Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 14:28     Subject: Re:s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).


Not quite sure how you meant it, but to clarify on the figures - and to point out that out-of-state is simply unsustainable for many now, the different is $6-$9K for tuition for VA instate x 4 years (if lucky) = $36,000 plus room and board x 4 years. (We are close enough to the university, that if necessary, DC could commute). To attend my old so-so alma mater (including room and board) is $56K a year x standard five years to finish (need to do a year abroad, can't get necessary classes, etc.) = $280,000 plus four or five years of air travel. Yes, many colleges hand out some financial aid but it is a drop in the bucket. And we are boring middle class white people.

My #s were based on an (out of state) state scoool. Our bottom line cost is about $32,000. UVA publishes cost of attendance to be $24,000 per yr for VA residents.


That's including room and board.

Correct. That's comparing bottom line cost of attendance for an OOS state/public colleges and UVa instate.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 14:19     Subject: Re:s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Pretty sure you have this wrong. Harvard STOPPED early decision in 2006, feeling it was unfair to those needing to compare financial aid offers, Princeton and I believe at one point UVa followed, but the problem was that no one else did. Stanford and Yale had "single choice early action" which gave admission early but did not require the student to attend, but could only apply to one school early (besides a state university). Eventually Harvard and Princeton, realizing they were losing students to schools with ED and EA and that no other top schools had followed their lead, began offering "single choice" non-binding early action as well for the class of 2012. So now other than the military academies, there are few to no schools left without binding early decision or non-binding early action. All the other Ivys had binding early decision programs throughout this period.

In the top LACs and the non-HYPS Ivys, applying ED gives kids a large advantage, a much higher percentage of kids are accepted when they apply ED versus regular decision, although in part that may be accounted for by recruited athletes who have to apply early to keep their "spot" generally.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 13:55     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Harvard law grad here. What Harvard did was try Early Decision, which was binding, as opposed to what we did for an in-state VA school, called Early action, which is not binding. I followed the movement closely in the University's magazine. It worked well for Harvard because it got the class it wanted immediately, and several of the Ivies followed like Princeton and Stanford, but it became clear that the move had set up a two deadline system in the U.S. Kids that had their acts together and were better prepped and ready to go applied E.D. to Harvard and those offering it. The rest slopped in their applications in January. The other colleges and universities hate it because those Ivies offering ED took the cream of the crop. Kids hated it too. The only ones benefiting was the Harvard admissions office, so when charged of elitism and pandering to the wealthy, Harvard dropped ED. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_admission
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 13:46     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:To 11:15- then do a year and get 30 credits and then transfer. I'm just saying if my kids don't get into UMCP immediately, then they will take classes at mc and work for a semester or year and then transfer. Im not paying out of state tuition at a lesser school. The only thing that matters is where you get your degree.




This is an excellent idea. We are in VA and DS is going to GMU. We are going to knock off as many credits as possible with AP testing and then "make up" calculus programs at NOVA this summer to bring him up to speed (his private had a poor math program). May transfer to UVA two years from now. Have to test the waters.

Another option (don't know if true in MD) is to go to NOVA and if maintaining a certain GPA for two years, you get an auto. in to Virginia University of your choice.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 13:42     Subject: Re:s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS


Early Decision is another tool many of the college counselors don't tell you about. And yes, the GPA is usually a bit lower for ED students. Some of the SLACs now fill almost 50% of their first-year classes with ED admits. DC ended up on the waiting list at her two greatest reach schools. She's very happy where she ended up but sometimes wonders whether ED might have made the difference.




We did Early Action for in-state VA at one university only and made it clear that was our only choice. It worked! Stressless Christmas.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 13:38     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
You are quite correct. I met one of the Mrs. Perdue's (the one who made egg purses) so should not have made that mistake notwithstanding exhausted Friday brain.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 13:37     Subject: Re:s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

This is exactly why Naviance scattergram info is so important, at least for VA high schools and colleges, IMO. JMU admissions rep said kids from our local public really needed a 3.8 gpa to apply. At the time (5 years ago), VT accepted average 3.98 gpa from our public school. So in DS's experience, 3.6GPA/1800 SAT coming from a Va public HS puts you in the middle of the class. DS was denied at JMU and accepted to all the out of state schools where he applied and those were objectively "better" than JMU (higher average scores required for admission). He's very happy with the school he chose so it does all work out.
I'd check out one of the college fairs around and talk with the admissions rep from VT.


It would be interesting to look at the Common Data Set for comparison.

I have heard, though, that the dynamic at play at the VA state colleges and universities is that they could fill all their spots from Fairfax and Arlington counties if admissions were based on scores and GPA alone. So yes kids from northern VA (unless they have a "hook") are probably held to a higher standard.





This is quite correct. That's why you do have to pay attention to the scattergrams. It is almost impossible to get into UVA from Langley High School. However, if you were to apply from the southern or western part of the state, it would be a whole 'nother story.

By the way, for the mom who wants Perdue, it's Purdue not Perdue like the chicken magnet.


And it's magnate not magnet. My father went to Purdue and hated that he was from Indiana his whole life. He probably would have called the school a chicken magnet since in his day so many farm kids attended the school.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 13:35     Subject: Re:s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).


Not quite sure how you meant it, but to clarify on the figures - and to point out that out-of-state is simply unsustainable for many now, the different is $6-$9K for tuition for VA instate x 4 years (if lucky) = $36,000 plus room and board x 4 years. (We are close enough to the university, that if necessary, DC could commute). To attend my old so-so alma mater (including room and board) is $56K a year x standard five years to finish (need to do a year abroad, can't get necessary classes, etc.) = $280,000 plus four or five years of air travel. Yes, many colleges hand out some financial aid but it is a drop in the bucket. And we are boring middle class white people.

My #s were based on an (out of state) state scoool. Our bottom line cost is about $32,000. UVA publishes cost of attendance to be $24,000 per yr for VA residents.




That's including room and board.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 13:34     Subject: Re:s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:Thank you, when I looked at it it seemed off, but my Friday afternoon brain couldn't figure it out. Spelling is not our family's forte. (nor is typing )



Yeah, I know. Friday brain is the worst. But, funny story, and true: some kids apply to so many colleges they get sloppy with the online submissions. A director of admissions visiting at our schools said PLEASE PLEASE make sure you have changed the name of the school to which your are applying "I have always wanted to go to Carleton" when applying to Georgia Tech. and please please make sure you spell the name of the college correctly. Cracked me up. Our DS came home from school saying his college advisor told him to apply to DartMOUTH. Told him he had to get the pronunciation right before we apply.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 12:46     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
To 11:15- then do a year and get 30 credits and then transfer. I'm just saying if my kids don't get into UMCP immediately, then they will take classes at mc and work for a semester or year and then transfer. Im not paying out of state tuition at a lesser school. The only thing that matters is where you get your degree.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 11:23     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:I know people don't think UMBC is as good as UMD, but the President of UMBC, Freeman Hrbrowski, is absolutely amazing![/quote
+100000

He is so commited and extremely focused on STEM. I don't have college-age kids, but I worked with him to help UMBC with their federal grants and I wished I had gone there instead of GW, where I did my undergrad
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2013 11:15     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:It's easier to get into UMCP (or any school, really) if you apply for January admission. Take 15 credits at MC in the fall and apply to transfer. This is essentially the game plan for my kids. UMCP provides an excellent education for the money.


Some schools do not allow this, requiring 30 credits to transfer if the student is within one year of HS graduation. That happened to our DS, (who had that waived because of an application snafu). That was in Virginia, however. Know the rules before trying this strategy.
Anonymous
Post 02/02/2013 08:34     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
It's easier to get into UMCP (or any school, really) if you apply for January admission. Take 15 credits at MC in the fall and apply to transfer. This is essentially the game plan for my kids. UMCP provides an excellent education for the money.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2013 21:39     Subject: s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:I know people don't think UMBC is as good as UMD, but the President of UMBC, Freeman Hrbrowski, is absolutely amazing!


So utterly and completely true. He was on the board of an organization I worked for, and I was just in complete awe of him. And of course he's totally handsome, on top of being smart, savvy, etc. He has hired really great people at UMBC and they are doing all kinds of innovative things in the academic programs.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2013 21:23     Subject: Re:s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS


Early Decision is another tool many of the college counselors don't tell you about. And yes, the GPA is usually a bit lower for ED students. Some of the SLACs now fill almost 50% of their first-year classes with ED admits. DC ended up on the waiting list at her two greatest reach schools. She's very happy where she ended up but sometimes wonders whether ED might have made the difference.


ED is fine if you can afford to foot the whole bill. I have heard that it takes away some of the bargaining power/financial aid offers, even for merit aid.


Good point.


ED definitely takes away some of your bargaining power with the college. If you'll be full pay anyway (you don't think you'd qualify for FA) and if the college in question doesn't offer merit aid, then it may not matter to you. But it does mean that ED is a tool for wealthier families. I think Harvard experimented with early action a few years back, as an issue of fairness, but gave it up (I could be wrong about this).

ED definitely increases your chances of admission. As discussed earlier in the thread, colleges love kids who are committed to attending if accepted, and with ED you do actually promise to attend if accepted.