Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore those noisy DCUMers who want to re-live their middle school days by bullying others online (since they can't get away with it in person). I think you're right that the principal was out of line, and that a good teacher should be able to manage a single sit-in by a kindergartner without resorting to high drama. Really. Move your child to a better place and don't look back; be glad you have the choice.

Anonymous wrote:I hesitate to say what school I am referring to here, because this school is practically revered in MC.

My DD is almost six. She is smart, creative, with a sophisticated sense of humor. After initial excitement about school, running there the entire way on the first day, she has met great disappointment and heartache. I am trying to pull back here and take a long term view, but the signs are a bit iffy at this point

To her credit the teacher with whom I have been communicating is catching on that she is not aware that DD is being teased, and that is being in turn punished for standing up for herself as opposed to "being a tattletale". She is also thinking carefully about regrouping kids as needed to make class flow and allow everyone to have the best possible experience.

What she didnt know is that DD came from a preschool that had centers from which you could freely choose on any given day. There were three to four teachers in the class for a similar class size as hers (18). It was not entirely loose, with lots of routines, but the centers and engagement activities were free choice.

Well, not so here, and understandably DD doesnt understand. And when she didnt want to go to one center wanting instead to go to another, she felt taunted by the other kids (she is very sensitive, so no doubt the whole class didnt taunt her, but all it would really take is one). So she sat down and refused to move.

The teacher said she initially gave her a moment of time to do this, but then did the countdown and took her to the Principals office. There, according to my daughter, who is very aware of the difference between talking and yelling, said she was yelled at by the Principal. I asked DD if she was crying and she said yes. She was then made to eat lunch by herself in the hallway. All this because she sat down and refused to participate.

So I communicated with her teacher and wanted to know how I could find out more about this conversation the principal had with my daughter. I also talked on the phone with the teacher and let her know some of what she was missing. She said she was glad I told her, etc. She said that when DD sat down she was impeding the learning time of the other students, "because they are all looking at her" and had to be removed. I gotta tell ya, I dont quite see that as true at all. So it appears being sent to the Principals office is now the standard time out room. The yelling part I address today in a meeting with the principal, who called me on the way home from her cell phone while driving to address the question I had posed to the teacher. However, I told her a meeting would be a better choice. No doubt this is what she was hoping to avoid. I'll let her do all the talking and see what can be deduced from what she says.

My main thought is this: in a normal system of consequences, those consequences are understood and explained. In this case, administering this severe of a punishment comes as a surprise to ME. And to DD as well who had no idea this was going to take place. Also, while I get that the teacher cant spend a lot of time on each student, I am failing to understand the complete lack of strategy as to what to do with a kid who doesn't just do what they are told the first time. I was told she needs to be told "repeatedly" to do things like stand in line, etc, and that her refusal to participate was "ratcheting it up". But kids don't do things they are told for a whole host of reasons and treating non participation as exactly the same as disobedience misses the bigger picture needed to actually solve the problem.

This is a teacher with 15 years experience at this school, probably more elsewhere. The Principal is also experienced.

Thoughts on any of this?

I should mention that a friend of mine who is a veteran teacher of the DCPS in some of the worst schools said this sounded "a little hard", especially given the school we are talking about.

Thanks.
-T

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering whether there aren't just one or two parents (probably MCPS employees) responding back to the OP. There is no excuse for a principal, teacher, or staff member to yell at a Kindergarten or 1st grade child. Its questionable whether sending a young child to the principal's office the first month is even appropriate. If it is done as punishment, i.e. the principal's office is set up as a punitive negative place to go then this is very wrong. I also think its cruel to make a young child eat her lunch in the hallway alone.

If any of this happened to your child, I'm sure you would be furious. I would be furious, escalating a formal complaint through the school board, and considering other options if our ES handled things this way.

OP _ I would suggest that you clearly document what the principal told you and file a formal complaint concerning the yelling and being forced to eat in the hall alone. I would also include very specific points of how the teacher and principal is not only being dismissive of your child being bullied and excluded by other kids.

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering whether there aren't just one or two parents (probably MCPS employees) responding back to the OP. There is no excuse for a principal, teacher, or staff member to yell at a Kindergarten or 1st grade child. Its questionable whether sending a young child to the principal's office the first month is even appropriate. If it is done as punishment, i.e. the principal's office is set up as a punitive negative place to go then this is very wrong. I also think its cruel to make a young child eat her lunch in the hallway alone.

If any of this happened to your child, I'm sure you would be furious. I would be furious, escalating a formal complaint through the school board, and considering other options if our ES handled things this way.

OP _ I would suggest that you clearly document what the principal told you and file a formal complaint concerning the yelling and being forced to eat in the hall alone. I would also include very specific points of how the teacher and principal is not only being dismissive of your child being bullied and excluded by other kids.

Anonymous wrote:I agree 8:17. I'm thinking this child has a pretty good model for defiance in the face of not having things go her way. OP received very reasonable (especially by the standards of DCUM) responses, but it wasn't the echo chamber she was expecting/hoping for so she went from 0 to super defensive in the space of a couple of comments. This thread turned into OP digging her heels in, sticking her fingers in her ears and yelling la la la about opinions she asked for. Gotta say, I'm not surprised that her child is having a hard time being redirected at school.

And OP is apparently taking the advice offered by a couple of posters on here and going to Montessori now, but she continues to post about how misguided and unhelpful everyone is after she threatened many many posts ago to take her ball and go home.

Anonymous wrote:Wow, alot has happened since I last posted. I figured some of you might need some resolution since you all seemed so stressed.I have in fact never been stressed this entire time. I was just asking a question.

But to summarize, Yes, principal confirmed she yelled at my daughter. And slammed her table. She did so, she said, because when the teacher arrived with her, holding her by the hand, my daughter 'was looking around acting like she wasnt bothered by being brought to me".

She confirmed that she said to my daughter that she had heard she did not want to participate in a reading segment, and the principal said that by the end of her telling her that "she wouldnt have that" my daughter was crying. She further went on to state that after my daughter "realized this was the big time" (as indicated by her crying) and was made to sit and eat her lunch alone in the hallway that "she was in a better place".

My daughter was in fact teased socially about a boy who decided randomly to display affection for her at lunch, which she was embarassed by, and the other kids teased her about as confirmed by her teacher. What teacher didnt know is that one of those students in class has been (because of that incident) muttering under her breath at her that she is embarassing and refusing to sit next to her at reading time.

This is what led to my daughter not wanting to participate in the instance that was then dealt with as it was dealt with.

Not that most of you appear to care about facts or details, but that is where all the important issues reside in life in general. The full details, not just parts.

Thank goodness for me and my daughter, I am a parent who holds her accountable for her actions and also considers the greater context of the situation, This is what adults must do in adult life. Simply judging off the bat without gathering facts is risky business.

Again, all I wanted to know is why a timeout is not standard use instead of principals office for a disruption of this kind (sitting it out) as opposed to yelling or that kind of thing which would of course be impossible to deal with any other way but removal. My daughter would never get away with disruption of any kind under my watch and she knows it. Why? Because I have a real clear system of consequences that is consistent. So, does it make sense a good kid goes bad for no reason

Not having a consistent set of consequences for a kid who fails to participate, which, by the principals admission is commonplace, is problematic. Also, failing to take the few minutes required to actually ask a kid why they dont want to participate is failing to gain information that could be useful in determining an appropriate course of action.

But again, Im talking to the wrong crowd. The montessori director I met with today didnt have any problem understanding what was happening, and thought the response by the principal and teacher was inappropriate, as did my educator friends. So, to each his own I suppose. I take more the middle ground which is: my daughter should not disrupt, but one has to note why she is disrupting and how. That is every parents responsibility. But first they have to be told its happening.

Have a nice day. And calm the heck down everyone! Drink a glass of wine and stop judging and assuming everyone else shares your stress. I feel great now that I know the parameters I am dealing with. Your judgements honestly dont affect the bottom line at all, but I do appreciate you sharing them with me, really, I have learned a lot.

OK who will have the last word here- its your competition!