Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is may be a more prominent problem at the elementary school level. Why are public schools so against text books now?

Why do you think that MCPS does not use textbooks?

Child #1 (still in elementary school) has been using math textbooks (Harcourt Math) since 3rd grade. I don't like the textbooks, but that's a different issue, given that

1. I also don't know if there are any textbooks available that I would like more. There are certainly textbooks available that I would like less.

and

2. MCPS can only buy the textbooks that the textbook publishers sells, and the textbook publishers are, well, influenced by many factors.

Not every school uses text books. And they certainly don't always follow them.

You second point is true. There is no good math textbook. Most publishers publish the reformed math books. I guess they have to make it new and exciting.

Anonymous wrote:
This is may be a more prominent problem at the elementary school level. Why are public schools so against text books now?

Why do you think that MCPS does not use textbooks?

Child #1 (still in elementary school) has been using math textbooks (Harcourt Math) since 3rd grade. I don't like the textbooks, but that's a different issue, given that

1. I also don't know if there are any textbooks available that I would like more. There are certainly textbooks available that I would like less.

and

2. MCPS can only buy the textbooks that the textbook publishers sells, and the textbook publishers are, well, influenced by many factors.

Anonymous wrote:BTW, I think MCPS math is very much of the reform flavor.

Evidence, please. Which is to say -- evidence other than "sometimes the worksheets in elementary school ask you to explain how you got the answer in words".

BTW, I think MCPS math is very much of the reform flavor.

But I was not arguing that they should use a one hundred year old textbook. My argument is that they are not obviously not following a good textbook. A good textbook means that every thing the student should know is in the books. This is absolutely feasible for a subject such as algebra. The fact is we all heard of these students who reviewed for the final and still failed. Something went wrong there.

I actually think this is a problem for math education in general. Either there is no good textbooks available or schools don't want to adopt an existing one, students work on these worksheets at school. And if they miss a concept, there is no way a parent could even help. If there is book , then at least they can review it themselves or the parents can help. I may not remember everything in math, but give me a textbook, I am sure I can figure out most if not all high school math.

This is may be a more prominent problem at the elementary school level. Why are public schools so against text books now?

Anonymous wrote:A person can really learn algebra from an older text book.

Well, yes, and at St. John's College, they learn calculus from Newton's Principia (or so I've read; I don't actually know this for a fact).

My point is that while the subject matter may not change, the method of teaching the subject matter may change -- and not necessarily for the worse.

Also, people love to point to "reform math" to show that the older ways were better. And if MCPS were using "reform math" (for example, Everyday Math), I would agree. But fortunately MCPS is not using "reform math".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I kept hearing about these study packets, and they are not very useful. I really do not get it. Algebra has not changed in. 100 years, why can't they find a book that has everything a kid need to know?

Reading has not changed in 100 years, why can't they find a book that has everything a kid needs to know?

Reading has not changed but reading material has changed; English has evolved as well. Even then, some of the older readers are still popular today and they are 50 years old.

But algebra really has not changed. A person can really learn algebra from an older text book. I know some home schoolers do exactly that.

http://oilf.blogspot.com/2013/03/math-problems-of-week-multiplying.html

see this post for example. Don't you agree that the older text offer superior problems to work on?

Anonymous wrote:I kept hearing about these study packets, and they are not very useful. I really do not get it. Algebra has not changed in. 100 years, why can't they find a book that has everything a kid need to know?

Reading has not changed in 100 years, why can't they find a book that has everything a kid needs to know?

I kept hearing about these study packets, and they are not very useful. I really do not get it. Algebra has not changed in. 100 years, why can't they find a book that has everything a kid need to know?

For me, I had a poor teacher who made easy tests so I thought the exam would be easy. Also, there were no comprehensive study guides so I had no idea of the level difficulty until I got into the exam. I really wish I had a good study guide that was given weeks before the final.

Anonymous wrote:This has been happening since at least the late 1980's when I was in MCPS. I was a honors student too.

Have you ever figured out why? Any hypothesis?

This has been happening since at least the late 1980's when I was in MCPS. I was a honors student too.

I was almost relieved to see the reporting on this. My DD got a B in the first quarter of geometry and an A the second quarter. She got a D on the final. I didn't know it was a common occurrence.

Anonymous wrote:First, important to understand that kids taking APs and IB do not take the county-wide final.

Second, although the results are of course disturbing, I find it refreshing that there is a county-wide final (ie, kids in all schools/classes throughout the county take a standard test) and that we are finding out the results. The alternative is, do away with the county final, let all schools/teachers provide whatever final they see fit, and then pretend the kids have learned what they needed to.

The county-wide final appears to me to be an attempt to set a county-wide standard and the high percentage of failures indicate that the bar has not been set too low. (I doubt it's been set too high either). It at least shows us where the problems lie. Maybe it is too much acceleration. Maybe something else. But I for one am glad to see the problem identified and out in the open.

This is what I have been trying to figure out. How do MCPS students do in AP and IB Math exams? If they do well and these same students don't take the county-wide final exam, could we have a simple self-selection problem?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rigor has nothing to do with acceleration.

Agree.
Btw, at my company, we love math or engineering majors with decent grades. They are smart, know how to think, are trainable, and learn new topics quickly. They can learn finance, accounting, business concepts, etc way faster and more thoroughly than any liberal arts, business or Econ major. I have seen this across many companies and hiring opportunities. Sadly, other countries are teaching and learning math-and high level maths- much more effectively than the U.S.

I agree with you. I teach a social science at the college level and my best students are nearly always engineering majors. they are usually intelligent, have a good work ethic, are disciplined about working throughout the semester (instead of cramming at the end), actually do the reading, and most imp., they are willing to actually think about what they are learning and ready to apply their knowledge to real world problems.