Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually am thrilled that one can "bash" Catholics out loud. I agree with pp that if we were talking the same way about, say Jews or Muslims(yikes) or Chinese or Indian or whatever other such group, one would be out of line and likely bounced from the DCUM world by Jeff. But Catholics are now so mainstream, it's almost okay to bash them. Sort of like bashing a white male. No one is really offended. No one really cares. Wasn't that why when my grandfather was growing up, where Catholics were quite literally getting bashed. But Catholics are now mainstream, and such little "bashing" is either amusing, or doesn't really hurt.

This is just wrong. It is not ok to bash anyone, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, mainstream, fringe, or otherwise. It is, in fact, offensive, hurtful, and definitely not amusing.

Agreed. I've run into Catholic bashing in DC and elsewhere. Not always amusing. Here's a good rule of thumb: civilized people don't bash people.

Anonymous wrote:I also find it irritating--but Catholicism is a choice you make. Your race/ethnicity isn't.

Are you saying Judaism is a race/ethnicity?

Being Jewish is a choice. My friend converted from Judaism to Catholicism, for example. One of my Muslim colleagues turned her back on Islam b/c she had been beaten by her "high profile" husband. It's a choice.

It's not a race; it's a religion. I can be a French Jew, an Israeli Jew, an Egyptian Jew, you name it. So if I'm Ashkenazi, I'm European. If I'm Sephardic, I'm Middle Eastern.

Yes, it's "cultural" to some degree but so is being Catholic Italian, as they're interwoven - or Irish Catholic.

Religions are man-made. There's the choice. But I can't change my olive complexion or my brown eyes.

I am Catholic and have from time to time been accused of "Catholic Bashing", even though I think I am making reasonable criticisms of the Church. Then when I say I am Catholic, I get the standard replies that I am not really Catholic. I interpret the reaction as defensiveness, and I think the Catholics on the board would get much more respect if they showed an appropriate level of concern for Church problems.

The other problem is that posters often enough respond with Church doctrine on certain matters of morality. To us, who are used to the language and have been reading this stuff our whole lives, it sounds reassuring and convincing. To outsiders with no background it sounds condescending and unconvincing. Take for example Women and the Priesthood. A typical response will be to repeat the standard doctrine about the "special" role women hold within the Church, and how "truly" beautiful it is when we realize the "fullness of God's plan". But when you take the documents apart with a critical eye, sometimes you realize that the source of the doctrine isn't biblical or philosophical. Ultimately it relies on the belief that the hierarchy is God's official representative on earth, designated by Jesus himself. And all of the poetry unravels for a person who does not share that single belief.

Jesus showed a healthy skepticism of the religious hierarchy when he was on earth. I suggest that we Catholics would do better for our church and earn the respect of outsiders if we do the same. Of course there are those who will always hate Catholicism, but those occasional bigots should not be the excuse for us to ignore real problems in front of our eyes.

Anonymous wrote:
Even so, people who are against saying god in the pledge of allegiance are weird/anti-american.

WTF? Dissent is American. Separation of church and state is even more so. Are you just being a gross troll?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. I have never met a Catholic I didn't like. 8) There are TONS of problems with the church, doctrine, and leadership, but the Catholics I've met are very down-to-earth. Well, except for one family that seemed almost fundamentalist-conservative, wearing Amish-like clothing. Still, they were nice.

That's been my experience as well. I come from an Irish-Italian-New England-Catholic family and they are fun-loving, good-hearted, party people. They are the exact opposite of what I see described which seems to be the "Southern' version/opinion of Catholics. The Jesuit branch is scholarly and intellectual..and much more liberal. We had no problems getting married in a DC Catholic church with a spouse that hadn't been baptized anything. There is a lot of stress of acceptance, helping the poor/disadvantaged and community. Just about all of the Catholic women I know use BC...that's my circle, btw.

+1. I have experienced same thing. My Catholic friends are some of the most progressive and liberal...most are also Irish.

OP NP here. ITA. If it was any other group, all hell would break loose. It has become fashionable to attack Catholics. I'm not saying they are perfect, but nor is any other group. Must people be so closed minded?! It doesn't have to be your religion, but that doesn't make it right.

This double standard has been around forever. I'll never forget a Jewish law school friend basically mocking me for coming from a large Catholic family. I had to point out that if I had said anything about her Jewish upbringing I'd be considered anti-Semite. To her credit, she agreed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use and am not offended by the term "Catholic Mafia." I'm a member! 3rd generation Irish-Catholic. Blessed Sacrament. Visi. Gonzaga. Catholic U/Notre Dame. Columbia CC. Club Blue Lax. Big freakin SUV. The whole nine yards. Yes, much stereotyping goes on here. But many of us are walking stereotypes.

This is so true. I think we need to distinguish between the religion and the subculture in chevy chase and MOCO, which is more of a social identity than a religion.

Agree. In one of Anne Lamott's books, she writes about some Jewish friends and she describes them (I'm paraphrasing) as "bagelly Jews, not Moses Jews." I think there is a similar Catholic split. There are ok-with-birth-controlly Catholics, and then there is the Vatican.

Anonymous wrote:Totally.

Catholics are entitled to their values, e.g., no divorce, no abortion, no homosexuality, etc. It's their values, their lives. Why can't we leave it at that.

On the flip-side, I totally agree that conservative christian religious values shouldn't be imposed on others. We should all be free to decide our own values/religion.

Even so, people who are against saying god in the pledge of allegiance are weird/anti-american.

I was going to say the same. There are skinny blonde moms driving big ass black SUVs in every wealthy suburb in America. It just so happens that in the greater Bethesda area a lot of them are Catholic and tend to belong to the same clubs and go to the same schools. The discussion really had nothing to do with religion.

Personally, I feel justified in criticizing the church very harshly because I was born and raised catholic, went to catholic school k thru senior year in high school. The hypocrisy and misogyny are nauseating. Just (barely) more subtle than other much maligned religions I e Islam.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. I have never met a Catholic I didn't like. 8) There are TONS of problems with the church, doctrine, and leadership, but the Catholics I've met are very down-to-earth. Well, except for one family that seemed almost fundamentalist-conservative, wearing Amish-like clothing. Still, they were nice.

Same for Mormons. I honestly think they are bat shit crazy for their beliefs, don't understand how in the hell they can believe this crap, and therefore question their intelligence. But I have never, ever met one that I didn't like. As a stereotype, they are incredibly nice people. Except for Mitt Romney. He's an evil dude.

Please explain how Mormons are any more bat-shit crazy than any other Christian sect.

I understand your point, and I agree with you for the most part. However, Mormon beliefs are a bit crazier than most religions. It was founded by Joseph Smith, a well-known con-man in upstate NY who claimed an angel gave him gold plates in 1820, they "baptize" dead people retroactively. Oh, I almost forgot: Glenn Beck is a converted Mormon. He is bat-shit crazy, so if Mormonism attracted him, it most be the nuttiest religion out there.

I wonder what additional information we would have on Jesus if he was around 200 years ago instead of 2000. Maybe we just have better records of all the kooky stuff Joseph Smith was involved in? And as far as "nutty": water to wine, virgin birth, rising from the dead? Being neither Mormon or Christian, they both sound equally nutty to me.

Glenn Beck. Case closed.

Totally.

Catholics are entitled to their values, e.g., no divorce, no abortion, no homosexuality, etc. It's their values, their lives. Why can't we leave it at that.

On the flip-side, I totally agree that conservative christian religious values shouldn't be imposed on others. We should all be free to decide our own values/religion.

Even so, people who are against saying god in the pledge of allegiance are weird/anti-american.

Anonymous wrote:I use and am not offended by the term "Catholic Mafia." I'm a member! 3rd generation Irish-Catholic. Blessed Sacrament. Visi. Gonzaga. Catholic U/Notre Dame. Columbia CC. Club Blue Lax. Big freakin SUV. The whole nine yards. Yes, much stereotyping goes on here. But many of us are walking stereotypes.

This is so true. I think we need to distinguish between the religion and the subculture in chevy chase and MOCO, which is more of a social identity than a religion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. I have never met a Catholic I didn't like. 8) There are TONS of problems with the church, doctrine, and leadership, but the Catholics I've met are very down-to-earth. Well, except for one family that seemed almost fundamentalist-conservative, wearing Amish-like clothing. Still, they were nice.

Same for Mormons. I honestly think they are bat shit crazy for their beliefs, don't understand how in the hell they can believe this crap, and therefore question their intelligence. But I have never, ever met one that I didn't like. As a stereotype, they are incredibly nice people. Except for Mitt Romney. He's an evil dude.

Please explain how Mormons are any more bat-shit crazy than any other Christian sect.

I understand your point, and I agree with you for the most part. However, Mormon beliefs are a bit crazier than most religions. It was founded by Joseph Smith, a well-known con-man in upstate NY who claimed an angel gave him gold plates in 1820, they "baptize" dead people retroactively. Oh, I almost forgot: Glenn Beck is a converted Mormon. He is bat-shit crazy, so if Mormonism attracted him, it most be the nuttiest religion out there.

I wonder what additional information we would have on Jesus if he was around 200 years ago instead of 2000. Maybe we just have better records of all the kooky stuff Joseph Smith was involved in? And as far as "nutty": water to wine, virgin birth, rising from the dead? Being neither Mormon or Christian, they both sound equally nutty to me.

Anonymous wrote:I actually am thrilled that one can "bash" Catholics out loud. I agree with pp that if we were talking the same way about, say Jews or Muslims(yikes) or Chinese or Indian or whatever other such group, one would be out of line and likely bounced from the DCUM world by Jeff. But Catholics are now so mainstream, it's almost okay to bash them. Sort of like bashing a white male. No one is really offended. No one really cares. Wasn't that why when my grandfather was growing up, where Catholics were quite literally getting bashed. But Catholics are now mainstream, and such little "bashing" is either amusing, or doesn't really hurt.

This is just wrong. It is not ok to bash anyone, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, mainstream, fringe, or otherwise. It is, in fact, offensive, hurtful, and definitely not amusing.