Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not what I am saying. Sorry if I was not completely clear. In MS algebra, the student receives a grade based his performance on assessments. It's possible that he can fully comprehend the material, but choose to put forth no effort on the test, and therefore fail. The teacher couldn't just say "But I know he knows it, he gets an A." If the same student were in 3rd grade and put forth no effort on an assessment, it is the teacher's job to find another way for him to show that he knows the material (through the "mutiple and varied ways of assessment"), especially if the teacher is confident that the student has in fact mastered the material. Obviously if the student receives an A in MS algebra, he has acquired the skills AND shown that he has acquired the skills. But if he fails, it does not automatically mean that he has not acquired the skills; it means that he has not shown that he has. Similarly, a student in high school could have great understanding of social studies, but rush through essays or tests and not try very hard. Therefore her grade reflects the effort she put into demonstrating what she knows. In elementary school, she should receive a P (or ES) because she IS proficient in that concept. The teacher just needs to find a way for her to demonstrate that.

The elementary report card is showing what the student has learned. MS/HS is showing what the student has done.

Like I said, this is the way of thinking with the new report cards, not a perfect representation. I don't find it meaningless, just different than it was in previous years. If you look at it in this way, it makes more sense. If you don't want to look at it in this way, you will be just as baffled/outraged/frustrated as before.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:45 here - My ES in math kid tends to go crazy on math assignments...he does the basic work but then writes almost proofs or long explanations of what he's doing, spontaneously provides other examples, gives the teacher new problem sets on the back. He also uses much larger numbers than the worksheets might suggest, so if it is a simple thing on even and odds (just an example, this is something they did much earlier in the year), he will compare numbers in the millions or something with decimals, etc. He also does things with negative numbers, fractions, etc. He basically just challenges himself for fun on the worksheets.

Thats great and exactly what I think ES is intended to be... not just that everything was done correctly but that student went above and beyond what was asked for...

I think it's great this child does this, but crazy that that would be required for an ES. Kids, by their nature, usually don't go and make up their own school work. Also, many kids (even in 3rd grade) are balancing school, sports, family life and other activity. Frankly, in our house, our oldest is like the child described above, and I often have to say -- "stop, think about your time. If you want to go to basketball practice, just finish the worksheet as asked and stop going beyond. You can do beyond, later after practice on your own."

Also, on a policy level, it's not appropriate to have ES be for non-explicit criteria (i.e. going beyond and answering questions that aren't even on the worksheet). In many cultures this wouldn't even be within the realm of expectations. And, there's really no way to "grade" what is offered beyond the worksheet.

Why are you (people) obsessed with ES?!?! In my opinion WAAAYYY too many A's are given out to where its meaningless. It should be rare to get a top grade.

In the end it doesn't really matter, if you are proficient you are proficient. People show proficiency in different ways. The kid with the ES is not over your child. Gosh..

Here is my take. If your DC is performing way above grade level, you will know it. You will hear about it constantly. Everyone, I mean everyone, will tell you so: from principal to guidance counselor to teachers, from parents who have your child over for play dates to coaches and music instructors. People will use words like “phenomenal,” “brilliant,” and “incredible” to describe your DC. People will tell you’ve they’ve rarely, if ever, come across anything like your child.
I have two children in elementary school. One is as described above and the other is a more typical, still smart MCPS student. If I had only the second one, I would think he was gifted. But I have a stark comparison in my home every day of the week. And yes, the gifted child got almost all ES’s and my other one, who is also very bright, got all P’s. They are both getting a lot out of school and really enjoying the curriculum.
I feel like we should all lighten up.

Anonymous wrote:Here is my take. If your DC is performing way above grade level, you will know it. You will hear about it constantly. Everyone, I mean everyone, will tell you so: from principal to guidance counselor to teachers, from parents who have your child over for play dates to coaches and music instructors. People will use words like “phenomenal,” “brilliant,” and “incredible” to describe your DC. People will tell you’ve they’ve rarely, if ever, come across anything like your child.
I have two children in elementary school. One is as described above and the other is a more typical, still smart MCPS student. If I had only the second one, I would think he was gifted. But I have a stark comparison in my home every day of the week. And yes, the gifted child got almost all ES’s and my other one, who is also very bright, got all P’s. They are both getting a lot out of school and really enjoying the curriculum.
I feel like we should all lighten up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that's the point. Elementary school (in this school of thought, not saying I agree or disagree) is to acquire skills and show that you acquired them. They need to learn the material. If it takes them 10 tries or 2 tries, they need to become "proficient." Once they have learned it, time to move to something else, or go deeper. It's a different mindset than in MS/HS, where students learn the matieral and then get graded on what they choose to do. In a perfect world in which all students learn everything they are taught, the grading system of MS/HS is really grading effort. The elementary school system with these report cards is showing what they have actually learned. The work study skills grades tell you about their effort, which is essentially they part the student has the most control over. That's what I immedaitely turn to now when report cards come home.

This is exactly why I hate this new grading system and curriculum. Effort that leads to achievement should be rewarded over achievement that required little effort. If the ESs are only given when a child goes beyond any material spontaneously then it isn't effort driven, its interest driven. I believe that education is about rewarding merit not inheritance. Education is about opening opportunities for everyone. Kids should be learning in elementary school that if you keep trying and work hard you will able to achieve the highest level. Kids get ESs in subjects where they have natural talents but there is no motivation at all for them to do anything but the minimum in other subjects. They are not working harder in areas where they get ESs, the subjects simply are ones where they are more talented or have independent interest.

But the point of the elementary "grading" is not to reward, really. It is to show where the students are. There is a clear difference between the elementary and MS/HS report cards. I agree with much of what you are saying, maybe all of it. The report card is a report: this is what your child knows. Your child has master this, this and this, and has not yet mastered this and this. In MS/MS, the report card shows what your child knows AND what they are demonstrating they know. My use of the word "effort" was not to convey that effort is all that counts, or that students can get As for simply trying really, really hard. I meant that students who do NOT receive top grades may know the material but choose not to put forth the effort to show it. The elementary school report is meant to side-step this, and report what the student knows, even if they put forth very little effort to show that they know it.

The elementary report card is not about "achieving the highest level." This could be a flaw, but it is important to understand this. There is a different mindset from elementary to MS/HS. I would not argue that this system would be beneficial in MS/HS, and even in upper elementary I'm not 100% convinced it will be better than the traditional grading system. Yes, kids will receive ESs in a subject for which they have a natural talent and perhaps do very little, because ES means they have shown exceptional understanding. They understand and "get it." Doesn't mean they've done anything. Maybe a case for moving away from rewarding young children for grades.

Anonymous wrote:

I think that's the point. Elementary school (in this school of thought, not saying I agree or disagree) is to acquire skills and show that you acquired them. They need to learn the material. If it takes them 10 tries or 2 tries, they need to become "proficient." Once they have learned it, time to move to something else, or go deeper. It's a different mindset than in MS/HS, where students learn the matieral and then get graded on what they choose to do. In a perfect world in which all students learn everything they are taught, the grading system of MS/HS is really grading effort. The elementary school system with these report cards is showing what they have actually learned. The work study skills grades tell you about their effort, which is essentially they part the student has the most control over. That's what I immedaitely turn to now when report cards come home.

This is exactly why I hate this new grading system and curriculum. Effort that leads to achievement should be rewarded over achievement that required little effort. If the ESs are only given when a child goes beyond any material spontaneously then it isn't effort driven, its interest driven. I believe that education is about rewarding merit not inheritance. Education is about opening opportunities for everyone. Kids should be learning in elementary school that if you keep trying and work hard you will able to achieve the highest level. Kids get ESs in subjects where they have natural talents but there is no motivation at all for them to do anything but the minimum in other subjects. They are not working harder in areas where they get ESs, the subjects simply are ones where they are more talented or have independent interest.

Anonymous wrote:

I think that's the point. Elementary school (in this school of thought, not saying I agree or disagree) is to acquire skills and show that you acquired them. They need to learn the material. If it takes them 10 tries or 2 tries, they need to become "proficient." Once they have learned it, time to move to something else, or go deeper. It's a different mindset than in MS/HS, where students learn the matieral and then get graded on what they choose to do. In a perfect world in which all students learn everything they are taught, the grading system of MS/HS is really grading effort. The elementary school system with these report cards is showing what they have actually learned. The work study skills grades tell you about their effort, which is essentially they part the student has the most control over. That's what I immedaitely turn to now when report cards come home.

This is exactly why I hate this new grading system and curriculum. Effort that leads to achievement should be rewarded over achievement that required little effort. If the ESs are only given when a child goes beyond any material spontaneously then it isn't effort driven, its interest driven. I believe that education is about rewarding merit not inheritance. Education is about opening opportunities for everyone. Kids should be learning in elementary school that if you keep trying and work hard you will able to achieve the highest level. Kids get ESs in subjects where they have natural talents but there is no motivation at all for them to do anything but the minimum in other subjects. They are not working harder in areas where they get ESs, the subjects simply are ones where they are more talented or have independent interest.

Anonymous wrote:

I think that's the point. Elementary school (in this school of thought, not saying I agree or disagree) is to acquire skills and show that you acquired them. They need to learn the material. If it takes them 10 tries or 2 tries, they need to become "proficient." Once they have learned it, time to move to something else, or go deeper. It's a different mindset than in MS/HS, where students learn the matieral and then get graded on what they choose to do. In a perfect world in which all students learn everything they are taught, the grading system of MS/HS is really grading effort. The elementary school system with these report cards is showing what they have actually learned. The work study skills grades tell you about their effort, which is essentially they part the student has the most control over. That's what I immedaitely turn to now when report cards come home.

This is exactly why I hate this new grading system and curriculum. Effort that leads to achievement should be rewarded over achievement that required little effort. If the ESs are only given when a child goes beyond any material spontaneously then it isn't effort driven, its interest driven. I believe that education is about rewarding merit not inheritance. Education is about opening opportunities for everyone. Kids should be learning in elementary school that if you keep trying and work hard you will able to achieve the highest level. Kids get ESs in subjects where they have natural talents but there is no motivation at all for them to do anything but the minimum in other subjects. They are not working harder in areas where they get ESs, the subjects simply are ones where they are more talented or have independent interest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the lady who thinks you can't establish any criteria for grading essays: all you have to do is google grading essays and you'll get plenty of hits. Lots of standardized tests include an essay. The SAT includes an essay and you can see info online about how the essay needs to be written in order to get full credit.

No kidding... The SAT has an essay you say...

The fact that the SAT requires 2 different evaluators and possibly a third shows you how subjective it is by nature. The wording used "demonstrates consistent mastery", " reasonably consistent mastery" is what way gives confidence that a writer knows what is expected/ required? Furthermore how is this any different than wording found in 2.0 literature.

Nice try though

I think that's the point. Elementary school (in this school of thought, not saying I agree or disagree) is to acquire skills and show that you acquired them. They need to learn the material. If it takes them 10 tries or 2 tries, they need to become "proficient." Once they have learned it, time to move to something else, or go deeper. It's a different mindset than in MS/HS, where students learn the matieral and then get graded on what they choose to do. In a perfect world in which all students learn everything they are taught, the grading system of MS/HS is really grading effort. The elementary school system with these report cards is showing what they have actually learned. The work study skills grades tell you about their effort, which is essentially they part the student has the most control over. That's what I immedaitely turn to now when report cards come home.

Anonymous wrote:To the lady who thinks you can't establish any criteria for grading essays: all you have to do is google grading essays and you'll get plenty of hits. Lots of standardized tests include an essay. The SAT includes an essay and you can see info online about how the essay needs to be written in order to get full credit.