Anonymous wrote:I've never heard of situational ADHD. Ask any parent
And they will tell you that their ADHD kid can sit still and focus for hours when it's an activity they like, that's classic ADHD. You either have it or you don't.
I would get a neuropsych eval. Stop guessing. See a psych that knows how to detect giftedness.

Um ADHD *is* situational. Whatever engages their brains -- they hyperfocus. Whatever does not -- they flail. It's NOT a deficit in attention, like many characterize it. It's poor attention planning and management.

The hyperfocus is also the reason many such kids end up with really advanced skills for their age, but only in certain areas. It's not always a twice-exceptional indicator, although an advanced academic classroom does have the potential to better sustain their interest. the flip side, of course, is that the AAP (at least in FCPS) assumes self-motivation and independence, so you'll have to make that call, wether it's worth pursuing for your particular kid.

My advice -- get a formal diagnosis, and maybe try the meds. If he can get into AAP, great, but at this age he would have to be instructed 1+ year ahead in all 4 core areas to be admitted (FCPS, again) -- something that is unlikely to be the case with a disruptive ADHD kid. But take every opportunity you can to transform the learning experience from a drill and kill one to an experiential, easy to focus on. For instance, I used to focus on math with my kid (also 3rd grade). It was the area she had been light years ahead, and I guess I was trying to get her spark back. Her very perceptive teacher suggested that we distribute her focus across more areas. My kid was beyond excited to do additional research on social studies (Egypt, which she never turned in, but loved, Greece and china). What's more, now after a few of these presentations, the teacher was able to encourage the entire classroom to follow. The net result is just a better quality instruction for all. And everyone in the classroom now thinks independent research is fun!

The point here is that you can;t have the kid run circles every 20 minutes, you're right. But *if* the class captures his attention, then he does not have to. So the strategy is finding out with the teacher the type of activities that *will* engage him, and use those as a stepping stone. My kid was a great reader as well, and loved great stories. So the teacher was right in recommending we used her current strengths vs whatever strengths we had seen in the past.

As for math, it became a non-issue. This year, DD had suddenly "forgotten" how to carefully read any word problem and could simply not "get" math. It was maddening, because I *knew* she had a good head for math. But even I started to wonder. After redirecting focus to her strength, even before the positive feedback at school, dd started to suddenly "get" math. The Singapore word book that had eluded us before was finished in two afternoons! Then we moved on to the next grade one. Remembering her multiplication tables was a breeze -- the same kid who had been remiss remembering the simplest addition facts, and had been using her fingers to figure out 2+3!

if the current classroom situation is not working for him, try something else, and enlist the teacher for recommendations. Some work may have to come home, but the better the kids feel about their academic success, the more resilient they will be to "boring" and "hard" tasks. No more sending him to the office with a blank note, 'just because he had to move!".

Good luck...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And some kids (especially 2e) have private testing establishing official diagnoses and get nothing because the school doesn't see the educational impact.

I have two 2e kids. If I could do it all over, I wouldn't have wasted any time on fighting the school. It was a constant battle that went on year after year. And in the end, none of it helped my kids. Even when I "won," I lost. We switched to a small private school last year and life is so much better. No IEP, no 504 - just small classes and amazing teachers who get that not all kids learn the same way.

which school?

Yes, pp, pls do share.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And some kids (especially 2e) have private testing establishing official diagnoses and get nothing because the school doesn't see the educational impact.

I have two 2e kids. If I could do it all over, I wouldn't have wasted any time on fighting the school. It was a constant battle that went on year after year. And in the end, none of it helped my kids. Even when I "won," I lost. We switched to a small private school last year and life is so much better. No IEP, no 504 - just small classes and amazing teachers who get that not all kids learn the same way.

Hoping I can find PP or someone else in DC area who has a kid in a school like the one described above. Which schools work well for these kids?

Second, any experience with the MoCo GT/LD middle schools? I'm surprised I don't hear more about them on this Board. Especially interested in North Bethesda Middle School.

Thanks so much!

I have 2E (3?4?E) LDs/GT/ADHD child and we have had to be extremely vigilant and push hard for DC to get the challenging classes he needs and the remediation he needs at the same time. We are in FCPS, but like MCPS, FCPS is wide and long and there are many different experiences.

Anonymous wrote:And some kids (especially 2e) have private testing establishing official diagnoses and get nothing because the school doesn't see the educational impact.

I have two 2e kids. If I could do it all over, I wouldn't have wasted any time on fighting the school. It was a constant battle that went on year after year. And in the end, none of it helped my kids. Even when I "won," I lost. We switched to a small private school last year and life is so much better. No IEP, no 504 - just small classes and amazing teachers who get that not all kids learn the same way.

which school?

Anonymous wrote:And some kids (especially 2e) have private testing establishing official diagnoses and get nothing because the school doesn't see the educational impact.

I have two 2e kids. If I could do it all over, I wouldn't have wasted any time on fighting the school. It was a constant battle that went on year after year. And in the end, none of it helped my kids. Even when I "won," I lost. We switched to a small private school last year and life is so much better. No IEP, no 504 - just small classes and amazing teachers who get that not all kids learn the same way.

Hoping I can find PP or someone else in DC area who has a kid in a school like the one described above. Which schools work well for these kids?

Second, any experience with the MoCo GT/LD middle schools? I'm surprised I don't hear more about them on this Board. Especially interested in North Bethesda Middle School.

Thanks so much!

And some kids (especially 2e) have private testing establishing official diagnoses and get nothing because the school doesn't see the educational impact.

I have two 2e kids. If I could do it all over, I wouldn't have wasted any time on fighting the school. It was a constant battle that went on year after year. And in the end, none of it helped my kids. Even when I "won," I lost. We switched to a small private school last year and life is so much better. No IEP, no 504 - just small classes and amazing teachers who get that not all kids learn the same way.

Anonymous wrote:I would not waste any time on public school testing. But that doesn't mean all private testers are great either. I have read reports from private testers that are just as horrible as the school reports, so make sure you get a sample report and some recommendations before proceeding.

Also, don't get to get tested at a place that also offers services. I have seen those reports and they are even more self-serving that those produced by the public school.

Thanks, that is a useful observation. I just visited child's doc today and was told that some kids get IEPs and 504s WITHOUT any testing at all, and then they just renew the testing.

It all seems so random...

I would not waste any time on public school testing. But that doesn't mean all private testers are great either. I have read reports from private testers that are just as horrible as the school reports, so make sure you get a sample report and some recommendations before proceeding.

Also, don't get to get tested at a place that also offers services. I have seen those reports and they are even more self-serving that those produced by the public school.

Anonymous wrote:On public vs. private testing --

Our experience was that the public testing was very weak. Plus, it didn't help that by the time we did the public testing, the trust level I had for the public school, having been lied to so many times, was almost nil.

The school psychologist is only a psychologist, not a neuropyschologist. They are qualified to do the IQ testing. They will administer some checklist/questionnaire type forms to the parent and teacher, ostensibly for ADHD diagnosis, but IMO, this is not enough and what the neuropsychologist can add is more objective testing (tower of london and a computerized test for inattention and impulsivity) for ADD & executive functioning capabilities. The speech and language pathologist did "informal" assessment and refused to use any normed or standardized instruments which would have shown objectively where DC was performing compared to a national percentile. This kind of information is key to getting a 504 or IEP, particularly for GT kids -- one compares the IQ percentile and the achievement percentile and if they differ widely that's a red flag for learning disability. Without the normed testing, the school just keeps saying, "but he's not behind, he's not failing class."

The public school will do the minimum testing and will not do more unless you press for it. It's hard to know what to ask for. The neuropsychologist did the maximum testing -- uncovering things that I had not expected.

I also found the speech and language and occupational therapy testing to be pretty terrible. I had asked for an OT evaluation because my son's handwriting was very bad. The OT person tested his capital letter formation and number formation - untimed - and decided there was no problem. Never mind that 95% of all letters that a child writes at school are lowercase! Lowercase writing was never tested. Private testing revealed he was in the bottom 8th %ile of handwriting and that everything took so long that even when it looked good, his writing was completely non-functional in the classroom.

On the pro side -- the public school is obliged to complete all testing/assessment within 60 days from your IEP meeting where you determine there's a "reasonable suspicion of disability" and the team decides to move forward to the IEP eligibility determination meeting. If you do not agree with the assessments done by the public school, you have the right to ask that the school system pay for outside assessment.

Private assessments typically take months to schedule and at least 6-8 weeks more for the final report. The IEP team will not consider any your private information until the private report is finished (even though you get a list of diagnoses and a verbal read-out from the private person within a few days). But, what you get is usually extremely detailed, contains objective data, and is hard for the team to ignore.

That said, private is also very expensive. Everyone has to make choices about how much money they have and where best to spend it.

Thank you so much. This was really helpful. Can you tell me which school system you are in? Wondering if there is much of a difference between local systems and I don't want to reveal mine here as we are in the thick of it now.

I wonder if the private docs would take the school's assessment and build on it...I will ask, that may be a way to get what we need but at a more reasonable cost. I was told by the psych that our child needs private tutoring, and I was on the phone today with other specialists and booking more appts - it all adds up and then adds to MY stress level, which doesn't help the kiddo. Sigh. Thanks so much!

On public vs. private testing --

Our experience was that the public testing was very weak. Plus, it didn't help that by the time we did the public testing, the trust level I had for the public school, having been lied to so many times, was almost nil.

The school psychologist is only a psychologist, not a neuropyschologist. They are qualified to do the IQ testing. They will administer some checklist/questionnaire type forms to the parent and teacher, ostensibly for ADHD diagnosis, but IMO, this is not enough and what the neuropsychologist can add is more objective testing (tower of london and a computerized test for inattention and impulsivity) for ADD & executive functioning capabilities. The speech and language pathologist did "informal" assessment and refused to use any normed or standardized instruments which would have shown objectively where DC was performing compared to a national percentile. This kind of information is key to getting a 504 or IEP, particularly for GT kids -- one compares the IQ percentile and the achievement percentile and if they differ widely that's a red flag for learning disability. Without the normed testing, the school just keeps saying, "but he's not behind, he's not failing class."

The public school will do the minimum testing and will not do more unless you press for it. It's hard to know what to ask for. The neuropsychologist did the maximum testing -- uncovering things that I had not expected.

I also found the speech and language and occupational therapy testing to be pretty terrible. I had asked for an OT evaluation because my son's handwriting was very bad. The OT person tested his capital letter formation and number formation - untimed - and decided there was no problem. Never mind that 95% of all letters that a child writes at school are lowercase! Lowercase writing was never tested. Private testing revealed he was in the bottom 8th %ile of handwriting and that everything took so long that even when it looked good, his writing was completely non-functional in the classroom.

On the pro side -- the public school is obliged to complete all testing/assessment within 60 days from your IEP meeting where you determine there's a "reasonable suspicion of disability" and the team decides to move forward to the IEP eligibility determination meeting. If you do not agree with the assessments done by the public school, you have the right to ask that the school system pay for outside assessment.

Private assessments typically take months to schedule and at least 6-8 weeks more for the final report. The IEP team will not consider any your private information until the private report is finished (even though you get a list of diagnoses and a verbal read-out from the private person within a few days). But, what you get is usually extremely detailed, contains objective data, and is hard for the team to ignore.

That said, private is also very expensive. Everyone has to make choices about how much money they have and where best to spend it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely sounds as though there may be ADHD, and giftedness.
Learning disabilities, apart from those stemming from the need to focus? Not so much, it seems.
How is he doing in written expression? That is often a hurdle for twice exceptional children.

I strongly suggest your son should have a WISC-IV test done. It is a comprehensive IQ test done by a psychologist and costing $300+, but it is well worth it to understand any child's strengths and weaknesses. It can be produced to bolster your requests for services (gifted center, for ex) from the public school.

For gifted, or gifted and learning-disabled children, it is even more interesting: for them, the sub-scores will be perhaps unusually high and also maybe unusually low. My twice exceptional son has a 23 point difference in scores between his highest and lowest subscores, which is quite rare. In practice it means the standard teaching methods are not adapted to his needs. We are looking into the gifted and learning disabled center in MoCo.

Good luck!

I am a little confused because I thought the WISC-IV subset ceiling was 19.

I think PP must be referring to scaled score differences. You are thinking of raw subtest scores.

Anonymous wrote:School testing is not the same as private testing because it is in the school's interest to provide minimal accommodation.

IME the schools and private testing sues the same tests. BUT the school did not delve into the tests or do follow up tests to pin point the issues. As soon as the school psychologist found enough to qualify DC for special education she stopped. The private testing was MUCH more thorough and uncovered several more issues, and the analysis was much more in depth and provided specific things do moving forward.

Anonymous wrote:

2nd question: Assuming we get an IEP, does this stay in place through HS graduation, or do you have to periodically prove that your child still needs these services to succeed?

NP.
My elementary aged child has an IEP.
We meet annually with the school and county to set the IEP for the upcoming year.
This spring we completed the 3-year cycle review (wasn't aware there was one until the letter arrived). We determined (and all agreed) that diagnosis/eligibility coding was and continues to be accurate; no additional testing is warranted at this point; school/program placement is appropriate; child is making appropriate academic and social/emotional progress with current and proposed services in place, etc.

Anonymous wrote:School testing is not the same as private testing because it is in the school's interest to provide minimal accommodation.

This was not true in our case. Our DS was provided with psychoeducational testing when he was 4 after we requested an evaluation with his school, a DC language immersion charter. The testing was done at school over three days, the tester had meetings with his teachers and us, his parents: We were very pleased with the report as was our developmental pediatrician, educational consultant and private neuropsychologist, very through. The testing was at no cost to us and saved us money b/c the testing did not have to be repeated by our private providers.

The testing was the basis for our child's IEP and provides all the services and accommodations with some tweaking each yr: School is going great and smoothly ever since. DS is currently in 1st grade.

Anonymous wrote:School testing is not the same as private testing because it is in the school's interest to provide minimal accommodation.

Thanks for your response. Aha...so is this the crux of all the conflicts? In other words, the school system doesn't want to cover what they consider "minor" problems so they provide very basic testing that will not uncover all issues? But if a family pays for private testing and can make a case through the testing, etc, then they can try to make a new case to convince the school system to accommodate? I'm starting to see this is where the market for all of the private educational consultants comes in, right?

My sense is that since it is very clear that there are now issues and the teachers and school staff are getting involved, we will get the testing. I guess the real issue is...would private testing speed up the process? And it seems like there are long waits anyway. Not to mention we can't afford it.

And I haven't even requested the testing yet...I've just started reading some strings on how to do this...certified mail, etc, and documenting school records, health records, etc. I'm in process of gathering all of that now.

Thank you.