Anonymous wrote:I have taught third grade GT/AAp for almost thirty years. It used to be truly gifted kids and few of them. Now with pushy parents there are many kids who don't belong so the program has been watered down. I find many kids who can't handle the math, read below grade level, and can't write. I would argue that over half of the students in my class belong in the gen ed class, not AAP.

You must teach at Riverside. This is a great example of lack of consistency from AAP Center to AAP Center.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference is the peer group AND the curriculum AND the pace AND the depth AND the teachers that have more experience teaching "gifted" kids (and therefore also have more experience with the social emotional needs of these kids and not "just the academics") AND the support structure (including counselors) that has more experience working with these kids.

But where does that get you at the end of AAP that you couldn't/ wouldn't otherwise be? Not trying to argue... just trying to get a measure of the goal. If the AAP kids just get to Point B a year ahead of everyone else, then I'm not sure it's a goal I want to pursue. Are AAP kids better prepared for college? For Honors classes? For AP classes?

What are we all racing toward?

You make it sound as if there must be a goal of "getting somewhere" ahead of other students. Why must it be a competition? The goal to pursue is a well-rounded child who is challenged and not having to wait around while the teacher works to get everyone caught up on basics. Are they better prepared for college? Honors? AP? I don' have a kid in HS yet but I'm sure the prep is going to help. My child is doing extensive, daily writing (well beyond what I know classmates in base are getting -- my child has a class just on writing every single day as one of her rotations); social studies projects that expect a lot of depth and insight and expect the child to make connections (and that get real feedback from the teacher); science that is, again, expecting a lot of depth and detail. These kids will be ready to write better labs in HS, write better essays sooner in HS, think more critically. So yeah, I think it does prepare them for HS and AP etc.

Please ignore all the yakking about resumes to get into TJ, parents angling to get kids scores on certain tests, etc. Does it happen? Yes. I've seen it. It's sad. You ask about the goal -- it's to get a kid to think and love learning, not just to get into TJ or get to point B that year ahead of everyone else, as you put it.

AAP is great, but you make it seem like they don't do these things in general education. When the teachers differentiate the classes, the students are working at different paces. They are not sitting around waiting for other kids to catch up, because they are working on their individual task. They do daily writing, with written assignments and writing journals. The students who are talented in a subject matter are being challenged in that area.

Parents should take a look at what their base school has to offer. Some AAP parents don't really know what is going on in general education classes since their kids are not in them.

AAP writing is great. But social studies projects are time waste.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference is the peer group AND the curriculum AND the pace AND the depth AND the teachers that have more experience teaching "gifted" kids (and therefore also have more experience with the social emotional needs of these kids and not "just the academics") AND the support structure (including counselors) that has more experience working with these kids.

But where does that get you at the end of AAP that you couldn't/ wouldn't otherwise be? Not trying to argue... just trying to get a measure of the goal. If the AAP kids just get to Point B a year ahead of everyone else, then I'm not sure it's a goal I want to pursue. Are AAP kids better prepared for college? For Honors classes? For AP classes?

What are we all racing toward?

You make it sound as if there must be a goal of "getting somewhere" ahead of other students. Why must it be a competition? The goal to pursue is a well-rounded child who is challenged and not having to wait around while the teacher works to get everyone caught up on basics. Are they better prepared for college? Honors? AP? I don' have a kid in HS yet but I'm sure the prep is going to help. My child is doing extensive, daily writing (well beyond what I know classmates in base are getting -- my child has a class just on writing every single day as one of her rotations); social studies projects that expect a lot of depth and insight and expect the child to make connections (and that get real feedback from the teacher); science that is, again, expecting a lot of depth and detail. These kids will be ready to write better labs in HS, write better essays sooner in HS, think more critically. So yeah, I think it does prepare them for HS and AP etc.

Please ignore all the yakking about resumes to get into TJ, parents angling to get kids scores on certain tests, etc. Does it happen? Yes. I've seen it. It's sad. You ask about the goal -- it's to get a kid to think and love learning, not just to get into TJ or get to point B that year ahead of everyone else, as you put it.

AAP is great, but you make it seem like they don't do these things in general education. When the teachers differentiate the classes, the students are working at different paces. They are not sitting around waiting for other kids to catch up, because they are working on their individual task. They do daily writing, with written assignments and writing journals. The students who are talented in a subject matter are being challenged in that area.

Parents should take a look at what their base school has to offer. Some AAP parents don't really know what is going on in general education classes since their kids are not in them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference is the peer group AND the curriculum AND the pace AND the depth AND the teachers that have more experience teaching "gifted" kids (and therefore also have more experience with the social emotional needs of these kids and not "just the academics") AND the support structure (including counselors) that has more experience working with these kids.

But where does that get you at the end of AAP that you couldn't/ wouldn't otherwise be? Not trying to argue... just trying to get a measure of the goal. If the AAP kids just get to Point B a year ahead of everyone else, then I'm not sure it's a goal I want to pursue. Are AAP kids better prepared for college? For Honors classes? For AP classes?

What are we all racing toward?

You make it sound as if there must be a goal of "getting somewhere" ahead of other students. Why must it be a competition? The goal to pursue is a well-rounded child who is challenged and not having to wait around while the teacher works to get everyone caught up on basics. Are they better prepared for college? Honors? AP? I don' have a kid in HS yet but I'm sure the prep is going to help. My child is doing extensive, daily writing (well beyond what I know classmates in base are getting -- my child has a class just on writing every single day as one of her rotations); social studies projects that expect a lot of depth and insight and expect the child to make connections (and that get real feedback from the teacher); science that is, again, expecting a lot of depth and detail. These kids will be ready to write better labs in HS, write better essays sooner in HS, think more critically. So yeah, I think it does prepare them for HS and AP etc.

Please ignore all the yakking about resumes to get into TJ, parents angling to get kids scores on certain tests, etc. Does it happen? Yes. I've seen it. It's sad. You ask about the goal -- it's to get a kid to think and love learning, not just to get into TJ or get to point B that year ahead of everyone else, as you put it.

Anonymous wrote:

More activities are available to AAP kids. Spelling bee, amc 8, amc10 etc. Makes a difference in resume when applying to TJ.

Kids can no longer write in a "resume" of activities for the TJ application. They can give one to the teachers from who they request recs, but there is no place in the application for a list of activities.

HAHAHA What do you think they write on the SAS?

Anonymous wrote:But these kids were already smart, of course. It's difficult to separate out the effect of the AAP center from the effect of just being smart.

So don't worry about it and let someone else's kid have your AAP slot. Works perfectly.

I have taught third grade GT/AAp for almost thirty years. It used to be truly gifted kids and few of them. Now with pushy parents there are many kids who don't belong so the program has been watered down. I find many kids who can't handle the math, read below grade level, and can't write. I would argue that over half of the students in my class belong in the gen ed class, not AAP.

Anonymous wrote:

More activities are available to AAP kids. Spelling bee, amc 8, amc10 etc. Makes a difference in resume when applying to TJ.

Kids can no longer write in a "resume" of activities for the TJ application. They can give one to the teachers from who they request recs, but there is no place in the application for a list of activities.

You can always mention those as Part of your SIS. Similar to what you do in a job interview.

More activities are available to AAP kids. Spelling bee, amc 8, amc10 etc. Makes a difference in resume when applying to TJ.

Kids can no longer write in a "resume" of activities for the TJ application. They can give one to the teachers from who they request recs, but there is no place in the application for a list of activities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More activities are available to AAP kids. Spelling bee, amc 8, amc10 etc. Makes a difference in resume when applying to TJ.

These activities are also available to general education students. They may not choose to participate, but they are always welcome if they desire.

But many (most? some?) non-center schools don't have these activities. I know our base school does not.

I think AAP parents are more likely to go to their school office yo get the school registered for amc8, amc10, ...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More activities are available to AAP kids. Spelling bee, amc 8, amc10 etc. Makes a difference in resume when applying to TJ.

These activities are also available to general education students. They may not choose to participate, but they are always welcome if they desire.

But many (most? some?) non-center schools don't have these activities. I know our base school does not.

AAP teachers are probably on average better than non AAP teachers

Your child's classmates will be similar in their ability to grasp concepts/lesson plans
(for example, in a non AAP class a child may understand the material in the first 5 minutes of a lesson plan. The teacher then spends 20 minutes trying to get the rest of the class to understand. That could mean boredom and less efficient use of your child's time).

Your child's classmates may stimulate and broaden your childs perspectives, as they may do as well to others.

I agree with all the above. My child is finishing 6th grade in an AAP center and has had these experiences as above -- especially peers who are stimulating and bring a lot of mature and thoughtful perspectives to discussions. I have volunteered in both 4th an 6th grades for things like Junior Great Books discussions with small groups of these kids (6-7 kids, and never my own kid in my group) and I can say I've been impressed with both the kids' thoughfulness and their behavior toward each other during discussions. They listen well to each other and truly discuss. Sure, they are kids, and they have some goofing off and messing around! But overall I think the experience of having peers who are able to do this kind of work stretches my child.
I also agree with the poster (sorry, could not copy the whole post above as my computer ate it....) that behavior seems to be a non-issue at our center. Someone else posted that this wasn't true, but for us it has been. The kids are interested in school and want to be there; most of them enjoy it from what I see and hear -- from them, not just from teachers or my own child.
You mention that if there is advanced math at base schools, why go to a center -- but it's not just about math!
By the way - posting on here is going to get you a lot of snarky comments about how awful AAP is and how parents just want it as a way to brag about their kids. Unless those posters HAVE kids actually in AAP please take their posts accordingly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More activities are available to AAP kids. Spelling bee, amc 8, amc10 etc. Makes a difference in resume when applying to TJ.

Just because a kid is in AAP does not necessarily mean they will end up at TJ. Also, just because a kid is in AAP does not necessarily mean they WANT to end up at TJ. Not all kids at AAP Centers apply to go to TJ.

More probability. Just look at tge stayistics for the past years.

A majority of students in AAP Centers in 8th grade do not become students at TJ.

Your assumption based on no data!!!

the # of 8th grade AAP Center students as well as the number of freshman admitted students to TJ are posted on BoardDocs. It is all PUBLICLY AVAILABLE data. Hardly "no data."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But these kids were already smart, of course. It's difficult to separate out the effect of the AAP center from the effect of just being smart.

Is it AAP that increases the chance of getting in TJ or the fact that the type of students in an AAP Center is more likely to get into TJ? I think most of the students in AAP that get into TJ had a high chance of getting in regardless of whether they attended an AAP center or stayed in their home school. The stand out student will be a stand out student where ever he/she attends.

These two post are making the same point, but it is a good one.
If there were a way to have a do-over and send the kids back through a school system where AAP or its equivalent did not exist, it's possible that many of the same kids would end up at TJ. There's really no way of knowing if AAP made a difference to any particular set of TJ students.

I think the emphasis on writing in AAP helps these kids. Remember, 45% weight is given to wrting skills. Not math.

The essays account for 25% of the application evaluation. For the other 20%, you might be thinking of the Student Information Sheet (SIS). The SIS is not really only about writing skills though. It is more about how a student discusses his favorite activities and subject matter interests. It's the place where students can talk about who they are and what interests them. It's more about the content than about how it's written.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But these kids were already smart, of course. It's difficult to separate out the effect of the AAP center from the effect of just being smart.

Is it AAP that increases the chance of getting in TJ or the fact that the type of students in an AAP Center is more likely to get into TJ? I think most of the students in AAP that get into TJ had a high chance of getting in regardless of whether they attended an AAP center or stayed in their home school. The stand out student will be a stand out student where ever he/she attends.

These two post are making the same point, but it is a good one.
If there were a way to have a do-over and send the kids back through a school system where AAP or its equivalent did not exist, it's possible that many of the same kids would end up at TJ. There's really no way of knowing if AAP made a difference to any particular set of TJ students.

I think the emphasis on writing in AAP helps these kids. Remember, 45% weight is given to wrting skills. Not math.