Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 21:47     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And route 7 in Falls Church is just as bad during commuting hours.


Not at all.

Vienna is so bad that the town ridiculously imposes restrictions on drivers from making left hand turns during rush hour times on certain streets like Electric Ave. That is drastic.


Please do not comment on something you obviously know nothing about. Yes, there are restrictions on drivers making left hand turns during rush hour on Electric Ave. (and only on Electric Ave.) but that is because the Navy Federal Credit Union is located up the way and the restriction is due to the large number that work there. But even more, that area you are talking about is way off in the back area of Vienna closest to Tysons. It is not even close to the center of town so your comment is not relevant to the discussion. What is "drastic" is when people generalize about things that are not accurate.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 21:38     Subject: Re:Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The challenge in Vienna is that the main commuting artery through the town is also the primary commercial artery, so Maple/123 is very congested. You cannot live in Vienna and not be seriously affected by it the traffic at times, the occasional stroll to Nielsen's, Caffe Amouri and Bazan's notwithstanding.

In McLean, the main commercial area is set off from 123, so Dolley Madison/123 is far less congested. But, because the retail areas near Chain Bridge and Old Dominion are less visible, they get less traffic and depend more on locals for business, and there's not as much to choose from as in Vienna.



I completely agree with this. I was one of the early posters who said they didn't like the congestion down Maple/123. I do envision all of Vienna being one long corridor down 123, and it's not attractive or easy to get around. Yes, I know all about Church Street - I used to take my kids there for the annuals Veterans Day Carnival. It's quite lovely. But if you don't live right there (near Whole Foods), I find the whole strip of stores along 123 and the congestion to be off-putting.

On the other hand, I live in McLean, and our downtown is no Bethesda, either. We also seem to be missing a "heart" of a town. Much of it is still 1950s architecture. There seems to be no planning commission. Any attempts to create a lovely center of town with many restaurants within walking distance never happen - certainly not since the recession started. Our selection of stores, as PP states, is much less than Vienna. Our restaurant selection is almost nil. But I do all of my shopping in McLean because it's close, I can park, run in, get what I need and get out. I avoid Tysons at all costs. I only go down Maple into Vienna if I have to for a doctor's appt because of the congestion (and then stop at Taco Bell since we don't have that in McLean either! yum yum)


McLean is no Bethesda which includes no ridiculous parking restrictions and loud bars/restaurants.

Downtown McLean has had many opportunities to increase commercial density, but the residents just aren't interested in turning downtown McLean into a Vienna or Bethesda.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 21:34     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:And route 7 in Falls Church is just as bad during commuting hours.


Not at all.

Vienna is so bad that the town ridiculously imposes restrictions on drivers from making left hand turns during rush hour times on certain streets like Electric Ave. That is drastic.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 21:01     Subject: Re:Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I live in Vienna but normally shop in Oakton. Never ever go on Maple.


Kind of hard to get from Vienna to Oakton without geting on 123, whether you call it Maple Avenue in Vienna or Chain Bridge Road in Oakton. I honestly don't get people in Vienna congratulating themselves for completely avoiding Maple. For better or worse, it's the main drag.



I live off of Hunter Mill with a Vienna address. rarely go to Maple unless via the bike trail. My problem, instead, is that I commute via the toll road and the tolls keep going up.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 19:29     Subject: Re:Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:

On the other hand, I live in McLean, and our downtown is no Bethesda, either. We also seem to be missing a "heart" of a town. Much of it is still 1950s architecture. There seems to be no planning commission. Any attempts to create a lovely center of town with many restaurants within walking distance never happen - certainly not since the recession started. Our selection of stores, as PP states, is much less than Vienna. Our restaurant selection is almost nil. But I do all of my shopping in McLean because it's close, I can park, run in, get what I need and get out. I avoid Tysons at all costs. I only go down Maple into Vienna if I have to for a doctor's appt because of the congestion (and then stop at Taco Bell since we don't have that in McLean either! yum yum)


If you took all the restaurants in McLean on Chain Bridge, Old Chain Bridge, Beverly, Curran, Elm, and Old Dominion, and put them next to one another on a stretch of strip malls like the stretches on Maple and Church in Vienna, you'd realize that there are quite a few good ones, but I'd still go to Vienna regularly for some of the things that just can't be found in McLean. For example, Balducci's is great, but I still want a local bakery like Cenan's.

But the compensating factor in McLean is the lesser traffic and easier commuting. It's kind of the mirror image of what I like and don't like about Vienna.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 19:16     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:Church street is not the secret to getting around Vienna. Only people that don't live in Vienna think that the heart of Vienna is maple. The secret is knowing which streets to cross at. Avoid Lawyers and Maple, minimize the time on Maple, particularly between Park and East Street, and it is not so bad. Granted, I rarely go to the east side of Vienna.

And my office is in Reston, so I have a short reverse commute.


I can see how people living in many parts of Vienna can minimize their time on or crossing Route 123 to get to Reston. On the other hand, someone living in NW Vienna trying to get to Tysons won't be so lucky.

You keep trying to sell this fiction that actual Vienna residents know all these secret routes to avoid traffic, but lots of people can read maps or use their GPS devices, and the well-settled and accurate consensus is that traffic there is often painful.

If the intersection of Maple and Center is not the heart of Vienna, you had best tell the town to start changing all the local addresses.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 18:46     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
Church street is not the secret to getting around Vienna. Only people that don't live in Vienna think that the heart of Vienna is maple. The secret is knowing which streets to cross at. Avoid Lawyers and Maple, minimize the time on Maple, particularly between Park and East Street, and it is not so bad. Granted, I rarely go to the east side of Vienna.

And my office is in Reston, so I have a short reverse commute.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 18:36     Subject: Re:Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:The challenge in Vienna is that the main commuting artery through the town is also the primary commercial artery, so Maple/123 is very congested. You cannot live in Vienna and not be seriously affected by it the traffic at times, the occasional stroll to Nielsen's, Caffe Amouri and Bazan's notwithstanding.

In McLean, the main commercial area is set off from 123, so Dolley Madison/123 is far less congested. But, because the retail areas near Chain Bridge and Old Dominion are less visible, they get less traffic and depend more on locals for business, and there's not as much to choose from as in Vienna.



I completely agree with this. I was one of the early posters who said they didn't like the congestion down Maple/123. I do envision all of Vienna being one long corridor down 123, and it's not attractive or easy to get around. Yes, I know all about Church Street - I used to take my kids there for the annuals Veterans Day Carnival. It's quite lovely. But if you don't live right there (near Whole Foods), I find the whole strip of stores along 123 and the congestion to be off-putting.

On the other hand, I live in McLean, and our downtown is no Bethesda, either. We also seem to be missing a "heart" of a town. Much of it is still 1950s architecture. There seems to be no planning commission. Any attempts to create a lovely center of town with many restaurants within walking distance never happen - certainly not since the recession started. Our selection of stores, as PP states, is much less than Vienna. Our restaurant selection is almost nil. But I do all of my shopping in McLean because it's close, I can park, run in, get what I need and get out. I avoid Tysons at all costs. I only go down Maple into Vienna if I have to for a doctor's appt because of the congestion (and then stop at Taco Bell since we don't have that in McLean either! yum yum)
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 18:03     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:Think what you want. To the people that live here, we know how to avoid 123.


I lived there long enough to learn all the back routes, but it's a congested area and it's both difficult and senseless to avoid 123 completely if you live in Vienna. Every place has its pros and cons. True, if you live there, you may not commute the length of Maple every day, but the traffic still is a pain. I think the wealth of restaurants and shops compensate for it, but people who refuse to admit that the traffic sucks are in denial.

Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 17:59     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
And route 7 in Falls Church is just as bad during commuting hours.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 17:05     Subject: Re:Mclean vs. Vienna
66 is actually worse than Maple.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 15:37     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
Think what you want. To the people that live here, we know how to avoid 123.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 15:17     Subject: Re:Mclean vs. Vienna
Anonymous wrote:I live in Vienna but normally shop in Oakton. Never ever go on Maple.


Kind of hard to get from Vienna to Oakton without geting on 123, whether you call it Maple Avenue in Vienna or Chain Bridge Road in Oakton. I honestly don't get people in Vienna congratulating themselves for completely avoiding Maple. For better or worse, it's the main drag.

Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 14:39     Subject: Re:Mclean vs. Vienna
I live in Vienna but normally shop in Oakton. Never ever go on Maple.
Anonymous
Post 01/06/2013 12:13     Subject: Mclean vs. Vienna
We lived in Vienna, and Maple Ave was our nemesis. We are now in Falls Church City and much happier.