Anonymous wrote:This discussion is getting ridiculous: OP, if you feel this strong about keeping your child out, do it. My child started school at PK4 in this city; we are at a good school in the city. Also, as a PP suggested, start a school that starts at K. The rest of the discussion is pointless as public schools cannot get federal money for part-time programs that are part of a elementary school and the city is NOT going to take away PS3 and PK4 programs as the primary mission is to serve low-income families even though there are no income requirements for admittance.

1. I'd love it if you could provide a link to a good public or charter school in this city that begins at K.
2. Nobody wants to take away your PS / PK program. We just want to level the playing field for those kids entering the system later on, which I think WILL happen.
3. If this is discussion is so ridiculous, please feel free to exit stage right instead of trying to squash it.

This discussion is getting ridiculous: OP, if you feel this strong about keeping your child out, do it. My child started school at PK4 in this city; we are at a good school in the city. Also, as a PP suggested, start a school that starts at K. The rest of the discussion is pointless as public schools cannot get federal money for part-time programs that are part of a elementary school and the city is NOT going to take away PS3 and PK4 programs as the primary mission is to serve low-income families even though there are no income requirements for admittance.

Anonymous wrote:My DC did a 3 day part-time nursery school in Brooklyn. We moved to DC and were able to get him into a PK4 program at one of the popular charters. Also, I noticed that people switch in DC for K and 1st so I don't think it is impossible if you wait.

However, I think you should apply and see where you get in and make a decision then. Your child may be okay and surprise you. Many of the PS3 programs in DC are play-based. If you look at the actual schedule, they spend most of their time napping, eating and playing!

+1 (and back to original question) --

keep in mind that PK3-4 is not complusory. While the school rightly may object parents treating it like an ad hoc babysitting service, they're usually pretty tolerant and flexible of parents picking up early or adapting to their child's needs. "Full day" only lasts until 3-3:30. You can skip aftercare if that's an issue, or join aftercare at a later time (though you may want to reserve space earlier if limited, even if you don't fully utilize it). K and up is a different story, where attendance and being on-time are mandated. Keep in mind that private daycare/preschools usually offer full day and some parents pretty much come and go as they please.

Anonymous wrote:I think that it is absolutely wonderful that enough progress has been made in elementary education in DC that people are even having this discussion. To those of us who have been here watching and helping this movement, congratulations. To those who are just joining in and seeing new things that they would like to improve, welcome and I hope you can create the options that you want, but please try to give a little bit of credit to what has been done so far recently before you bad mouth what is here.

Actually, you’ve done a terrible job. So the entitlement you feel at your worse than mediocre performance, you won’t get from me. If you and “your work” was so stellar, there wouldn’t be so much traffic on this site. Many parents do not have a choice regarding when and where to send their children in 2013. That’s not progress. Our children are languishing in awful schools where the kids can’t read or are being forced to school too early so they won’t be screwed to get into school later. Some kids, not nearly the majority of the school get “lucky” via a vile lottery system that picks and chooses our children’s future path. This is a disgusting disservice to all children. What’s worse is the DCPS and WTU plants that come on this site, trolling around and most pathetically wanting affirmation for their horrible performance. The dysfunction over there- you just can’t make this stuff up. Do us a favor- go host a little awards ceremony for yourself in the privacy of your own home. Invite some folks, probably some other cronies who seek attention and affirmation for their awful performances where our children are cheated. I’ll even throw in a donation for your award- it’s chocolate, I promise!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am very much not a troll and I agree that there is a lot of entitlement on this thread. First, this is a poor city that had for many years extremely poor citizens. The city designed the free PS and PK as an offshoot of Head Start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it. It's great that you would prefer to have your child spend time with a nanny or you and only attend preschool part time. Then do that. But it is entitled to demand that the city offer you the free preschool that you want in addition to the free preschool that the city believes the poor children of this city need. Second, the problem that people seem to have really stems from your own decision to live in a neighborhood that does not offer a school that you find acceptable. Living here requires trade offs. If you choose to live in the biggest house you can afford in a transitional neighborhood then you have to play the lottery and take the full day PS and PK. If you want to pick your preschool and still have a guaranteed K then you will have to move to a neighborhood that allows that.

That's not the issue at all. I'd have been more than happy to continue to pay for private preschool. It's that by making that choice, I dramatically reduce my chances of getting into a good charter school or OOB for kindergarten. Because entry years are pre-S and pre-K, if you prefer to not use the full-day pre-K, options are significantly limited.

Yes, but since you have the choice to go private, then do what you think is best for your family (keep your kid home for PS and PK) and then if you don't get in, go to private! The DC public school system was really not set up to serve your income base anyway (since you can afford private daycare), but since all residents of DC have a right to private school, then everyone can apply and go. But to wish the structure of it would change to serve your middle or upper class family choices is ludicrous and clueless. And I say that as an upper middle-class parent.

If you win the school lottery in this town (in DCPCS or DCPS), you literally win the lottery and you should be grateful has heck that there is a school system that offers these kinds of great programs, not income-based, and that you have the choice to send your kids at all. If you have other options, then use them. So yes, you dramatically reduce your choices, that's how it is. You're lucky to have choices at all, and even though I know it's hard for middle and upper class people to tolerate "trade offs", it is good for society that once in a blue moon we have to experience them. Live with it.

Please take your head out of your ass. Seriously, just give it a try.

My family makes 60K a year. We are not upper class and I'm not sure we qualify as "middle class" in this city, though there are few cities where that logic would apply. Are you seriously that out of fucking touch with reality that you can't see that a family who might be able to save up and afford 2K per kid for two years for a private / coop preschool might not be able to pay 15K (rock bottom entry point by all accounts) for private for 12 more years? Holy shit. This is why people are accusing you of trolling. You are an upper middle class parent trying to school me on entitlement. LOL, lady! I am not GRATEFUL that these things are not income based, because I think they should be serving poor kids (Poorer than my family, in fact) and NOT providing a wealthy, entitled asswipe with free daycare. Goddamn, you are the dumbest person I've encountered on this site. Maybe you should go to school with your kids and learn to read?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see two lotteries - one for PS3 and PS4, and then a whole new set for all students at K, with no right to stay through unless you were at your IB school. This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

Yeah, I'll bet you'd like to see this. Thank goodness you're not making the decisions on this. This would be HUGELY unfair to the parents who have no choice to keep their kids home in Pre-S or Pre-K (because all adults are working out of home all day) and to actually think it's worth it to make those parents go through the hell of lotteries TWICE just so you guys can keep your kids home full or part time up to K is so unbelievably selfish, I'm stunned.

Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and this is what would work for you so yeah, you have every right to express it. I just find the lack of understanding around why there are free public schools in DC in the first place and why - once free pre-S and pre-K were established here - it would be unthinkable to make everyone go through it again for K and up.

LOL! Yes, your desire for free childcare trumps a parent's desire to not lose an extra year of childhood. I think who it is HUGELY unfair to depends squarely on your own scenario. Some of us who don't believe in full time preschool feel it is HUGELY unfair that we have to use services (and waste the govt's money) we don't want or need because the system is set up to meet your childcare needs, not mine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that it is absolutely wonderful that enough progress has been made in elementary education in DC that people are even having this discussion. To those of us who have been here watching and helping this movement, congratulations. To those who are just joining in and seeing new things that they would like to improve, welcome and I hope you can create the options that you want, but please try to give a little bit of credit to what has been done so far recently before you bad mouth what is here.

Oh come on!

I'll give you a ton of credit for creating options that work for your family, but that's it. Do not have the nerve to think that the situation you've helped to create works for every family. And do not think that the "improvements" you've made to the system don't have unintended consequences to other families. There are some good in-bounds schools now (not near me) and there are more and more charters competing with them for other kids, presenting other options (none attractive to me). Just because YOU think it is better because you've created an option that works for YOU does not mean it is inherently better.

To my mind, there is little in this world more dysfunctional than this city's school and charter and OOB system. It would be easier to improve the local in-bounds when the current families don't have a free alternative there is more incentive to stick with and fix the local schools. I love that the charter system has done exactly what all of us public school boosters said it would do, leaving fewer engaged families willing to give the local school their elbow grease. So - thanks for that?

I don't get it PP - you and the parents of DC had YEARS to "give the public schools your elbow grease" - what did you achieve? Why would it have been better to allow the students of DC public schools to have almost NO good options for even longer, over at least setting up a system that gives hundreds (thousands?) of kids much better options?

You speak as if you just needed one more week of elbow grease to make the local schools perform. You had years. How long for you would have been acceptable to do nothing and create no alternatives to give that "elbow grease" a try?

Maybe you don't get it because you're incapable of looking outside your own frame of reference. Plus, you didn't pay attention to what I said at all. By the time I had kids, there were so many charters that the critical mass it might take to effect some change at the local was eviscerated. The horse was already out of the gate long before I came to the race. But, congrats on being part of a system that makes it better for a very specific group of people. I'm not trying to take that away from you. But don't congratulate yourself too hard on making things better for my family because if anything, you made things worse for me. To answer your question quite simply: the advantage of "allowing" the students of DC public schools to keep the choice of attending the in-bounds or pay for private means that parents have a vested interest in putting their efforts behind the local schools. If there is an alternative, parents take it. The problem is that the easy out isn't equally easy for some families as it is for others. Anyway, your message is really silly here. I had years to fix the schools? Do you fancy you're talking to the mayor of DC here, or a parent who recently came on the scene and is dealing with a situation that's different from yours?

I will be in a similar situation in a year as the fretting parents of 3 year olds.

I have 3rd grader at a good DCPS school with no decent middle school option. So there will be pressure to lottery to Latin and Basis (which start in 5th) despite the fact that staying at our current DCPS school would be better for our family for another year.

I am lamenting slightly that things aren't set up to meet my family's needs. I should have an in boundary middle school that is not dangerous. But I'm not going to push my kid to do something he isn't ready for. I'm going to put off the lottery craziness for a year and let him be in elementary school through 5th.

If mid-summer after 5th grade, we have zero options, we will rent out our house and go ren t a house in Virginia. I doubt this will happen.

Do what's best for your kid. Do the lotteries when you are ready to send your kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see two lotteries - one for PS3 and PS4, and then a whole new set for all students at K, with no right to stay through unless you were at your IB school. This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

Yeah, I'll bet you'd like to see this. Thank goodness you're not making the decisions on this. This would be HUGELY unfair to the parents who have no choice to keep their kids home in Pre-S or Pre-K (because all adults are working out of home all day) and to actually think it's worth it to make those parents go through the hell of lotteries TWICE just so you guys can keep your kids home full or part time up to K is so unbelievably selfish, I'm stunned.

Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and this is what would work for you so yeah, you have every right to express it. I just find the lack of understanding around why there are free public schools in DC in the first place and why - once free pre-S and pre-K were established here - it would be unthinkable to make everyone go through it again for K and up.

Actually, it's not selfish at all. There are SO many parents who ONLY put their kids into PS and PK for the "free daycare," then pull them out at K either to move to the burbs or to go to their IB school that it creates a de facto K lottery anyway. You see it all over DCUM, "it's fine to leave your kid at XYZ charter or neighborhood school until K or 1, but you need to move before grades 1 or 2." People are already going through the "hell of lotteries" year after year, in case you hadn't noticed.

Where do you get the idea that parents would HAVE to keep their kids home? That's nonsense. This might actually free up spaces from parents who would like to keep their kids home at 3 or 4 but feel pressured to send their kids to school in order to hold a spot. Please read thoroughly before you comment, thanks.

That's fine to participate in the system as it is - if you want to put your kid in for the free daycare and pull out for K, fine. And yes, that does open up spots to people who weren't lucky enough to get in in PS and PK. The selfish ar comes from the idea that DC public schools should change to offer a part time option, or to lament the lack of that part time option. You have the right to lament or complain, but to me it's selfish.

Not sure what you mean on point of parents having to keep their kids home? What I meant was that the majority of parents sending their kids to public school do NOT have the option of keeping their kids home - they are working and cannot stay home with their kids even if they wanted to. To change it so that even fewer full schoolday slots are available would be screwing those parents who need full schoolday slots. (Never mind the fact that part-day isn't an option for public schools b/c of funding, but that's a side issue to the conversation here where people want it to be different).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that it is absolutely wonderful that enough progress has been made in elementary education in DC that people are even having this discussion. To those of us who have been here watching and helping this movement, congratulations. To those who are just joining in and seeing new things that they would like to improve, welcome and I hope you can create the options that you want, but please try to give a little bit of credit to what has been done so far recently before you bad mouth what is here.

Oh come on!

I'll give you a ton of credit for creating options that work for your family, but that's it. Do not have the nerve to think that the situation you've helped to create works for every family. And do not think that the "improvements" you've made to the system don't have unintended consequences to other families. There are some good in-bounds schools now (not near me) and there are more and more charters competing with them for other kids, presenting other options (none attractive to me). Just because YOU think it is better because you've created an option that works for YOU does not mean it is inherently better.

To my mind, there is little in this world more dysfunctional than this city's school and charter and OOB system. It would be easier to improve the local in-bounds when the current families don't have a free alternative there is more incentive to stick with and fix the local schools. I love that the charter system has done exactly what all of us public school boosters said it would do, leaving fewer engaged families willing to give the local school their elbow grease.

So - thanks for that?

You would not even be considering sending your children to these schools at any age were it not for the recent improvements. I'm sorry that the world is not creted to meet your desires pefectly, and you must make choices based on what actually exists. That must be difficult for you.

should you play the lottery? Yes, go for it and good luck! Your child may really surprize you and enjoy early schooling. If not, pull out and go with something else. In addition, how about you try to start a charter school that mirrors the charter school you like, but has a K start year? You could gauge interest by starting a new post that says something like "I want a Mundo Verde/Yu Ying/Creative Minds that starts at K-- anyone interested in joining me?" I believe that many DC charters were started by folks just like you that wanted to provide something that no one schools were providing. You can do it too! Starting now, such a school could be up and running by the time your child is ready to start K. Afterall, you would likely be cribbing substantially from an already approved and successful charter.
Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see two lotteries - one for PS3 and PS4, and then a whole new set for all students at K, with no right to stay through unless you were at your IB school. This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

Yeah, I'll bet you'd like to see this. Thank goodness you're not making the decisions on this. This would be HUGELY unfair to the parents who have no choice to keep their kids home in Pre-S or Pre-K (because all adults are working out of home all day) and to actually think it's worth it to make those parents go through the hell of lotteries TWICE just so you guys can keep your kids home full or part time up to K is so unbelievably selfish, I'm stunned.

Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and this is what would work for you so yeah, you have every right to express it. I just find the lack of understanding around why there are free public schools in DC in the first place and why - once free pre-S and pre-K were established here - it would be unthinkable to make everyone go through it again for K and up.

Actually, it's not selfish at all. There are SO many parents who ONLY put their kids into PS and PK for the "free daycare," then pull them out at K either to move to the burbs or to go to their IB school that it creates a de facto K lottery anyway. You see it all over DCUM, "it's fine to leave your kid at XYZ charter or neighborhood school until K or 1, but you need to move before grades 1 or 2." People are already going through the "hell of lotteries" year after year, in case you hadn't noticed.

Where do you get the idea that parents would HAVE to keep their kids home? That's nonsense. This might actually free up spaces from parents who would like to keep their kids home at 3 or 4 but feel pressured to send their kids to school in order to hold a spot. Please read thoroughly before you comment, thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am very much not a troll and I agree that there is a lot of entitlement on this thread. First, this is a poor city that had for many years extremely poor citizens. The city designed the free PS and PK as an offshoot of Head Start to provide free early education to kids whose parents can't afford it. It's great that you would prefer to have your child spend time with a nanny or you and only attend preschool part time. Then do that. But it is entitled to demand that the city offer you the free preschool that you want in addition to the free preschool that the city believes the poor children of this city need. Second, the problem that people seem to have really stems from your own decision to live in a neighborhood that does not offer a school that you find acceptable. Living here requires trade offs. If you choose to live in the biggest house you can afford in a transitional neighborhood then you have to play the lottery and take the full day PS and PK. If you want to pick your preschool and still have a guaranteed K then you will have to move to a neighborhood that allows that.

That's not the issue at all. I'd have been more than happy to continue to pay for private preschool. It's that by making that choice, I dramatically reduce my chances of getting into a good charter school or OOB for kindergarten. Because entry years are pre-S and pre-K, if you prefer to not use the full-day pre-K, options are significantly limited.

Yes, but since you have the choice to go private, then do what you think is best for your family (keep your kid home for PS and PK) and then if you don't get in, go to private! The DC public school system was really not set up to serve your income base anyway (since you can afford private daycare), but since all residents of DC have a right to private school, then everyone can apply and go. But to wish the structure of it would change to serve your middle or upper class family choices is ludicrous and clueless. And I say that as an upper middle-class parent.

If you win the school lottery in this town (in DCPCS or DCPS), you literally win the lottery and you should be grateful has heck that there is a school system that offers these kinds of great programs, not income-based, and that you have the choice to send your kids at all. If you have other options, then use them. So yes, you dramatically reduce your choices, that's how it is. You're lucky to have choices at all, and even though I know it's hard for middle and upper class people to tolerate "trade offs", it is good for society that once in a blue moon we have to experience them. Live with it.

Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see two lotteries - one for PS3 and PS4, and then a whole new set for all students at K, with no right to stay through unless you were at your IB school. This would give people the all-day care they need for 3's and 4's without all the stress of trying to pick a philosophy, a language, a feeder program and a commute they could live with forever at such an early age.

Yes, the kids would likely change schools for K, but that has historically been the case when kids transitioned from preschool to kindergarten. And I say this as a Stokes parent who did get lucky in the lottery, but would have liked to keep my daughter home another year without losing our spot.

Yeah, I'll bet you'd like to see this. Thank goodness you're not making the decisions on this. This would be HUGELY unfair to the parents who have no choice to keep their kids home in Pre-S or Pre-K (because all adults are working out of home all day) and to actually think it's worth it to make those parents go through the hell of lotteries TWICE just so you guys can keep your kids home full or part time up to K is so unbelievably selfish, I'm stunned.

Of course, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and this is what would work for you so yeah, you have every right to express it. I just find the lack of understanding around why there are free public schools in DC in the first place and why - once free pre-S and pre-K were established here - it would be unthinkable to make everyone go through it again for K and up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that it is absolutely wonderful that enough progress has been made in elementary education in DC that people are even having this discussion. To those of us who have been here watching and helping this movement, congratulations. To those who are just joining in and seeing new things that they would like to improve, welcome and I hope you can create the options that you want, but please try to give a little bit of credit to what has been done so far recently before you bad mouth what is here.

Oh come on!

I'll give you a ton of credit for creating options that work for your family, but that's it. Do not have the nerve to think that the situation you've helped to create works for every family. And do not think that the "improvements" you've made to the system don't have unintended consequences to other families. There are some good in-bounds schools now (not near me) and there are more and more charters competing with them for other kids, presenting other options (none attractive to me). Just because YOU think it is better because you've created an option that works for YOU does not mean it is inherently better.

To my mind, there is little in this world more dysfunctional than this city's school and charter and OOB system. It would be easier to improve the local in-bounds when the current families don't have a free alternative there is more incentive to stick with and fix the local schools. I love that the charter system has done exactly what all of us public school boosters said it would do, leaving fewer engaged families willing to give the local school their elbow grease. So - thanks for that?

I don't get it PP - you and the parents of DC had YEARS to "give the public schools your elbow grease" - what did you achieve? Why would it have been better to allow the students of DC public schools to have almost NO good options for even longer, over at least setting up a system that gives hundreds (thousands?) of kids much better options?

You speak as if you just needed one more week of elbow grease to make the local schools perform. You had years. How long for you would have been acceptable to do nothing and create no alternatives to give that "elbow grease" a try?