Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

You know what, you bitches are overly hysterical. I am not saying that the teacher shouldn't bring concerns to the parents' attention, only that they should be very careful how they do it because they are NOT TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY. Your assessment of my "reasoning" is way off base and says more about your lack of reasoning ability than it does about mine.

Now go take your Xanax and STFU.

Wait a minute - who exactly needs a Xanax? Who is cursing and getting hysterical?

Like I said, a touchy subject for some...

Well, when you are dense, putting words in people's mouths, and display a lack of reading comprehension, then I feel the need to express myself a little bit forcefully since apparently you need me to be very blunt so you can understand my meaning. Glad I've cleared up the confusion for you.

I'm definitely confused - why are you getting so worked up about this? Teacher, nurse, OT see something unusual. They see lots of kids and have a good baseline for "normal". Why not get it checked out?

First of all, kids with ASDs have a huge propensity for seizure disorders. I think its 25 to 30%. (Attention, 15:34) before you jump down my throat, I know OP didn't mention an ASD, but she did mention SN and if she is a teacher of kids with SN she has surely had this issue flagged for her.. Many of us do have children with ASDs, so thats the reason we are more attuned to it and our kids' teachers may be more attuned to it. I have two sibs with ASDs and they both have seizure disorders. I know others. Thats why so many of us are familiar with it, because this is the SN section, not because of an "east coast thing."

Second, the OP was going to talk to the nurse, so this wasn't about a teacher taking it into her own hands.

I don't know what politics have to do with it. I'm as left wing as they come and I'm absolutely certain that if the nurse at my DC's school suspected an absence seizure, I would want her to tell me. Nothing nanny state about it. It is incomprehensible to me why everyone is so OFFENDED by someone with medical training point out a possible issue.

So lets lay out why early intervention for absence seizures is critical. First of all, they absolutely can be a sign of a tumor. I am the PP whose friend's child was saved because the school nurse had the conversation that seems to offend so many of you.

Second, absence seizures can develop into grand mal seizures if untreated. This is what happened to my brother. Grand mal seizures can cause serious damage to the heart. I know a family that had a child with an ASD who died during a seizure.

And i think if parents aren't told the reason why they should have it checked out, they may not. Not everyone knows what an absence seizure is or that it would be what the nurse was concerned about.

Some of you have accused me of being hysterical and bringing on some kind of nanny state affliction. What I don't understand is how the downside of having the nurse flag it (as in "we are seeing something that could be an absence seizure, we don't know, please check it out") outweighs the risk of not being explicit about the concern with the parent. What is the downside? Annoyance? Your feelings might be hurt? You feel intimidated by the school or it makes you anxious to have the nurse say such a thing? you resent it? The child may turn out not to have anything at all (I say "yay" to that -- a happy ending.) Do any of those things come close to outweighing the risk to health and even life thats at stake here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

You know what, you bitches are overly hysterical. I am not saying that the teacher shouldn't bring concerns to the parents' attention, only that they should be very careful how they do it because they are NOT TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY. Your assessment of my "reasoning" is way off base and says more about your lack of reasoning ability than it does about mine.

Now go take your Xanax and STFU.

Wait a minute - who exactly needs a Xanax? Who is cursing and getting hysterical?

Like I said, a touchy subject for some...

Well, when you are dense, putting words in people's mouths, and display a lack of reading comprehension, then I feel the need to express myself a little bit forcefully since apparently you need me to be very blunt so you can understand my meaning. Glad I've cleared up the confusion for you.

The best answer I have seen so far is to videotape the child. Nothing beats that.

Send the videotape home with the child and suggest a doctor's visit to check it out.

Where is the OP, I wonder?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was born with a birth defect that in some cases can lead to seizures so I had an EEG and CAT (pre MRIs) when I was a child to get it checked out even though I had never had a seizure. EEG and CAT were normal and I have never had a seizure and I'm in my mid40ties. I'm glad it was checked out when it was.

If the teacher suspects there may be a problem, I think she is obligated to mention it to the parents. I am glad my child's teacher told me about my son's issues in preK. If it wasn't for her, he would not have been evaluated, got a diagnosis and an IEP and be the happy child at school that he is now.

Way to miss the point.

Was answering OP's question. Skipped whatever you are talking about.

Anonymous wrote:I was born with a birth defect that in some cases can lead to seizures so I had an EEG and CAT (pre MRIs) when I was a child to get it checked out even though I had never had a seizure. EEG and CAT were normal and I have never had a seizure and I'm in my mid40ties. I'm glad it was checked out when it was.

If the teacher suspects there may be a problem, I think she is obligated to mention it to the parents. I am glad my child's teacher told me about my son's issues in preK. If it wasn't for her, he would not have been evaluated, got a diagnosis and an IEP and be the happy child at school that he is now.

Way to miss the point.

I was born with a birth defect that in some cases can lead to seizures so I had an EEG and CAT (pre MRIs) when I was a child to get it checked out even though I had never had a seizure. EEG and CAT were normal and I have never had a seizure and I'm in my mid40ties. I'm glad it was checked out when it was.

If the teacher suspects there may be a problem, I think she is obligated to mention it to the parents. I am glad my child's teacher told me about my son's issues in preK. If it wasn't for her, he would not have been evaluated, got a diagnosis and an IEP and be the happy child at school that he is now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

You know what, you bitches are overly hysterical. I am not saying that the teacher shouldn't bring concerns to the parents' attention, only that they should be very careful how they do it because they are NOT TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY. Your assessment of my "reasoning" is way off base and says more about your lack of reasoning ability than it does about mine.

Now go take your Xanax and STFU.

Wait a minute - who exactly needs a Xanax? Who is cursing and getting hysterical?

Like I said, a touchy subject for some...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't like the teacher/nurse are providing a real diagnosis. They are just providing their observations for parents. Hopefully parents will follow up on those instead of getting into a huff about "crossing the line."

"Absence seizures" is not an observation. It's a diagnosis. Observation would be that the child is blanking out.

A nurse who says "I am concerned that your child is having absence seizures, you should bring her to a doctor," is not providing a diagnosis. What do you want her to say "take your child to a doctor, I can't tell you why." Seriously? or "your child is blanking out." Do you think most parents would even understand what the concern is? I am familiar with that because I have family members with epilepsy but i would bet that if you said to most parents "I am concerned because your child is blanking out" that they would have no idea what you were talking about. Even with my knowledge I would be wondering if they meant ADHD or something else. And you know what I or any other parents would then say, including you? "What do you mean blanking out? Why do you want me to take her to the doctor?"

Seriously, you are being completely ridiculous. I am glad to know that responsible school nurses would never follow this advice.

I want that nurse to say "Here's what I have observed" and then DESCRIBE THE BEHAVIOR.

Yes, thank you. I'm a hardcore liberal but I don't want a school nannying me to the point of REQUIRING doctor's visits for anything that isn't contagious. I am the parent, and I'll decide thank you very much.

Anonymous wrote:It seems that people who are promoting a much more serious, intrusive, hard line approach are extrapolating backward from their own experience of diagnosis of epilepsy or serious neurological troubles.

I think we need to remember that all that is on the table so far is a teacher who has observed some sort of behavior. We don't even have a description of that behavior. Simply a notation that the teacher has seen a youtube video that makes her feel it could be absence seizures.

I don't want a school nurse or teacher suggesting diagnoses. Pointing out problems, absolutely, and encouraging a visit to the doctor, you bet. But suggesting diagnoses is dangerous and over the line. A kid that loses focus in class could be malnourished, could be exhausted, could have a metabolic disorder, could have a dozen different things.

Agreed. Enough with the hyperventilating hysterics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

Exactly! As soon as we knew something *could* be wrong (as parents) we just wanted to figure it out one way or another. I can't imagine not wanting to know if your child had an issue.

Again, did I ever say I didn't want to know? No. Only that having teachers attempt to diagnose causes anxiety. We would have discussed with our pediatrician anyway (which we did right away) but it would have been less fraught with angst, especially since the school was getting hysterical about this and pushing ever more terms and services and specialists on us without a shred of medical evidence that any of it was needed (it wasn't). I thought this was a support board? You all sound awfully judgmental and sanctimonious for a support board.

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with the majority of responses to this post. I say it's better to be safe than sorry. I would absolutely want my teacher to bring this to my attention!!!!! Obviously, you are not in the position to diagnose a child, and I don't think that is your aim. But, clearly this is a SN child so absence seizures can be an important consideration. I would approach it with a statement of observation ("I've seen Timmy staring a lot in my class"), followed by a request for the parent's own observations ("Have you also seen this at home?"), followed by a non-alarmist, but impactful statement about the relevance of absence seizures in children with SNs ("I'm not a neurologist and I'm not in the position to diagnose, but I work with SNs kids and I have learned that subclinical seizures are common in kids with autism/SNs and they can have significant negative impact on these children, for example speech disorders. i don't want to alarm you unnecessarily, but I thought you should be aware of what I have observed in case you wish to discuss it with your child's doctor. I would be happy to document these observations so that you can share them with your child's doctor"). FWIW, my child was Dx with autism and was non-verbal. A teacher brought his staring spells to my attn and we conducted a 24 hr eeg. I was shocked to learn that he was having these mild seizures and now that he is on anti-seizure meds my child is talking.

Where do you find evidence for this assumption? Nowhere does the teacher mention that, only that the student is poor. She posted here thinking this would be the best place to get advice and clearly she was wrong. You all sound like a bunch of drug pushers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

You know what, you bitches are overly hysterical. I am not saying that the teacher shouldn't bring concerns to the parents' attention, only that they should be very careful how they do it because they are NOT TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY. Your assessment of my "reasoning" is way off base and says more about your lack of reasoning ability than it does about mine.

Now go take your Xanax and STFU.

Agreed. And the mammogram analogy ["we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing cancer"] is telling in and of itself. "We" don't publish mammogram guidelines. The AMA does.

Anonymous wrote:<<I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused. >>

We had the same thing happen to us, right down the the same players -- the principal, the OT, the OT pusying MRI, the doctor refusing. I thought we were the only ones!

We ultimately, years later, wound up having an MRI bc the troubling behaviour persisted. MRI and overnight EEG were normal

God, how many of us are on here? Is this a DC or East Coast thing? I'm from the Midwest and this has never happened to any of my friends there. It seems par for the course here - especially if you have a boy. Just one more reason I plan on moving.

Anonymous wrote:My don's preschool 3 teacher thought he had absence seizures. She described what she saw and suggested we talk to our doctor. Later she followed up a few times, which got annoying because there was nothing neurological going on with my son. Like the PP's OT, the preschool teacher didn't believe it.

Not that it maters, but the issue for my son was that when he got too overloaded with stimuli, he shut down and became unresponsive. Eventually he learned to manage the amount of stimulation in his life and he stopped shutting down.

This.