Anonymous
09/21/2012 14:25
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Np here. when reading the post the flag that came to me was grandma. She sounds pretty dramatic to me. And being that she is your mom, OP, I am sure she has a huge influence on your perspective too. Have you asked DH about the feeding situation from his perspective? Seems like we only heard it from your mom.
Your mom needs to mind her own unless she sees some real abuse here.
This is your marriage, not your moms. I think you are looking at things pretty realistically. I don't think you are in denial. I think some of these posters live in la la land and are in denial that life is not all roses. Your DH does not sound like an abuser to me. He sounds like an overwhelmed human being who needs to sit back and take some deep breathes.
Your mom needs to mind her own unless she sees some real abuse here.
This is your marriage, not your moms. I think you are looking at things pretty realistically. I don't think you are in denial. I think some of these posters live in la la land and are in denial that life is not all roses. Your DH does not sound like an abuser to me. He sounds like an overwhelmed human being who needs to sit back and take some deep breathes.
Anonymous
09/21/2012 14:14
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
I was you OP and I'm in the process of divorce now. One thing that really opened my eyes was a book called "Fatal Flaws". It has a quiz and some of the questions might resonate with you:
1) Do I trust this person?
2) Do I feel better about myself as a consequence of this relationship?
3) Does this person consider my needs equally to his?
4) Is this person sensitive to and supportive of me?
5) Will this person communicate with me honestly on significant issues affecting our relationship?
6) Is this person honest with other people and trustworthy in his other relationships?
7) Do I and my children always feel physically safe with this person?
8) Do other people who I love and trust the most believe this person is good for me? Good for my children?
9) Does this person deny that he has a problem?
10) Does this person refuse professional help for his problem?
11) Does the problem remain unchanged despite professional help?
12) Is there a good chance that in the future this person will physically injure me or my child?
The "quiz" helped cut through my excuses and denial.
Where is your dad on all this? What is your relationship with him like? Was he authoritarian?
1) Do I trust this person?
2) Do I feel better about myself as a consequence of this relationship?
3) Does this person consider my needs equally to his?
4) Is this person sensitive to and supportive of me?
5) Will this person communicate with me honestly on significant issues affecting our relationship?
6) Is this person honest with other people and trustworthy in his other relationships?
7) Do I and my children always feel physically safe with this person?
8) Do other people who I love and trust the most believe this person is good for me? Good for my children?
9) Does this person deny that he has a problem?
10) Does this person refuse professional help for his problem?
11) Does the problem remain unchanged despite professional help?
12) Is there a good chance that in the future this person will physically injure me or my child?
The "quiz" helped cut through my excuses and denial.
Where is your dad on all this? What is your relationship with him like? Was he authoritarian?
Anonymous
09/21/2012 13:27
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
OP, was the counseling to address his anger issues before or after the kids arrived?
I'm wondering if it was before and you feel like you need to defend him now to defend the choice you made to have kids with him? If I had concerns about DH and an adult I trusted said that his parenting made them sick to witness I'd be exploring my legal options.
I'm wondering if it was before and you feel like you need to defend him now to defend the choice you made to have kids with him? If I had concerns about DH and an adult I trusted said that his parenting made them sick to witness I'd be exploring my legal options.
Anonymous
09/21/2012 11:48
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Anonymous wrote:Op here. Wish. I really mid-spoke when I said force-feeding; I did not mean that he put food in her mouth (nor did my mother mean that). She meants that her forced her to finish her 4 nuggets before getting up from the table even though she said she was full. Right before I left, I saw him holding a ketchup-dipped nugget in front of her while he was seated right beside her (so couldnt see her face) and say "take a bite now."
I was in a bad mood and snarled (in front of my mother) "her mouth is full, in case you didn't notice"
He does have anger issues. We completed a year of couples therapy some time back. He doesn't wish to continue.
Thank you very much the posters who empathized and were honest. To read dcum, I would think I was the only mother who ever lost her cool, so it's nice to read that there are other human parents out there and that they are working on their issues.
To whit, I have tried beginning a discussion on discipline and parenting.
Not respecting her self reporting of hunger and forcing her to eat regardless is disrespectful and may in fact set her up for an eating disorder.
You qualify pointing out that her mouth was full (a safety issue and again an issue of respecting her self reported hunger cues) by saying that you were "in a bad mood and snarled (in front of my mother)..."
That isn't really addressing the situation OP. You could have said calmly, she said that she is not hungry. Or "why don't you go work since my folks are here" or "telling her to 'take a bite now'" when her mouth is full is a choking hazzard. I'd love to have heard the intonation on the word "now". Your behavior is that of a disempowered snarky teen appealing to mom to intervene. You and your husband have a really messed up power dynamic and it's playing out at the expense of the kids. The lack of mutual respect probably stems from his own childhood. People I've known like him were never treated with respect so they don't give it to others. They also have a LOT of grief work to do, either after leaving their family of origen or when they become parents. Controlling the kids is a place to put the feelings that come up when he sees you and your parents giving love, fun, empathy, stuff he didn't get.
You know that there are problems in your marriage which is why you did a year of therapy. That he won't continue may mean that the feelings from his childhood that are coming up are too painful to deal with. Your kids will hate your for not protecting them OP.
If I were you I'd set up a nanny cam or two, esp near the table. If he is doing stuff like that in front of people the stuff you aren't aware of is way worse. Document it and you will get sole custody. If he is willing, he needs to see someone who specializes in adults who were abused as children. He has a lot of anxiety that is coming out as control. This is fundamentally changing who the kids were meant to be. Your mom it trying to awaken your protective instincts OP. I'd document and talk to a lawyer.
Anonymous
09/21/2012 11:06
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
OP, do you think that your kids will have happy memories of their childhood?
Do they adore and feel supported by their dad or do they fear him?
How do you think they will feel about your failure to protect them? Do they get to feel safe and free and that limits are respectful and loving?
I had very controlling parents, it has nothing to do with parenting, but is all about their issues that they are addressing by controlling others. There is some good reading here.
http://www.controllingparents.com/webmd_chat.htm
Do they adore and feel supported by their dad or do they fear him?
How do you think they will feel about your failure to protect them? Do they get to feel safe and free and that limits are respectful and loving?
I had very controlling parents, it has nothing to do with parenting, but is all about their issues that they are addressing by controlling others. There is some good reading here.
http://www.controllingparents.com/webmd_chat.htm
Anonymous
09/21/2012 11:01
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Anonymous wrote:
So, here is my current problem: my parents, who live pretty nearby, have visited us the past 3 weekends in a row and they called me last night to say that they are unvomfortable with his parenting style - my mother said it makes her sick to her stomach b/c he is too harsh and too quick to smack/ time-out. My mom is a VERY free-range grandparent/parent. I feel somewhat accused by her distress: as if I am letting my DH abuse the kids.
Incident she described: I was going to a funeral; DH had to work and kids needed to get fed while GP were here. I got McDonalds, kids started eating, then GP arrived and DD wanted to get up and hang out with them. DH got really angry; told her she could not get up til she finished and put each subsequent bite in DD's mouth, even while her mouth was full. My mother responded a little hysterically "she's gpoing to become bulemic if you keep foere-feeding her. I do beleiev the forec-gfeeding wass wrong, but i think he got over-whlemed with having to care for both while i suddenly disappeared when he needed to work at home and the in-laws showing up, He does NOT handle acute stress well.
So, what would you do?
Your problem isn't just the feeding, it isn't just the smacking, it's the harshness and need to control little people as a way of managing DH's feelings. See, if it was me and I needed to work, I'd happily pass the kids off to gparents and go do it. Instead he staged a scene of dominance that you made a comment about but that neither you, gma or gpa stopped. DD could have choked. The risk is more that she have unhealthy relationships with people than that she be bulimic.
I'm curious as to why none of you said to DH, you seem like you could use a break, I'll take over with DD? What would he have done?
Rather than focusing on DH, I think you need to find a therapist and talk about power and control in your marriage. I think that your DH is abusive and even your parents are cowed by him. Get some more insight, otherwise you are taking on responsibility for trying to manage DH. Not your job and not something a control freak is likely to welcome. If I were you I'd go back to the counselor you saw for his anger issues and talk to him/her about where to go from here.
He is abusing your kids. This kind of unhealthy control is not going to end well. He cares more about control than their well being or your relationship. He does not respect them, you or your parents.
Glad you work and have local support.
Anonymous
09/20/2012 17:44
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
It is about control and power. Again, read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship", it was really eye opening for me. It lays out how must of us operate in a world of mutuality but others operate in a world of "power over".
No one in your family gets any power except DH. Your kids and you are not respected as separate people, you are dominated by DH. He does it in public, in private, whether there are people around (although bet he wouldn't force feed your DD in front of his boss) and when you are alone. He has no respect for your parents either subjecting them to that scene. Most libaries carry the book.
No one in your family gets any power except DH. Your kids and you are not respected as separate people, you are dominated by DH. He does it in public, in private, whether there are people around (although bet he wouldn't force feed your DD in front of his boss) and when you are alone. He has no respect for your parents either subjecting them to that scene. Most libaries carry the book.
Anonymous
09/20/2012 05:23
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Anonymous wrote:OP again: conservative is not a euphamism for "punative."
specific example: if i think the high slide is ok and he thinks its dangerous, he should be allowed to forbid child from going on high slide b/c the more cautious approach wins.
i truly haven;t found a good argument around this,
thank you to those who see red flags. i don't want to be so used to a situation that i can;t see it anymore. will hit the books and see if he can take a parenting class with me.
Essentially, what he is saying is that the playground becomes a proving ground for which parent is dominant. Since he is always going to be more "conservative," he will always win, no? If you have disagreements about safety on the playground, discuss the playground at home and establish some reasonable ground rules based on a happy medium. Don't make the playground a crucible for who gets their way. I don't think this is about safety. It's about who is in control.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 22:54
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
OP- I feel for you. I think you may have reached out for help, but are now getting more than you bargained for. Personally, I think you maybe wrote in frustration and things sounded worse than they are, and possibly some are over-reacting. On the other hand, it does sound like you and your DH need to come to some middle ground for the sake of your kids.
I think if you raise the issues with DH you should ask to talk about how "we" parent. And focus on how/when to discuss/disagree. Also, define some baseline expectations. If sitting at the table through the meal is really important to DH, you can live with that, but maybe agree that as long as they stay seated throughout the meal, they don't have to finish what's on their plate. Or, if finishing the dinner is what is important to DH, see if he can live with no other food after the meal until the next scheduled meal/snack if the minimum is not eaten.
Yes, your examples show maybe DH has some trouble with anger, but I agree that we all do things we aren't proud of from time to time when parenting. It is a 24/7 commitment w/o and dress rehearsals.
As for your parent's comments, you may want to talk with them more specifically and ask if there are other incidences that have them concerned. Think about them as a whole, without making excuses. If you are uncomfortable, seek help, even if just for yourself. If on balance most are differences of opinion, thank your parents for their input and move on. If you and DH come to terms on a few givens, share them with your parents. "DH and I have decided it is important to us that the children learn to sit through dinner. Please help us reinforce this by... "
Good luck
I think if you raise the issues with DH you should ask to talk about how "we" parent. And focus on how/when to discuss/disagree. Also, define some baseline expectations. If sitting at the table through the meal is really important to DH, you can live with that, but maybe agree that as long as they stay seated throughout the meal, they don't have to finish what's on their plate. Or, if finishing the dinner is what is important to DH, see if he can live with no other food after the meal until the next scheduled meal/snack if the minimum is not eaten.
Yes, your examples show maybe DH has some trouble with anger, but I agree that we all do things we aren't proud of from time to time when parenting. It is a 24/7 commitment w/o and dress rehearsals.
As for your parent's comments, you may want to talk with them more specifically and ask if there are other incidences that have them concerned. Think about them as a whole, without making excuses. If you are uncomfortable, seek help, even if just for yourself. If on balance most are differences of opinion, thank your parents for their input and move on. If you and DH come to terms on a few givens, share them with your parents. "DH and I have decided it is important to us that the children learn to sit through dinner. Please help us reinforce this by... "
Good luck
Anonymous
09/19/2012 22:29
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
He is abusive to the child, and you are empowering him. Just step back and read what you have written. You need to support your child. He needs counseling, ASAP.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 22:17
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op here. Wish. I really mid-spoke when I said force-feeding; I did not mean that he put food in her mouth (nor did my mother mean that). She meants that her forced her to finish her 4 nuggets before getting up from the table even though she said she was full. Right before I left, I saw him holding a ketchup-dipped nugget in front of her while he was seated right beside her (so couldnt see her face) and say "take a bite now."
I was in a bad mood and snarled (in front of my mother) "her mouth is full, in case you didn't notice"
I think I have portrayed things as worse than they actually are. Also, this is all quite acute. A family friend's child was injured badly recently at their home and my DH blames the parent who was present, who has a similar style of parenting to me. I think he is reactIng to that. He is not usually like this.
He does have anger issues. We completed a year of couples therapy some time back. He doesn't wish to continue.
Thank you very much the posters who empathized and were honest. To read dcum, I would think I was the only mother who ever lost her cool, so it's nice to read that there are other human parents out there and that they are working on their issues.
To whit, I have tried beginning a discussion on discipline and parenting.[/quote
Op, we obviously do not know exactly what your situation looks like, we only know what you tell us. I am going off just what you say and forming an opinion based on what I know from past experiences and such. So with that, it honestly seems like you are back tracking, defending your husband, and rationalizing the situation.
In your original post you said "and put each subsequent bite in DD's mouth, even while her mouth was full." I read this as your daughter's mouth was full but your husband continued putting the food into her mouth. I don't see how it could be understood any other way?
I am one of the pps that didn't just say "get out of there" because I've been in abusive relationships before and I know it's not as easy as "ok, I'm leaving". I actually believe in rehabilitation. But abuse, anger issues, etc don't just stop randomly. They need to be addressed and taken care of.
OP again: i do see i wrote that. i exagerrated. it was that he held bites in front of her mnouth, i didn't realize ethat people would take force feeding to bmean that he shoved food in her mouth, that is a gross mischaracterization.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 22:15
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Anonymous wrote:Poster who suggested he did not truly force feed. See I was right. However, who makes a child finish JUNK FOOD?? Also, if my son is full, he is full, I always have whole grain snacks with me so its ok if he gets hungry when we are out and about. But that's a different issue - I think this whole value of three square meals and finishing them is way, way overestimated...
as I just said above, "and put each subsequent bite in DD's mouth, even while her mouth was full." how is this not forcing the child to eat?
Anonymous
09/19/2012 22:14
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
OP again: conservative is not a euphamism for "punative."
specific example: if i think the high slide is ok and he thinks its dangerous, he should be allowed to forbid child from going on high slide b/c the more cautious approach wins.
i truly haven;t found a good argument around this,
thank you to those who see red flags. i don't want to be so used to a situation that i can;t see it anymore. will hit the books and see if he can take a parenting class with me.
specific example: if i think the high slide is ok and he thinks its dangerous, he should be allowed to forbid child from going on high slide b/c the more cautious approach wins.
i truly haven;t found a good argument around this,
thank you to those who see red flags. i don't want to be so used to a situation that i can;t see it anymore. will hit the books and see if he can take a parenting class with me.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 22:13
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Anonymous wrote:Op here. Wish. I really mid-spoke when I said force-feeding; I did not mean that he put food in her mouth (nor did my mother mean that). She meants that her forced her to finish her 4 nuggets before getting up from the table even though she said she was full. Right before I left, I saw him holding a ketchup-dipped nugget in front of her while he was seated right beside her (so couldnt see her face) and say "take a bite now."
I was in a bad mood and snarled (in front of my mother) "her mouth is full, in case you didn't notice"
I think I have portrayed things as worse than they actually are. Also, this is all quite acute. A family friend's child was injured badly recently at their home and my DH blames the parent who was present, who has a similar style of parenting to me. I think he is reactIng to that. He is not usually like this.
He does have anger issues. We completed a year of couples therapy some time back. He doesn't wish to continue.
Thank you very much the posters who empathized and were honest. To read dcum, I would think I was the only mother who ever lost her cool, so it's nice to read that there are other human parents out there and that they are working on their issues.
To whit, I have tried beginning a discussion on discipline and parenting.
Op, we obviously do not know exactly what your situation looks like, we only know what you tell us. I am going off just what you say and forming an opinion based on what I know from past experiences and such. So with that, it honestly seems like you are back tracking, defending your husband, and rationalizing the situation.
In your original post you said "and put each subsequent bite in DD's mouth, even while her mouth was full." I read this as your daughter's mouth was full but your husband continued putting the food into her mouth. I don't see how it could be understood any other way?
I am one of the pps that didn't just say "get out of there" because I've been in abusive relationships before and I know it's not as easy as "ok, I'm leaving". I actually believe in rehabilitation. But abuse, anger issues, etc don't just stop randomly. They need to be addressed and taken care of.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 21:54
Subject: Discipline and your spouse - if one person is much more strict...
Poster who suggested he did not truly force feed. See I was right. However, who makes a child finish JUNK FOOD?? Also, if my son is full, he is full, I always have whole grain snacks with me so its ok if he gets hungry when we are out and about. But that's a different issue - I think this whole value of three square meals and finishing them is way, way overestimated...