Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 14:15     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in any way trivializing female mutilation, but suggesting that you consider it in the same way as male mutilation.

Here's another article that I suggest you read in its entirety. I used to agree with you until I read up more and better understood the cultural background behind female circumcision and realized that it is very similar to cutting boys.

http://joseph4gi.blogspot.com/2011/06/circumcision-is-child-abuse-picture.html


Why exactly would I consider slicing off the labia and clitoris, often followed by sewing up the vaginal opening the same as removing a foreskin on a penis? Explain that to me. I'm not talking about the cultural background - at all. I'm talking about the severity of the procedure that you are trivializing.

Seriously, Google some images of circumcised girls and and then get back to me. Aside from the horror of seeing a mutilated vulva and the blood that goes with removing the flesh of the labia, you'll also note that FGM is typically performed on girls older than 5 (markedly different than male circumcision in most cultures). Study it - no not just reading a few anti male circumcision articles. But study FGM and then maybe you'll realize how A) insanely offensive the comparison is between male circumcision and FGM and B) how devastating FGM can be for a woman's health, never mind her sexuality (unlike male circumcision). There is NO comparison. Or, to put it another way, to say that there is similarities is to compare a cut to an amputation.


Again, please read this: http://joseph4gi.blogspot.com/2011/06/circumcision-is-child-abuse-picture.html I think you will find it enlightening. When you've read it I'd be very interested to hear your views.


Again, you fail to explain how exactly the two procedures compare beyond their cultural roots. Stop referring me to some blog and speak for yourself. I am very curious how you can legitimately compare the two in terms of the devastation and danger they present. You don't seem well informed about FGM and how dangerous and detrimental it is to women's health - it's not even comparable to male circumcision.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 14:11     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
(that is 100 deaths in the US per year). If you read the article that I have linked to twice you will understand. I too believed that they were very different but now that I know more about the practice I realize that they are largely similar except that one cultural practice is acceptable and the other one isn't.

If you have read that article please come back here and tell me why you still don't agree because I am open to hearing it.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 14:10     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Dh is Jewish
I am not
We did not circ our son

My jewish in laws might disapprove but it has never come up
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 14:09     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Anonymous wrote:Women and girls die from complications of female circumcision .... Boys don't bleed to death because their foreskin is removed. Some of you lack perspective and information. You don't want to circumcise your sons, fine. But please stop with the ridiculous comparison to female circumcision. The roots of the practices may be similar, but that is where the similarities end. Incidentally, we will not be circumcizing our son, but in no way is it because I believe that it's akin in any way or form to female circumcision.


Sigh. YES BOYS DO BLEED TO DEATH. Approximately 100 boys each year die because of complications (infection or excessive bleeding) due to circumcision. Often the bleeding is not recognized as an issue because they are wearing disposable diapers which make it virtually impossible to tell how much blood has been lost.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 14:01     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am not in any way trivializing female mutilation, but suggesting that you consider it in the same way as male mutilation.

Here's another article that I suggest you read in its entirety. I used to agree with you until I read up more and better understood the cultural background behind female circumcision and realized that it is very similar to cutting boys.

http://joseph4gi.blogspot.com/2011/06/circumcision-is-child-abuse-picture.html


Why exactly would I consider slicing off the labia and clitoris, often followed by sewing up the vaginal opening the same as removing a foreskin on a penis? Explain that to me. I'm not talking about the cultural background - at all. I'm talking about the severity of the procedure that you are trivializing.

Seriously, Google some images of circumcised girls and and then get back to me. Aside from the horror of seeing a mutilated vulva and the blood that goes with removing the flesh of the labia, you'll also note that FGM is typically performed on girls older than 5 (markedly different than male circumcision in most cultures). Study it - no not just reading a few anti male circumcision articles. But study FGM and then maybe you'll realize how A) insanely offensive the comparison is between male circumcision and FGM and B) how devastating FGM can be for a woman's health, never mind her sexuality (unlike male circumcision). There is NO comparison. Or, to put it another way, to say that there is similarities is to compare a cut to an amputation.


Again, please read this: http://joseph4gi.blogspot.com/2011/06/circumcision-is-child-abuse-picture.html I think you will find it enlightening. When you've read it I'd be very interested to hear your views.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 13:20     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Anonymous wrote:Women and girls die from complications of female circumcision .... Boys don't bleed to death because their foreskin is removed. Some of you lack perspective and information. You don't want to circumcise your sons, fine. But please stop with the ridiculous comparison to female circumcision. The roots of the practices may be similar, but that is where the similarities end. Incidentally, we will not be circumcizing our son, but in no way is it because I believe that it's akin in any way or form to female circumcision.


X10000
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 13:19     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
OP, I haven't read the entire thread. But, I'm a Jewish mother of a Jewish eleven year old boy who isn't circumcized. We are one family, and many people may disagree with what we did, but here was my reasoning:

I was raised reform/reconstructionist. My parents were pretty secular. I am fairly observant in this vein, but I couldn't reconcile how many other traditions and obbservances we had chucked out the window in favor of keeping this one.

On a side note, I expected a lot of grief from my family for this decision. I got none.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 13:19     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Anonymous wrote:I have no problem with removing a piece of skin.


Yup, me neither. Some of these wing nuts have way too much time on their hands and too few real world problems to worry about.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 12:50     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
I have no problem with removing a piece of skin.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 12:26     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
I'm Jewish (reform) and decided not to. I decided that I should leave my son with all the parts god gave him, and if he decides to have it done as an adult-that should be his choice-not mine. I know a few other Jews who have made the same choice.
I think there are many more important ways to express my faith-how I treat others-work to heal the world etc.
jindc
Post 04/11/2013 12:23     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
I have a hard time believing when these people see a woman yell at her child on the metro to "shut the F up" that they give that woman their opinions. Same with people who text and drive with kids in the back seat. or completely igore their children while they have their faces deep in their iPhones. or anything else that's truly bad for a child's health and wellbeing. I'm just sure they do the same thing. Because I see it happen all the time and I'm still waiting for one of these "IT'S CHILD ABUSE!!!" people to stand up and say something.

It's the security of being anonymous on here that lets women so easily criticize other people's parenting regardless of the issue. It's pretty sad - feel passionately, fine. But get off your high horses and worry about things that really matter like poor water quality around the world, maternal death, etc. Sheesh.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 12:11     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
jindc wrote:Why is this discussion going on in 3 or 4 different threads? the end result is always the same - some people choose to do it, others don't. It's really none of anyone's business, for the most part. I'm sure the anti-people are as much about all the other issues facing OTHER people's families.

I just don't understand why this happens here time and time again with the same lack-of-respectful resolution.


People feel strongly about it. If you do it and feel fine with it, that's good and I totally understand. On the other hand, you have to understand that there are going to be people out there who really, really think it is wrong and they see your child as a victim of something. They feel it's child abuse. So asking them not to say how they feel is like telling someone it's none of their business how they discipline their child after you see them punching them out.

I understand completely that you don't see it the same way, but that is definitely the perspective of those of us who care about the issue. When we were making the decision, we looked into it and did a ton of research. I can't just look away from the research and what I learned and pretend that I think it's okay to do it. I think it's morally wrong.

II definitely understand why people choose to do it, and it's not like I think they're evil. It's obviously what people just do. Especially if your religious affiliation requires it. But, if you ask me, or as these conversations come up, I will give my opinion that I think it's not the right thing to do.
jindc
Post 04/11/2013 12:08     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
I'm sure people silently judge many, many parents...especially whose to inspect the genitals of children that aren't theirs. It's not at all creepy for you to care THAT much about them
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 12:05     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not at all. We did it and have no regrets. The only comments I ever see are those online. No one in real life has asked or cared.


I have never experienced the hostility towards circumcision expressed on these postings in real life. I had no idea it was so controversial until I started reading these posts.


People feel strongly about it. I wouldn't get in my friends' faces about their choices, because I'm not a confrontational person, but when I hear people say they are going to circ, or if I change a diaper of a friend's kid and realize they've circumcised, I have to admit that I definitely think less of them for it. But, my own decision was not easy to come to, and we nearly circ'd, and ultimately we decided not to because my brother's kid had a major infection and huge problems with his circ just before our kid was born, or otherwise we might have decided a different way. So I do try to tamp down the initial judgy feeling that comes up as I think it's easy to make the mistake of doing it, especially as it was for such a long time just the cultural norm, that nobody ever second-guessed. And, for a long time, people weren't even really aware of the risks and even said it wasn't painful to the baby. But, if I know you circ'd your baby, I think you made a mistake and didn't educate yourself and your kid suffered for it. I'm sure that will earn me flames, and Im sure many people will say who cares, and that's fine. But to those of you saying you never encounter this in real life, it doesn't mean people aren't silently thinking it.


Glad we probably aren't friends. Sounds like you are the uneducated one who has no concept of respecting others culture, religion and beliefs.


We might be friends! As I mentioned, it's not something I'd say to you in person, unless you asked me. I know plenty of people who did circ, and I held my tongue. I'm just being honest here about how I really feel, and you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm not the only one who silently judges you for chopping off part of an innocent baby's penis. I think It horrifies me, and I don't find your religion justification for it any more than I find other institutional abuses or harm done to kids in the name of religious culture acceptable, or religious jihads are to be tolerated because they are religion. Respect the religion and the beliefs and the person who believes it does NOT mean we should fail to protect the innocent.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2013 11:27     Subject: Any Jews having a tough time with circumcision?
Women and girls die from complications of female circumcision .... Boys don't bleed to death because their foreskin is removed. Some of you lack perspective and information. You don't want to circumcise your sons, fine. But please stop with the ridiculous comparison to female circumcision. The roots of the practices may be similar, but that is where the similarities end. Incidentally, we will not be circumcizing our son, but in no way is it because I believe that it's akin in any way or form to female circumcision.