Anonymous wrote:OP here. He got a job in August 2013 and lost it again exactly two years later (August 2015). Here I am again...he's unemployed and doesn't do anything other than blame me for his low self esteem. I'm holding my breath for him to get a job because now I'm clear that I am not the one for him. He needs someone much more giving than I am. Sad for my kid. Hope he gets a job soon. We fight all the time and are in counseling.

Assuming he's depressed, how can I help him get on the job search if I don't feel very much empathy for him? I want empathy but my resentment gets in the way: I don't know what he does all day. He doesn't do daycare as we pay for afterschool. He doesn't cook. He doesn't clean. He rarely does errands. He doesn't manage playdates, summer camp planning, etc. He doesn't walk the dog. He won't sit down with me and figure out a way to cut expenses so we can at least live within the new income level (mine). He keeps buying bottled water, luxury juices, glass bottled milk ($7 a quart). He says I don't appreciate him because he does things that I don't see, but he won't tell me what those are.

Assuming he's depressed, you can help him by getting him an appointment with a qualified paychiatrist highly experienced with mood disorders. Take him there and meet jointly the first time at least. It's a lot to lose your job twice in two years. It sounds to me like he needs help.

This was my husband too. We ended up divorcing and his refusal to work definitely helped the division of assets in my favor. After his alimony ran out, he actually ended up getting a fairly decent job with an 80k salary. Amazing what he could accomplish once he wasn't enabled

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He got a job in August 2013 and lost it again exactly two years later (August 2015). Here I am again...he's unemployed and doesn't do anything other than blame me for his low self esteem. I'm holding my breath for him to get a job because now I'm clear that I am not the one for him. He needs someone much more giving than I am. Sad for my kid. Hope he gets a job soon. We fight all the time and are in counseling.

Assuming he's depressed, how can I help him get on the job search if I don't feel very much empathy for him? I want empathy but my resentment gets in the way: I don't know what he does all day. He doesn't do daycare as we pay for afterschool. He doesn't cook. He doesn't clean. He rarely does errands. He doesn't manage playdates, summer camp planning, etc. He doesn't walk the dog. He won't sit down with me and figure out a way to cut expenses so we can at least live within the new income level (mine). He keeps buying bottled water, luxury juices, glass bottled milk ($7 a quart). He says I don't appreciate him because he does things that I don't see, but he won't tell me what those are.

If he was posting here, how would he describe his daily routine? I don't understand how he does nothing all day. Does he just surf the net all day? What does he do for 16 hours per day?

I'm usually on the side of taking a gentle approah, but the way you describe him makes him look so bad that I honestly wonder if he wants you to divorce him.

Anonymous wrote:I'm in the "you don't have to take this any longer" club. However, as you've seen in this thread: Be smart. See an attorney with your questions before you do anything (can you move out with the kids? how do you minimize risk of having to pay alimony?). Separate your premarital money and get his name off of these accounts, so you know what you have and that it can't go missing. Organize your finances so you could move out and set up with the kids.

Sry: hit send too fast.

That last thought is to set up your finances so you could move out. This may mean moving your wages into a direct deposit account you control. It may mean selling your current residence so that money is available for you to buy a new (probably smaller) home. These things are very visible, so do the other items first and then turn to this once you know what your plan actually is.

I'm in the "you don't have to take this any longer" club. However, as you've seen in this thread: Be smart. See an attorney with your questions before you do anything (can you move out with the kids? how do you minimize risk of having to pay alimony?). Separate your premarital money and get his name off of these accounts, so you know what you have and that it can't go missing. Organize your finances so you could move out and set up with the kids.

I'd let it go for as long as he can collect unemployment. For whatever reason I've seen unemployment turn the best of men into puddling, useless, angry disasters. I'd try my best to let him settle things out himself if at all possible and not say a thing. Even though you want to kill him in his sleep...
I would not want his rage turned in your direction. Just let him work things out.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He got a job in August 2013 and lost it again exactly two years later (August 2015). Here I am again...he's unemployed and doesn't do anything other than blame me for his low self esteem. I'm holding my breath for him to get a job because now I'm clear that I am not the one for him. He needs someone much more giving than I am. Sad for my kid. Hope he gets a job soon. We fight all the time and are in counseling.

Assuming he's depressed, how can I help him get on the job search if I don't feel very much empathy for him? I want empathy but my resentment gets in the way: I don't know what he does all day. He doesn't do daycare as we pay for afterschool. He doesn't cook. He doesn't clean. He rarely does errands. He doesn't manage playdates, summer camp planning, etc. He doesn't walk the dog. He won't sit down with me and figure out a way to cut expenses so we can at least live within the new income level (mine). He keeps buying bottled water, luxury juices, glass bottled milk ($7 a quart). He says I don't appreciate him because he does things that I don't see, but he won't tell me what those are.

OMG....he would get a time limit and if nothing changed he would be GONE!

Anonymous wrote:I know this sounds horrible, but the fact that my DH has been unable to earn decent money for many years has made him less "sexy" to me. There it is. Flame away.

He wouldn't be getting any sex if he was purposely slacking as I suspect.

OP here. He got a job in August 2013 and lost it again exactly two years later (August 2015). Here I am again...he's unemployed and doesn't do anything other than blame me for his low self esteem. I'm holding my breath for him to get a job because now I'm clear that I am not the one for him. He needs someone much more giving than I am. Sad for my kid. Hope he gets a job soon. We fight all the time and are in counseling.

Assuming he's depressed, how can I help him get on the job search if I don't feel very much empathy for him? I want empathy but my resentment gets in the way: I don't know what he does all day. He doesn't do daycare as we pay for afterschool. He doesn't cook. He doesn't clean. He rarely does errands. He doesn't manage playdates, summer camp planning, etc. He doesn't walk the dog. He won't sit down with me and figure out a way to cut expenses so we can at least live within the new income level (mine). He keeps buying bottled water, luxury juices, glass bottled milk ($7 a quart). He says I don't appreciate him because he does things that I don't see, but he won't tell me what those are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I had an XH who was unemployed because he quit a job (not because he was fired.) He did not look for a replacement job. He sat around at home. I tried this poster's advice: he turned into the SAHD and took over laundry. HOWEVER, here's what you need to know if your marriage fails.

1) Your DH will get custody or a greatly enhanced preference in the courts for custody.
2) If you have been married more than 5 years, you may owe him alimony for "giving up his career to devote himself to the kids."
3) You will be ordered to pay child support to your DH because he will have no income and most of the custodial time.
4) Your efforts to provide for the family will be misconstrued by the judge and court as "putting your career first."

If you doubt what I am writing, you should consult privately with a divorce attorney and/or read the book WHAT EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT DIVORCE.

So... proceed very carefully here. I wish I had insisted on sending kids to daycare (even though it would have been a financial hit) and documented his voluntary underemployed choices.

OMG thank you so much. Sometimes I think that I will have to get a less flexible job because DH seems unable/unwilling to work. But, in truth, I picture myself moving back to where my family lives if I am going to do this. Now I realize that, of course, DH would be putting himself out there as the SAHD if I did that and left him. Good to clear up that little fantasy of self-sufficiency.

If you can leave with the kids, I think you'd be OK. If you have to stay, then make sure kids are in daycare so he cannot set himself up as a SAHD.

Document all your efforts to encourage career counseling, to send him jobs to apply to, the fact that the kids are in daycare so that his career can continue, etc.

If you have to keep working, make sure you do everything you can to set yourself up as available for the kids. Resist the temptation to think "he's doing nothing, he can take them to the doctor." Try to think much more creatively, so that it's clear you're available and present for the kids. I'd do things like document a request for a flex day, so you can get kids to the doctor and then work afternoon and evening; I'd do things like bake their classroom cupcakes with them and photograph; etc.

In other words, basically it's a horrible thing but you have act like you're a single mom now, so that you would be able to retain custody.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Argh! Do you have kids?

If he wants to be a SAHD, fine, draw up a list of responsibilities and hand them to him.

I'll help get you started:

Laundry
Dishes
Home cooked meal every week day
Yard work
Bills
House maintenance/home improvement
Christmas/Birthday/Holiday shopping and gift-buying
Bathrooms!!!

I was this poster 5 years ago. I had an XH who was unemployed because he quit a job (not because he was fired.) He did not look for a replacement job. He sat around at home. I tried this poster's advice: he turned into the SAHD and took over laundry. HOWEVER, here's what you need to know if your marriage fails.

1) Your DH will get custody or a greatly enhanced preference in the courts for custody.
2) If you have been married more than 5 years, you may owe him alimony for "giving up his career to devote himself to the kids."
3) You will be ordered to pay child support to your DH because he will have no income and most of the custodial time.
4) Your efforts to provide for the family will be misconstrued by the judge and court as "putting your career first."

If you doubt what I am writing, you should consult privately with a divorce attorney and/or read the book WHAT EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT DIVORCE.

So... proceed very carefully here. I wish I had insisted on sending kids to daycare (even though it would have been a financial hit) and documented his voluntary underemployed choices.

So, he would be entitled to exactly what a SAHM would be entitled to in a more conventional situation.

How unjust.

There is a difference between families in which they mutually agree that one parent (either man or woman) will SAH because that's in the best interests of the family and a family in which one adult unilaterally makes this decision. In teh case of the former, I'd very much back the need for the SAH parent to have support--whether they were a man or a woman.

If the case of the later, the parent who is acting unilaterally is exploiting the other person in the partnership. I don't think freeloaders should be rewarded and that's true of men and women alike.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Argh! Do you have kids?

If he wants to be a SAHD, fine, draw up a list of responsibilities and hand them to him.

I'll help get you started:

Laundry
Dishes
Home cooked meal every week day
Yard work
Bills
House maintenance/home improvement
Christmas/Birthday/Holiday shopping and gift-buying
Bathrooms!!!

I was this poster 5 years ago. I had an XH who was unemployed because he quit a job (not because he was fired.) He did not look for a replacement job. He sat around at home. I tried this poster's advice: he turned into the SAHD and took over laundry. HOWEVER, here's what you need to know if your marriage fails.

1) Your DH will get custody or a greatly enhanced preference in the courts for custody.
2) If you have been married more than 5 years, you may owe him alimony for "giving up his career to devote himself to the kids."
3) You will be ordered to pay child support to your DH because he will have no income and most of the custodial time.
4) Your efforts to provide for the family will be misconstrued by the judge and court as "putting your career first."

If you doubt what I am writing, you should consult privately with a divorce attorney and/or read the book WHAT EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT DIVORCE.

So... proceed very carefully here. I wish I had insisted on sending kids to daycare (even though it would have been a financial hit) and documented his voluntary underemployed choices.

OMG thank you so much. Sometimes I think that I will have to get a less flexible job because DH seems unable/unwilling to work. But, in truth, I picture myself moving back to where my family lives if I am going to do this. Now I realize that, of course, DH would be putting himself out there as the SAHD if I did that and left him. Good to clear up that little fantasy of self-sufficiency.

I was in this situation, though it was my wife who was unemployed and depressed and did nothing. I basically kept the kids in daycare (eventually aftercare at school) and operated as a single parent. For two years. I also documented in emails my attempts to encourage my wife to work. She also made it clear she did not want to be home full time with the kids. There were emails about that as well. I tried to support my wife, but she was mired in depression, refused therapy, refused to make changes and was sort of this albatross. She would sleep all day, stay up all night frittering away and then rinse repeat. It was horrible.

Long story short, we divorced because I gave up trying to get her help and she tried to play into the I am the default parent, SAHM, gave up my career tactic. It backfired massively. The guardian ad litem and the court saw through this completely. I have sole physical custody (they spend a few weeks in the summer with her). I also didn't have to pay alimony since she impoverished herself. She sends a bit in child support, but still doesn't work (left DC and moved back in with her parents). The day the divorce decree was signed was the best damn day in my life.

OP, if you divorce, be smart. Line up your ducks. Don't let your emotions get into it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Argh! Do you have kids?

If he wants to be a SAHD, fine, draw up a list of responsibilities and hand them to him.

I'll help get you started:

Laundry
Dishes
Home cooked meal every week day
Yard work
Bills
House maintenance/home improvement
Christmas/Birthday/Holiday shopping and gift-buying
Bathrooms!!!

I was this poster 5 years ago. I had an XH who was unemployed because he quit a job (not because he was fired.) He did not look for a replacement job. He sat around at home. I tried this poster's advice: he turned into the SAHD and took over laundry. HOWEVER, here's what you need to know if your marriage fails.

1) Your DH will get custody or a greatly enhanced preference in the courts for custody.
2) If you have been married more than 5 years, you may owe him alimony for "giving up his career to devote himself to the kids."
3) You will be ordered to pay child support to your DH because he will have no income and most of the custodial time.
4) Your efforts to provide for the family will be misconstrued by the judge and court as "putting your career first."

If you doubt what I am writing, you should consult privately with a divorce attorney and/or read the book WHAT EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT DIVORCE.

So... proceed very carefully here. I wish I had insisted on sending kids to daycare (even though it would have been a financial hit) and documented his voluntary underemployed choices.

OMG thank you so much. Sometimes I think that I will have to get a less flexible job because DH seems unable/unwilling to work. But, in truth, I picture myself moving back to where my family lives if I am going to do this. Now I realize that, of course, DH would be putting himself out there as the SAHD if I did that and left him. Good to clear up that little fantasy of self-sufficiency.

Anonymous wrote:I know this sounds horrible, but the fact that my DH has been unable to earn decent money for many years has made him less "sexy" to me. There it is. Flame away.

Are you kidding? I feel like I have a college dropout son in the house because of unemployed DH. He can't figure out why my sex drive has dried up. I finally had to tell him it's him, not me. Not attracted at all. He has looked for jobs, but is pretty deluded about what he is going to get. I have basically just started to see him as a lazy loser.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Argh! Do you have kids?

If he wants to be a SAHD, fine, draw up a list of responsibilities and hand them to him.

I'll help get you started:

Laundry
Dishes
Home cooked meal every week day
Yard work
Bills
House maintenance/home improvement
Christmas/Birthday/Holiday shopping and gift-buying
Bathrooms!!!

I was this poster 5 years ago. I had an XH who was unemployed because he quit a job (not because he was fired.) He did not look for a replacement job. He sat around at home. I tried this poster's advice: he turned into the SAHD and took over laundry. HOWEVER, here's what you need to know if your marriage fails.

1) Your DH will get custody or a greatly enhanced preference in the courts for custody.
2) If you have been married more than 5 years, you may owe him alimony for "giving up his career to devote himself to the kids."
3) You will be ordered to pay child support to your DH because he will have no income and most of the custodial time.
4) Your efforts to provide for the family will be misconstrued by the judge and court as "putting your career first."

If you doubt what I am writing, you should consult privately with a divorce attorney and/or read the book WHAT EVERY WOMAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT DIVORCE.

So... proceed very carefully here. I wish I had insisted on sending kids to daycare (even though it would have been a financial hit) and documented his voluntary underemployed choices.

So, he would be entitled to exactly what a SAHM would be entitled to in a more conventional situation.

How unjust.

When the wage gaps is reversed, then and only then can men try to claim injustice. Until then, shut the hell up.