Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I

As a side-note, on balance i probably come down a little bit more on the free-range side of things, but am I the only parent that is really irritated by the "movement" surrounding same? I'd LOVE to see a successful movement that brings back neighborhoods, kids at home (nannies, moms / dads with flex hours, etc) or at least in play based daycare instead of in school fulltime at three, more recess, and more of the "olden days" feel that made it safe for us to walk home from school at 7, that made it so that we could go out in the street and play hockey. But look, I live in a different time now. If I let MY kids go out, they're the only kids out there. The other kids are scheduled up during the few hours they aren't in school. Homework intrudes on evenings and weekends are filled with organization, from everything from parents feeling they MUST fill every moment, to going out to dinner all the time (I admit we're guilty of that) or to soccer, baseball, etc, or even just ultra-organized birthday parties. We can lament the lack of freedom, but it's super silly, to me, to suggest that parents who are "afraid" to let their kids do what we did as children are the problem. The problem is huge and pervasive and it's really not just a matter of me thinking my 9 year old is not ready to ride metro by herself, I think.

Actually, the sentiment you express is expresed pretty clearly by Lenore (I may have her name wrong - the original woman in the free range movement.) That she can let her kid go out and play, but who is he going to play with? So the reason she calls it a movement, is that the problem is so pervasive, that it needs movement to fix. But I agree that some of the followers on her website are more of the type that think anyone whose kids aren't outdoors, creating laynards out of grassblades is a overprotective helicopter parent. What bothers me by the movement is it seems to be they type of things where people take sides. You are free range or you aren't. The orginal book was great - in that it encouraged small changes, and acknowledged that it was hard to make those changes when you live in a society where all the other kids are over scheduled.

Thanks for your thoughtful response! I have to admit to knowing most of what I know about the movement from the parents who practice it, so to speak. You've made me interested in reading the book.

Monkey bars are great for swinging, I just don't think that the kids should be allowed to climb them and sit on top of them, or hang upside down anymore.

I think one of the ER docs mentioned seeing more monkey bar injuries than swing injuries- I worked at a preschool were the swings were considered the most dangerous in licensing standards and were basically all removed from our playgrounds. Hands getting pinched and kids getting hit and falling were the majority of the injuries. Our monkey bars were always heavily supervised so there was never a major injury while I was there. I was pre-school teacher so as kids get older I am sure it is different!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My four siblings and I survived childhood without ever having broken an arm or leg and we did some crazy (unsupervised) things. I remember sitting on top of the monkey bars and hanging upside down and the hard smack that accompanied the impact when we fell onto the baked Texas ground below.

Penny drops and all....us too! My brother and his friends used too build some crazy-ass ramps that they launched bikes and skateboards over...littler ones following on big wheels

I was SHOCKED to find out recently that a group of teenage competitive gymnasts did not know what penny drops were. I'm sure kids have always broken their arms on monkey bars, but I wonder if it's more common now that playtime is so sanitized that kids don't get any practice doing "dangerous" things and learning how to fall properly.

Ok....have to ask...what are 'penny drops'...never heard of it/them before.

You hang upside down by your knees on a bar. Let go of the bar with your hands and swing back and forth until you have a little momentum, then you release the bar from your knees and land on your feet on the ground. This isn't usually a monkey bar activity, it's much better done on a single bar where you don't have to worry about your feet accidentally hitting another bar and stopping your rotation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My four siblings and I survived childhood without ever having broken an arm or leg and we did some crazy (unsupervised) things. I remember sitting on top of the monkey bars and hanging upside down and the hard smack that accompanied the impact when we fell onto the baked Texas ground below.

Penny drops and all....us too! My brother and his friends used too build some crazy-ass ramps that they launched bikes and skateboards over...littler ones following on big wheels

I was SHOCKED to find out recently that a group of teenage competitive gymnasts did not know what penny drops were. I'm sure kids have always broken their arms on monkey bars, but I wonder if it's more common now that playtime is so sanitized that kids don't get any practice doing "dangerous" things and learning how to fall properly.

Ok....have to ask...what are 'penny drops'...never heard of it/them before.

Anonymous wrote:I

As a side-note, on balance i probably come down a little bit more on the free-range side of things, but am I the only parent that is really irritated by the "movement" surrounding same? I'd LOVE to see a successful movement that brings back neighborhoods, kids at home (nannies, moms / dads with flex hours, etc) or at least in play based daycare instead of in school fulltime at three, more recess, and more of the "olden days" feel that made it safe for us to walk home from school at 7, that made it so that we could go out in the street and play hockey. But look, I live in a different time now. If I let MY kids go out, they're the only kids out there. The other kids are scheduled up during the few hours they aren't in school. Homework intrudes on evenings and weekends are filled with organization, from everything from parents feeling they MUST fill every moment, to going out to dinner all the time (I admit we're guilty of that) or to soccer, baseball, etc, or even just ultra-organized birthday parties. We can lament the lack of freedom, but it's super silly, to me, to suggest that parents who are "afraid" to let their kids do what we did as children are the problem. The problem is huge and pervasive and it's really not just a matter of me thinking my 9 year old is not ready to ride metro by herself, I think.

Actually, the sentiment you express is expresed pretty clearly by Lenore (I may have her name wrong - the original woman in the free range movement.) That she can let her kid go out and play, but who is he going to play with? So the reason she calls it a movement, is that the problem is so pervasive, that it needs movement to fix. But I agree that some of the followers on her website are more of the type that think anyone whose kids aren't outdoors, creating laynards out of grassblades is a overprotective helicopter parent. What bothers me by the movement is it seems to be they type of things where people take sides. You are free range or you aren't. The orginal book was great - in that it encouraged small changes, and acknowledged that it was hard to make those changes when you live in a society where all the other kids are over scheduled.

DS and a new kid (started today) were showing off for a girl on the playground today. The new kid did a spinning jump and broke his ankle in the process. Maybe we should separate girls and boys during recess and see how many of these accidents can be prevented.

My kids play soccer. Someone gets hurt at every game. But we still keep playing.

Re crowding, having 12 classes on one playground at once, like at the school down the street from me, is not just "part of life.". Plus, since the kids only have 20 min. to play (really less when taking into account the time spent in the hallways getting to outside) there is a lot of needless pushing and arguing to fit in turns on the popular monkey bars.

And, as mentioned, in order to try to fit the needs of kids k-5, the monkey bars are usually way too high for the younger kids. In a dream world, where budgets weren't an issue, each school would have two playgrounds, one for the older grades and one for the younger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is an Orthopaedic surgeon and says that all the time.

Well, sure. The orthopedic surgeon sees the kids who break bones. He don't see the vast majority of kids who play on trampolines and monkey bars who don't break bones. Observer bias. I'll admit that kids who sit quietly under the tree smelling flowers are not seen by the surgeon, either.

F you. He sees kids that break all kinds of bones from all kinds of injuries. A large portion of these injuries are from monkey bars...more so than any other playground equipment. But way to be an ass.

Do you allow your children to ride bikes or skate. What activities are your child allowed to participate. You know you can break your arm falling out of a bunk bed. My friend's two-half year old sprained a wrist falling off the hotel bed.

I actually never said they should be outlawed, or that I don't ket my kids use them. Just agreeing that they are in fact a big cause of injuries. Keep at em kids, it's good for my children's college accounts.

Anonymous wrote:"they have outlawed tag"

????hunh

how do you outlaw tag and for what insane reason would someone dream of doing so?

+1

My child has learned from this:
1) Some rules are stupid.
2) Some adults are crazy.
3) We have to follow idiotic, stupid f*cking rules, but we can work to try to change them.
4) Even if we work to change them--meetings, starting petitions, etc., we still may not get the result we want.

Welcome to life. I am truly sorry you are a boy in this molly-coddled, sissbag period of time in the US where they want to take away every type of play that boys have doing for centuries.

My DD fractured her wrist falling off the monkey bars when she was in kindergarten. AS soon as the cast came off, she was back on them. let kids be kids!

I think monkey bars are more dangerous because of the way they're built, not just that they are high, or involve climbing. When we were kids we had the parallel bars and we had some monkey bars, like two or three bars to swing around on. I did all manner of tricks and it was fun and fine. However, now you have these big orb looking things and I think, in an attempt to prevent kids from doing penny drops or swinging around on it, etc, they put the bars close together and in a strange pattern, so if you fall, you have a pretty good chance of smacking face or shoulder or wrist (etc) first into another metal bar. Metal bars give less than the grass (even if it's hot and dry) below it. In any event, I DO think the modern monkey bars have been weirdly sanitized in a way that makes them LESS safe in the long run. My little dude is only 3 and is very uncoordinated so I let him climb as much as he wants (with me spotting, I guess that makes me helicopter-y to some folks but oh well) in hopes he'll learn to be more sure-footed. However, he's not a risk-taker or climber so far.

As a side-note, on balance i probably come down a little bit more on the free-range side of things, but am I the only parent that is really irritated by the "movement" surrounding same? I'd LOVE to see a successful movement that brings back neighborhoods, kids at home (nannies, moms / dads with flex hours, etc) or at least in play based daycare instead of in school fulltime at three, more recess, and more of the "olden days" feel that made it safe for us to walk home from school at 7, that made it so that we could go out in the street and play hockey. But look, I live in a different time now. If I let MY kids go out, they're the only kids out there. The other kids are scheduled up during the few hours they aren't in school. Homework intrudes on evenings and weekends are filled with organization, from everything from parents feeling they MUST fill every moment, to going out to dinner all the time (I admit we're guilty of that) or to soccer, baseball, etc, or even just ultra-organized birthday parties. We can lament the lack of freedom, but it's super silly, to me, to suggest that parents who are "afraid" to let their kids do what we did as children are the problem. The problem is huge and pervasive and it's really not just a matter of me thinking my 9 year old is not ready to ride metro by herself, I think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is an Orthopaedic surgeon and says that all the time.

Well, sure. The orthopedic surgeon sees the kids who break bones. He don't see the vast majority of kids who play on trampolines and monkey bars who don't break bones. Observer bias. I'll admit that kids who sit quietly under the tree smelling flowers are not seen by the surgeon, either.

F you. He sees kids that break all kinds of bones from all kinds of injuries. A large portion of these injuries are from monkey bars...more so than any other playground equipment. But way to be an ass.

Do you allow your children to ride bikes or skate. What activities are your child allowed to participate. You know you can break your arm falling out of a bunk bed. My friend's two-half year old sprained a wrist falling off the hotel bed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is an Orthopaedic surgeon and says that all the time.

Well, sure. The orthopedic surgeon sees the kids who break bones. He don't see the vast majority of kids who play on trampolines and monkey bars who don't break bones. Observer bias. I'll admit that kids who sit quietly under the tree smelling flowers are not seen by the surgeon, either.

+!

I loved the monkey bars as a kid in the late 60's, early 70's. And, I broke my arm playing football years later. Kids will be kids. Jeeze, according to parents today, we are babying our children. They can't play tag and dodge ball at schools any longer. Let the kids be kids.