On the other hand there are single family homes in the Fort Totten, Bladensburg, Woodridge (not Woodbridge) neighborhood in D.C. These are small brick homes on mostly quiet streets, some attached some not. The neighborhoods have few amenities and are on bus lines rather than metro lines. However, the homes go for 200-300K. The schools aren't great but there are charter work-arounds for that or pretty inexpensive private options not too far away (Christian Family Montessori, St. Jerome, etc.).

These neighborhoods are not known and have a sort of run-down, industrial feel, but are the next places to gentrify. They are the Shaw/Petworth of 15 years ago.

We moved into a similar neighborhood 15 years ago and bought our bungalow for $149k. At the time it was a stretch and I worried about finances all the time. Now we can do pretty much what we want to do because our mortgage is so low in comparison to everything else. I think home ownership is what gets you ahead, for the simple reason that mortgages don't go up but salaries and rent do. After 10 years a mortgage seems very low unless you've refinanced over and over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god. People act like dc is some sort of rich people Mecca. It isn't. Go to LA, SF, Manhatten. There housing is incredibly expensive and yes people work at C and B. DC is actually really affordable IMO. You people gripe about how fast paced and expensive it is out here but obviously you haven't been elsewhere.

Data don't support you here, sorry. Assuming you're talking aboutDC and not Olney. And if you ARE talking about Olney whe you asset that "dc isnt expensive," then I'll point out some other places that aren't as expensive: the San Fernando Valley, Richmond ca., a lot of long island, some of Oakland, etc.

Compare apples to apples using Case Shiller. Yes on manhattan, no on "LA", Maybe on SF peninsula

Wrong. I just sold a house in one of these areas- not updated, in a iffy neighborhood, 1000
Sq ft- 600k. This doesn't hold a candle to the dc metro area and I'm not referring to olney. http://m.kiplinger.com/article.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkiplinger.com%2Fslideshow%2Fmost-expensive-cities-to-live-in-the-united-states%2F1.html&type=slideshow

Thx. The home prices listed in the link actually make my point. Manhattan is #1 (but not the other boroughs). SF and the District are about even. LA proper isn't in the top 10 but a few SoCal communities are

Yes, but see if you can find some data on the average sq. footage of homes - I can guarantee that you are getting a much larger place for $729,000 in the district vs. NY or SF or Oakland.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god. People act like dc is some sort of rich people Mecca. It isn't. Go to LA, SF, Manhatten. There housing is incredibly expensive and yes people work at C and B. DC is actually really affordable IMO. You people gripe about how fast paced and expensive it is out here but obviously you haven't been elsewhere.

Data don't support you here, sorry. Assuming you're talking aboutDC and not Olney. And if you ARE talking about Olney whe you asset that "dc isnt expensive," then I'll point out some other places that aren't as expensive: the San Fernando Valley, Richmond ca., a lot of long island, some of Oakland, etc.

Compare apples to apples using Case Shiller. Yes on manhattan, no on "LA", Maybe on SF peninsula

I actually agree with both of you. I think DC is up there on the COL continuum, but SF and the peninsula are definitely more expensive. Average prices for a one-bedroom in SF (and this may not be a nice one in a nice neighborhood...at all) is now $2900/mo. This has also bled over into the more desirable areas of the East Bay. A one-bedroom in the hood in Oakland is $1300-$1500 ($2000-$3000 is nice neighborhoods). LA is definitely more expensive too. Here's the thing: in the bay area and NY, you don't hear people complaining about a 1500sf for a family of four.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family is pretty poor by DCUM standards, we are immigrants, first generation, second generation. My parents still live in a rent controlled old one bedr apartment they rented back in the early 80s in an area of the city that used to be a bit sketchy, but now super expensive and polished. My extended family have various incomes, most of them are low middle class to solid middle class and most have blue collar jobs, service jobs and some have professional jobs, but not high paying by DC standards. They all make ends meet, some live in modest homes outside of beltway, some live in Silver Spring, some in Arlington (there are lots to Arlington beyond the Lyon Village and the likes), or other moderately priced and not too far out places in NOVA. Young kids that have failed to get college diplomas or are not doing well in finding a job live with parents in general and have some jobs to supplement their income. Some get married and move out affording to buy a place on consolidated income, some buy in not the most glamorous parts where yuppies probably would never consider. There are many affordable neighborhoods where you can get a house for 400-500K and even less if you go to PG and not the trendiest parts of DC/NOVA/MD. Just because there are lots of lower income, middle class, blue collar and immigrant families, these areas tend to scare off white yuppies as undesirable, but they are safe, family friendly areas, and schools are not terrible, these places provide good quality of life. Yes, if you are a yuppie with a high expectation to live in an upper middle class suburb or trendy city areas you may think there is no way for anyone to make a living here. You also have to remember, that many people have lived in this area for a long time and they have bought their homes before the prices went through the roof. Some members of my family have been here since the 80s, their homes, no matter how crappy, have appreciated a lot, or they became protected tenants if they used to rent. My cousin, who is in police, bought a nice townhouse for under 300K in 2001, which now would cost about 600K easily, their income is definitely under 100K with both of them working.

Which areas are these?

All of Germantown and some of Gaithersburg, but I personally wouldn't call that "Washington". Still, diverse, pleasant and perfectly safe. Fine MoCo school system.

Probably much of PG county as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family is pretty poor by DCUM standards, we are immigrants, first generation, second generation. My parents still live in a rent controlled old one bedr apartment they rented back in the early 80s in an area of the city that used to be a bit sketchy, but now super expensive and polished. My extended family have various incomes, most of them are low middle class to solid middle class and most have blue collar jobs, service jobs and some have professional jobs, but not high paying by DC standards. They all make ends meet, some live in modest homes outside of beltway, some live in Silver Spring, some in Arlington (there are lots to Arlington beyond the Lyon Village and the likes), or other moderately priced and not too far out places in NOVA. Young kids that have failed to get college diplomas or are not doing well in finding a job live with parents in general and have some jobs to supplement their income. Some get married and move out affording to buy a place on consolidated income, some buy in not the most glamorous parts where yuppies probably would never consider. There are many affordable neighborhoods where you can get a house for 400-500K and even less if you go to PG and not the trendiest parts of DC/NOVA/MD. Just because there are lots of lower income, middle class, blue collar and immigrant families, these areas tend to scare off white yuppies as undesirable, but they are safe, family friendly areas, and schools are not terrible, these places provide good quality of life. Yes, if you are a yuppie with a high expectation to live in an upper middle class suburb or trendy city areas you may think there is no way for anyone to make a living here. You also have to remember, that many people have lived in this area for a long time and they have bought their homes before the prices went through the roof. Some members of my family have been here since the 80s, their homes, no matter how crappy, have appreciated a lot, or they became protected tenants if they used to rent. My cousin, who is in police, bought a nice townhouse for under 300K in 2001, which now would cost about 600K easily, their income is definitely under 100K with both of them working.

Which areas are these?

All of Germantown and some of Gaithersburg, but I personally wouldn't call that "Washington". Still, diverse, pleasant and perfectly safe. Fine MoCo school system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god. People act like dc is some sort of rich people Mecca. It isn't. Go to LA, SF, Manhatten. There housing is incredibly expensive and yes people work at C and B. DC is actually really affordable IMO. You people gripe about how fast paced and expensive it is out here but obviously you haven't been elsewhere.

Data don't support you here, sorry. Assuming you're talking aboutDC and not Olney. And if you ARE talking about Olney whe you asset that "dc isnt expensive," then I'll point out some other places that aren't as expensive: the San Fernando Valley, Richmond ca., a lot of long island, some of Oakland, etc.

Compare apples to apples using Case Shiller. Yes on manhattan, no on "LA", Maybe on SF peninsula

Wrong. I just sold a house in one of these areas- not updated, in a iffy neighborhood, 1000
Sq ft- 600k. This doesn't hold a candle to the dc metro area and I'm not referring to olney. http://m.kiplinger.com/article.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkiplinger.com%2Fslideshow%2Fmost-expensive-cities-to-live-in-the-united-states%2F1.html&type=slideshow

Thx. The home prices listed in the link actually make my point. Manhattan is #1 (but not the other boroughs). SF and the District are about even. LA proper isn't in the top 10 but a few SoCal communities are

Anonymous wrote:If you don't care much about social status, you can live a middle-class lifestyle on a moderate income here -- with some frugality and creativity.

This is how we do it on $70k combined (both self-employed with no employer benefits):

Housing: Hyattsville Historic District (3200 sf Victorian just reassessed at $240k)
Education: St. Jerome Academy ($7200 combined for 3 kids, including need-based financial aid)
Transportation: Two 12+ year old paid-off cars, the second bought used; we both work from home so no commuting costs
Clothing: Thrift stores (what wealthy Washingtonians wore a few times last year and then gave away)
Food: Aldi's and what we grow in our backyard garden
Dining/Entertainment: Gift cards from recipients of some of our volunteer work (which we have time to do since we're not working 70-hour weeks)
Health Insurance: Md. Health Insurance Program (a "Cadillac plan" but subsidized heavily for those of moderate incomes)
Telecommunications: FiOS Internet+Phone $50/month after much haggling; PagePlus Cellular $30/month x 2 (1200 minutes/1200 texts/200mb data)
Retirement: Plan to live with the kids as my parents and their parents did

Obviously Washington is an expensive area to live in. But the flip side is that you can make what would be an average income elsewhere, and here it puts you into the subsidization categories. And if your self-worth is not dependent upon where you live or what toys you have, then you can enjoy a pretty decent quality of life for well under the Washington median -- including living in a large, charming home in a safe, vibrant community and providing your kids with a great education.

I'm the poor person from up top. I like you guys! lol

"Retirement: Plan to live with the kids as my parents and their parents did"

Yikes! Do your kids' spouses have any say in these plans?

If you don't care much about social status, you can live a middle-class lifestyle on a moderate income here -- with some frugality and creativity.

This is how we do it on $70k combined (both self-employed with no employer benefits):

Housing: Hyattsville Historic District (3200 sf Victorian just reassessed at $240k)
Education: St. Jerome Academy ($7200 combined for 3 kids, including need-based financial aid)
Transportation: Two 12+ year old paid-off cars, the second bought used; we both work from home so no commuting costs
Clothing: Thrift stores (what wealthy Washingtonians wore a few times last year and then gave away)
Food: Aldi's and what we grow in our backyard garden
Dining/Entertainment: Gift cards from recipients of some of our volunteer work (which we have time to do since we're not working 70-hour weeks)
Health Insurance: Md. Health Insurance Program (a "Cadillac plan" but subsidized heavily for those of moderate incomes)
Telecommunications: FiOS Internet+Phone $50/month after much haggling; PagePlus Cellular $30/month x 2 (1200 minutes/1200 texts/200mb data)
Retirement: Plan to live with the kids as my parents and their parents did

Obviously Washington is an expensive area to live in. But the flip side is that you can make what would be an average income elsewhere, and here it puts you into the subsidization categories. And if your self-worth is not dependent upon where you live or what toys you have, then you can enjoy a pretty decent quality of life for well under the Washington median -- including living in a large, charming home in a safe, vibrant community and providing your kids with a great education.

Anonymous wrote:My family is pretty poor by DCUM standards, we are immigrants, first generation, second generation. My parents still live in a rent controlled old one bedr apartment they rented back in the early 80s in an area of the city that used to be a bit sketchy, but now super expensive and polished. My extended family have various incomes, most of them are low middle class to solid middle class and most have blue collar jobs, service jobs and some have professional jobs, but not high paying by DC standards. They all make ends meet, some live in modest homes outside of beltway, some live in Silver Spring, some in Arlington (there are lots to Arlington beyond the Lyon Village and the likes), or other moderately priced and not too far out places in NOVA. Young kids that have failed to get college diplomas or are not doing well in finding a job live with parents in general and have some jobs to supplement their income. Some get married and move out affording to buy a place on consolidated income, some buy in not the most glamorous parts where yuppies probably would never consider. There are many affordable neighborhoods where you can get a house for 400-500K and even less if you go to PG and not the trendiest parts of DC/NOVA/MD. Just because there are lots of lower income, middle class, blue collar and immigrant families, these areas tend to scare off white yuppies as undesirable, but they are safe, family friendly areas, and schools are not terrible, these places provide good quality of life. Yes, if you are a yuppie with a high expectation to live in an upper middle class suburb or trendy city areas you may think there is no way for anyone to make a living here. You also have to remember, that many people have lived in this area for a long time and they have bought their homes before the prices went through the roof. Some members of my family have been here since the 80s, their homes, no matter how crappy, have appreciated a lot, or they became protected tenants if they used to rent. My cousin, who is in police, bought a nice townhouse for under 300K in 2001, which now would cost about 600K easily, their income is definitely under 100K with both of them working.

Which areas are these?

Finally, a question where I'm a subject matter expert! (Wait a minute, that's not a good thing)

For the past three years since the baby was born, we've been a one income household. At 41k a year, the take home pay is roughly 1400 every two weeks after taxes and the $220 biweekly insurance deduction.

We live in a 530 sq ft one-bedroom apartment in Ward 3 and pay $1550 a month with utilities included.
No car note
Car insurance=$100
Metro= $120
Student Loans= $400
Internet=$60
Cell Phone Family Plan=$130 (no landline phone)

We don't have a whole lot leftover after groceries, but we get by somehow. I definitely noticed a difference from when we had two incomes. I really notice a difference from when we were +$100k in NC's lovely cost of living. But like they say, that which doesn't kill me better take off running.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh god. People act like dc is some sort of rich people Mecca. It isn't. Go to LA, SF, Manhatten. There housing is incredibly expensive and yes people work at C and B. DC is actually really affordable IMO. You people gripe about how fast paced and expensive it is out here but obviously you haven't been elsewhere.

Data don't support you here, sorry. Assuming you're talking aboutDC and not Olney. And if you ARE talking about Olney whe you asset that "dc isnt expensive," then I'll point out some other places that aren't as expensive: the San Fernando Valley, Richmond ca., a lot of long island, some of Oakland, etc.

Compare apples to apples using Case Shiller. Yes on manhattan, no on "LA", Maybe on SF peninsula

Wrong. I just sold a house in one of these areas- not updated, in a iffy neighborhood, 1000
Sq ft- 600k. This doesn't hold a candle to the dc metro area and I'm not referring to olney. http://m.kiplinger.com/article.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkiplinger.com%2Fslideshow%2Fmost-expensive-cities-to-live-in-the-united-states%2F1.html&type=slideshow

Anonymous wrote:I get you are trying to be understanding but your tone is off putting. Emergency funds, retirement accounts, vacations, college savings, and health insurance are luxuries. Either pick 1 or pick none. Pay your rent or mortgage, utilities, food and that is how you live on 40k. Stop acting so dumb about it.

Yep, this is how we live. We obviously will never own a house here. We live in a one bedroom with a den with two kids in a "transitional neighborhood" and we.. well, we make our priorities. We live in town to avoid commuting costs and the loss of time with our children, so our rent is higher than FAR out burbs but only slightly (about $200/month more). It's cheaper than somewhere like Arlington! We don't have cable or Ipads or go out to fancy dinners or what have you. I have great health insurance through my job (thank God) but we have no savings and take no vacations and only do our employer part of our retirement savings. Occasionally food is on a credit card, but 85% of the time we make our ends meet and are very very happy. We both have jobs that we love and while we make pennies now, we will make a more livable wage in about 5 years and our kids will be out of daycare, so things will get better. People all over start out poor and work their way up, and we're no exception. That said, I will admit that it's hard and sometimes I'm really jealous of my friends who can afford more luxuries.

We don't qualify for any subsidies (no govt aid), for what it's worth. But we ARE on a sliding scale at our childrens' daycare center and save an additional 10% because of sibling, so that's how we afford that.

My family is pretty poor by DCUM standards, we are immigrants, first generation, second generation. My parents still live in a rent controlled old one bedr apartment they rented back in the early 80s in an area of the city that used to be a bit sketchy, but now super expensive and polished. My extended family have various incomes, most of them are low middle class to solid middle class and most have blue collar jobs, service jobs and some have professional jobs, but not high paying by DC standards. They all make ends meet, some live in modest homes outside of beltway, some live in Silver Spring, some in Arlington (there are lots to Arlington beyond the Lyon Village and the likes), or other moderately priced and not too far out places in NOVA. Young kids that have failed to get college diplomas or are not doing well in finding a job live with parents in general and have some jobs to supplement their income. Some get married and move out affording to buy a place on consolidated income, some buy in not the most glamorous parts where yuppies probably would never consider. There are many affordable neighborhoods where you can get a house for 400-500K and even less if you go to PG and not the trendiest parts of DC/NOVA/MD. Just because there are lots of lower income, middle class, blue collar and immigrant families, these areas tend to scare off white yuppies as undesirable, but they are safe, family friendly areas, and schools are not terrible, these places provide good quality of life. Yes, if you are a yuppie with a high expectation to live in an upper middle class suburb or trendy city areas you may think there is no way for anyone to make a living here. You also have to remember, that many people have lived in this area for a long time and they have bought their homes before the prices went through the roof. Some members of my family have been here since the 80s, their homes, no matter how crappy, have appreciated a lot, or they became protected tenants if they used to rent. My cousin, who is in police, bought a nice townhouse for under 300K in 2001, which now would cost about 600K easily, their income is definitely under 100K with both of them working.

Anonymous wrote:Oh god. People act like dc is some sort of rich people Mecca. It isn't. Go to LA, SF, Manhatten. There housing is incredibly expensive and yes people work at C and B. DC is actually really affordable IMO. You people gripe about how fast paced and expensive it is out here but obviously you haven't been elsewhere.

Data don't support you here, sorry. Assuming you're talking aboutDC and not Olney. And if you ARE talking about Olney whe you asset that "dc isnt expensive," then I'll point out some other places that aren't as expensive: the San Fernando Valley, Richmond ca., a lot of long island, some of Oakland, etc.

Compare apples to apples using Case Shiller. Yes on manhattan, no on "LA", Maybe on SF peninsula