Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 14:20     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
*lawsuits
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 14:20     Subject: Re:If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is one of the reasons we've never joined a church. It is too expensive. We give to the charities we pick and we give in the amounts we can afford. I do not think it makes you a better Christian to give 10% of your income to a church.


I agree that it doesn't make you a "better Christian" to give - but for those people who come to churches and take part in the activities, enjoy the community, etc., there is a cost to keeping the lights on. Our church is small and very upfront about the expenses, all are laid out in an open annual report. Our priest makes less than I do (and I work part-time). Space, resources, utilities, all add up and believe me, as someone who has intimate knowledge of this, those dropping $40 at Christmas and Easter are not doing their share.


Then the church can find other ways of making money AND (in the case of the Catholic Church, of which I'm a member and comfortable with that, as previously stated) they can ensure their hard-won money doesn't go toward law suits to protect child pervs.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 14:15     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:If you only go during xmas and easter, then paying $40 just to sit in the chair is a lot


That is an incredibly selfish way to look at it. If you want the church to be there when you need it at x-mas and easter, then you need to provide year-round support. Otherwise, go to a pop-up service in a community center. Just because your needs are fleeting doesnt mean that a facility does not have year-round expenses.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 14:09     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
If you only go during xmas and easter, then paying $40 just to sit in the chair is a lot
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 12:44     Subject: Re:If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:This is one of the reasons we've never joined a church. It is too expensive. We give to the charities we pick and we give in the amounts we can afford. I do not think it makes you a better Christian to give 10% of your income to a church.


I agree that it doesn't make you a "better Christian" to give - but for those people who come to churches and take part in the activities, enjoy the community, etc., there is a cost to keeping the lights on. Our church is small and very upfront about the expenses, all are laid out in an open annual report. Our priest makes less than I do (and I work part-time). Space, resources, utilities, all add up and believe me, as someone who has intimate knowledge of this, those dropping $40 at Christmas and Easter are not doing their share.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 12:36     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:Tithing is not a doctrine. As a doctrine it is new. Never part of any church doctrine, until the late 18th century.

Op, join the lutheran church where you are asked to give 1%. Or a church where the priests do not marry, like the catholics

Or do what I do, tithe once you have salary as big as that of the priest. By definition charity should go to someone who has less than you, not more


My Lutheran congregation asks us to tithe.

I turn a deaf ear. Not Biblical, not necessary, and besides, I give to charities in addition to what I give at church.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 12:25     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Mormon and feel tremendous pressure to "give" 10%. It is tracked and every member called in for a tithing settlement each December to make sure we're in good standing.

If you do not pay tithing, you can't enter the temple. Huge reprucussions if you need to attend a family member's temple wedding. I almost did not get to attend my sisters wedding one year until I could come up with another $3,000 to reach the status of full-tithe payer. I could've lied and still gotten in, but that is not who I am.


I find this to be so unbelievably awful.


It angers me - my parents tithe to the church despite not being able to pay their living expenses.

That would piss me off so much, especially if they expected help from others to pay for living expenses.


So far that hasn't happend, but I can see the future... I'm not doing it unless they give me power of attorney over their finances. Any money from me does come with strings attached. They consistently make HORRIBLE financial decisions, but so far, can swing it all on their own. So, as long as I'm not funding it, I figure I don't have a right to push them too hard on change. I've suggested modifications before, but they do what they want anyways. Which if they are self-sufficient is ok.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 12:18     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Mormon and feel tremendous pressure to "give" 10%. It is tracked and every member called in for a tithing settlement each December to make sure we're in good standing.

If you do not pay tithing, you can't enter the temple. Huge reprucussions if you need to attend a family member's temple wedding. I almost did not get to attend my sisters wedding one year until I could come up with another $3,000 to reach the status of full-tithe payer. I could've lied and still gotten in, but that is not who I am.


I find this to be so unbelievably awful.


It angers me - my parents tithe to the church despite not being able to pay their living expenses.

That would piss me off so much, especially if they expected help from others to pay for living expenses.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 12:10     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am Mormon and feel tremendous pressure to "give" 10%. It is tracked and every member called in for a tithing settlement each December to make sure we're in good standing.

If you do not pay tithing, you can't enter the temple. Huge reprucussions if you need to attend a family member's temple wedding. I almost did not get to attend my sisters wedding one year until I could come up with another $3,000 to reach the status of full-tithe payer. I could've lied and still gotten in, but that is not who I am.


I find this to be so unbelievably awful.


It angers me - my parents tithe to the church despite not being able to pay their living expenses.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 11:48     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Tithing is not a doctrine. As a doctrine it is new. Never part of any church doctrine, until the late 18th century.

Op, join the lutheran church where you are asked to give 1%. Or a church where the priests do not marry, like the catholics

Or do what I do, tithe once you have salary as big as that of the priest. By definition charity should go to someone who has less than you, not more
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 11:36     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:I am a non-denominational Christian. My Pastor frequently goes by this Scripture:

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 2 Cor 9:7.

If you give and it is not without any misgivings, stress, etc, that is not okay. God does not want your offering to him to come with a heavy heart. Give what you can give comfortably and do so cheerfully.

It really saddens me how the various denominations have different doctrines. Aren't we all, when it comes down to it, Christians?


That's the nice thing about the Bible - for every passage that says one thing, you can find another that says the opposite.

Kinda like Mitt Romney, when you think about it.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 11:19     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:I am Mormon and feel tremendous pressure to "give" 10%. It is tracked and every member called in for a tithing settlement each December to make sure we're in good standing.

If you do not pay tithing, you can't enter the temple. Huge reprucussions if you need to attend a family member's temple wedding. I almost did not get to attend my sisters wedding one year until I could come up with another $3,000 to reach the status of full-tithe payer. I could've lied and still gotten in, but that is not who I am.


That alone would be enough to make me leave the Mormon church.

Does the committee reviewing your tithing practices have information about your annual income?
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 11:17     Subject: If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Do you live in DC 15:11? I am also amazed at the amount of money we earn and burn through, but it is what it is. We can "survive" on $8100, but can't get ahead. A very rough budget for us:

$3200 - house/utilities/life insurance
$2000 - childcare
$1800 - student loans, credit card debt, car payment/insurance/gas/parking (minimum payments on all)
$800 - food/household goods like TP, paper towel, laundry detergent, etc
$900 - tithe

That leaves a grand total of $300 for all extras - clothing, diapers, toiletries, haircuts, etc. Survivable? Sure. Manageable? Yes. But very difficult to save extra. The first three big ticket items are fixed costs - we cannot reduce them by cutting corners, etc.

We are obviously house-poor. I know that is the problem, but moving is not an option right now.

Anyway - not the point of my post, but just wanted to show that it's possible for $9,000 (or $8,100) to not stretch all that far.

Thanks to everyone for your input and feedback - we'll be examining our budget again this week.


Are you not saving for retirement right off the top, pre-tax?

If that is the case, you should start doing so immediately.
Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 11:09     Subject: Re:If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For the people who don't give money, giving your time to a church is a wonderful way to make a contribution and get to know people in the congregation, but it doesn't help pay the mortgage, utility bills, and other bills that the church has to pay monthly. Many churches were hit hard by the economic crisis and have been struggling to make ends meet. Even if you only give $5 a week, it can help.



It can help with their wasteful electric usage and unnecessary upgrades? No thanks. Before he was pope, John Paul II used to say Mass for his faithful in the woods in Poland (because practicing Catholicism was forbidden at the time due to the Soviet takeover). God does not need a fancy building.


PP here -- who mentioned a fancy building? Many of us attend services in buildings that are anything but grand. At the church I attend, the lights are turned off when no one is there (except for the necessary security lights outside). Any upgrades or changes to the church are discussed in meetings with the congregation. But just like a home, there are bills that have to be paid every month even if no upgrades are being done. I don't know how other faiths handle things, but Protestants have to pay the minister, secretary, youth minister, etc. -- if no one gives, who pays for all those things? I don't think tithing is necessary, but there is an amount of money required to keep the church functioning!

Anonymous
Post 10/23/2012 09:12     Subject: Re:If you tithe - do you tithe while paying off debt?
Anonymous wrote:For the people who don't give money, giving your time to a church is a wonderful way to make a contribution and get to know people in the congregation, but it doesn't help pay the mortgage, utility bills, and other bills that the church has to pay monthly. Many churches were hit hard by the economic crisis and have been struggling to make ends meet. Even if you only give $5 a week, it can help.



It can help with their wasteful electric usage and unnecessary upgrades? No thanks. Before he was pope, John Paul II used to say Mass for his faithful in the woods in Poland (because practicing Catholicism was forbidden at the time due to the Soviet takeover). God does not need a fancy building.