calls. Big deal. She'll get over it. She needs to know that you think she's a shitty parent (at these moments). If that's as far as it goes, and they don't change, then you've done what you can. But standing by and letting it happen tells them that you approve/agree/don't see anything wrong with it.

I have been on the opposite end, with my sister and her family kind of rolling their eyes at the "strict diet" I have my kids on. We're vegetarians (although we allow our kids meat if they ask for it--but they don't anymore) and I try to stay away from juice and sugary snacks and foods. Yeah, my sister has called me out on that. I know she doesn't agree--she doesn't feed her kids crap 24/7 but they definitely drink soda, eat cheetos and oreos, etc. We fought about it, we got mad at each other, and we GOT OVER IT. I relax my rules a ltitle when we're together and I am well aware of her opinions. Her opinions DO actually matter to me, even though I think she's wrong, and I suspect your sister has some value of your opinion too.

Dealing with the stepdaughter, wow, that's sad. I would call that out too, maybe while it's happening so at least the kid knows someone is sticking up for her. Maybe push for that visit and offer to call the mom yourself (then they would have to say why they really don't want her to come). Maybe even suggest that she's such a problem, they deserve "a break" from her or something and you can give her some TLC.

This whole story is very sad, OP. Please keep us updated!

OP here. It's my sister's husband's ex-wife. I appreciate hearing from posters...i don't have anyone to talk to about this except DH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old is your niece? Does she live with them full time?

Hi, OP here. My niece is 9 years old.

I talked to my DH tonight about the issue. I asked him what he thinks about severing ties with them, and he said he thinks that's crazy. About them yelling at our DDs, he said that we need to say something to them like, "i know tou have rules here and we want to respect them and make sure our kids respect them, but we can't have [DD] crying 4 times in a 24-hr period because you guys yell at her...so let us handle it when they're breaking a rule...and if you see it first, instead of addressing it, tell one of us and we'll handle it."
He also said that maybe we'll just need to only see them when we all go to my mom's house - that way, they won't be calling the shots so much since it's not their turf. The problem with this is that we (both my family and my sister's family) almost never go to my parents', and even less often at the same time. I think the last time this happened was 2010. And I don't want to see my nephews and niece so infrequently.
About the racism, when DDs get older and it becomes an issue, DH said that we will just tell DDs that what my sister is doing is wrong.

PP above asked about my niece - she is with them one week day per week, as well as every other weekend.

THANK GOD she is not with them every day..
i have an almost 9 yr old DD..and I know how sensitive she is....I feel so bad for her...try to keep open the lines of communication...let her know that she can talk to you...and that if anyone ever does anything that is uncomfortable, mean, etc....that she should tell her mom...
how is it that you don't know her mom...isn't this your brother's baby momma???

Why you subject your kids to this is beyond me. There are plenty of places to see them or interact with them where your children won't be subjected to their yelling or yanking. You are a parent now. Put your kids first rater than your grand ideas of having a perfect family relationship with them.

Anonymous wrote:^^you don't think screaming at a little boy and physically yanking him by the arm constitutes abuse?

No I don't. Neither does the law.

It sounds like the behavior of a frustrated parent not an abusive parent.

Anonymous wrote:How old is your niece? Does she live with them full time?

Hi, OP here. My niece is 9 years old.

I talked to my DH tonight about the issue. I asked him what he thinks about severing ties with them, and he said he thinks that's crazy. About them yelling at our DDs, he said that we need to say something to them like, "i know tou have rules here and we want to respect them and make sure our kids respect them, but we can't have [DD] crying 4 times in a 24-hr period because you guys yell at her...so let us handle it when they're breaking a rule...and if you see it first, instead of addressing it, tell one of us and we'll handle it."
He also said that maybe we'll just need to only see them when we all go to my mom's house - that way, they won't be calling the shots so much since it's not their turf. The problem with this is that we (both my family and my sister's family) almost never go to my parents', and even less often at the same time. I think the last time this happened was 2010. And I don't want to see my nephews and niece so infrequently.
About the racism, when DDs get older and it becomes an issue, DH said that we will just tell DDs that what my sister is doing is wrong.

PP above asked about my niece - she is with them one week day per week, as well as every other weekend.

How old is your niece? Does she live with them full time?

Anonymous wrote:I'm 16:45.

My guess is that SIL and BIL care enormously about the class system, and how others should perceive them to be at the very top of it. Their children must therefore do them credit.

Why not tap into that snobbery by explaining that good behavior and success are better achieved from a place of loving self-confidence than fear of retribution?
And that successful parenting can be extremely structured and disciplined but does not have to be harsh? Consistency is key, not severity.

I would buy them a book about that kind of parenting - strict, but loving. Something along the lines of raising little gentlemen and little ladies. They'll take it better from someone else, since they know this is not how you raise your own children.

I would also continue to visit occasionally, and use this to pursue a continuous, non-confrontational dialogue about parenting, and also to model good parenting behavior.

Of course, they are never going to acknowledge that you raise good points! You are lower down in the class system, you see
It's for the sake of your niece and nephews.

I agree with this post. It could be the only shot you have at encouraging some measure of lenience toward your nephews. Make some subtle comments about the harshness of "lower class folks" toward their children and how sad it is that they cannot show more love and patience toward their children. It taps into their racism I suppose, but you aren't going to change that much, but perhaps you could get them to soften their approach to those poor children a bit.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up with racist relatives in my distant extended family. My parents are not. Most of the time my cousins kept it under wraps when we were around. If they ever say racist things, a) speak up and b) discuss it with your kids after about how this is bad, etc.

I should add, I am not racist (well to some degree everyone is in our society but you get what I mean) despite being exposed to this. If anything, it makes kids think about such issues. I've always been interested in/worked in civil rights,etc.

I grew up with racist relatives in my distant extended family. My parents are not. Most of the time my cousins kept it under wraps when we were around. If they ever say racist things, a) speak up and b) discuss it with your kids after about how this is bad, etc.

^^for wetting a bed?

^^you don't think screaming at a little boy and physically yanking him by the arm constitutes abuse?