Anonymous
09/18/2012 09:00
Subject: Re:The Kennedys are a class act.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Your Klass is showing.
Let's see. You have:
* Told a Special Needs mom she needs counseling
* Stated that special needs kids should get lobotomies
* Argued in favor of lobotomies as the "absolute standard of care"
And this poster lacks class?
Telepathy fail. I'm not that PP and I haven't posted anything about SN kids or lobotomies. Having no experience with either, I don't feel qualified to comment - in complete contrast with you with your rants based on something you read in an unauthorized biography, which the PP you're confusing me with pointed out.
You've just given me reason to repeat: you lack class.
Anonymous
09/18/2012 08:57
Subject: Re:The Kennedys are a class act.
Anonymous wrote:
Your Klass is showing.
Let's see. You have:
* Told a Special Needs mom she needs counseling
* Stated that special needs kids should get lobotomies
* Argued in favor of lobotomies as the "absolute standard of care"
And this poster lacks class?
Anonymous
09/18/2012 08:51
Subject: Re:The Kennedys are a class act.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
It was also done because they feared she would become pregnant out of wedlock as she was sexually active. Screwing around is a pastime reserved only for the boys in the Kennedy family.
Lobotomized as a young woman
"But as she got older, her father worried that his daughter’s mild condition would lead her into situations that could damage the family’s reputation."
“Rosemary was a woman, and there was a dread fear of pregnancy, disease and disgrace,” author Laurence Leamer wrote in an unauthorized Kennedy biography called “The Kennedy Women: The Saga of an American Family.” He wrote that Rosemary had taken to sneaking out of the convent where she was staying at the time.
Doctors told Joseph Kennedy that a lobotomy, a medical procedure in which the frontal lobes of a patient’s brain are scraped away, would help his daughter and calm her mood swings that the family found difficult to handle at home.
Psychosurgery was in its infancy at the time, and only a few hundred lobotomies had been performed. The procedure was believed to be a way to relieve serious mental disorders. Leamer wrote that Rosemary was “probably the first person with mental retardation in America to receive a prefrontal lobotomy.”
You know what is really sad? A person like you who is quoting an unauthorized biography (which basically has NO standard of truth whatsoever) to support your expertise on the field of psychiatric surgery (which is what it is called, not "psychosurgery"). Going around judging a painful chapter in a family's life with 50/50 hindsight is usually the activity of people who are compensating for their OWN guilt. Work out what your issues are with your SN child with a therapist, PP. But if blaming Joe Kennedy for it makes you feel better go for it. I also have a special needs kids. It has made me more sensitive to human frailty--clearly not the case for you. But carry on with your quotes from 'unauthorized celebrity biographers'.
I don't have a SN child. Apparently you do, so if you think lobotomizing SN kids is fine... so be it. I'm not judging you. However, you may want to ask University of Phoenix for a refund on that psychology degree.
Really? You actually lifted that bit about the Psychology from Phoenix degree from the DCUM Mean People thread? It wasn't funny there and it looks even lamer regurgitated here. And the swipe about screwing around wasn't actually funny, just kinda lame.
Your Klass is showing.
Anonymous
09/18/2012 08:45
Subject: The Kennedys are a class act.
Anonymous wrote:So this thread is about bashing a bunch of dead people? Now that's classy!
Signed, not a huge Kennedy fan, but WTF?
Worth repeating
Anonymous
09/18/2012 08:29
Subject: Re:The Kennedys are a class act.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or my personal favorite, having one of their kids lobotomized. For having a lower-than-average IQ. And sneaking out of the convent they sent her to.
Real class act, those Kennedys.
There are many legitimate reasons to criticize the Kennedys. Lobotomization and institutionalization of developmentally challenged children was the absolute standard of care at the time when Rose Kennedy did it. You should familiarize yourself with the RFKs' family foundation "Best Buddies" to really appreciate what an ignorant swipe you are taking at them on that issue. You are clueless.
I'm not, actually.
She was developmentally able enough to keep a diary in which she detailed going to parties, picking out dresses, having teas and meeting President Roosevelt. She was institutionalized and lobotomized for displeasing her parents by escaping the convent they sent her to. At the time it was done to her, it was considered a new procedure. It was NOT the standard of care. Her classy father never visited her again after he had her lobotomized.
The foundation was formed years later, perhaps due to familial guilt? Klassy.
It was also done because they feared she would become pregnant out of wedlock as she was sexually active. Screwing around is a pastime reserved only for the boys in the Kennedy family.
Lobotomized as a young woman
"But as she got older, her father worried that his daughter’s mild condition would lead her into situations that could damage the family’s reputation."
“Rosemary was a woman, and there was a dread fear of pregnancy, disease and disgrace,” author Laurence Leamer wrote in an unauthorized Kennedy biography called “The Kennedy Women: The Saga of an American Family.” He wrote that Rosemary had taken to sneaking out of the convent where she was staying at the time.
Doctors told Joseph Kennedy that a lobotomy, a medical procedure in which the frontal lobes of a patient’s brain are scraped away, would help his daughter and calm her mood swings that the family found difficult to handle at home.
Psychosurgery was in its infancy at the time, and only a few hundred lobotomies had been performed. The procedure was believed to be a way to relieve serious mental disorders. Leamer wrote that Rosemary was “probably the first person with mental retardation in America to receive a prefrontal lobotomy.”
You know what is really sad? A person like you who is quoting an unauthorized biography (which basically has NO standard of truth whatsoever) to support your expertise on the field of psychiatric surgery (which is what it is called, not "psychosurgery"). Going around judging a painful chapter in a family's life with 50/50 hindsight is usually the activity of people who are compensating for their OWN guilt. Work out what your issues are with your SN child with a therapist, PP. But if blaming Joe Kennedy for it makes you feel better go for it. I also have a special needs kids. It has made me more sensitive to human frailty--clearly not the case for you. But carry on with your quotes from 'unauthorized celebrity biographers'.
I don't have a SN child. Apparently you do, so if you think lobotomizing SN kids is fine... so be it. I'm not judging you. However, you may want to ask University of Phoenix for a refund on that psychology degree.
Anonymous
09/18/2012 08:15
Subject: The Kennedys are a class act.
Anonymous wrote: Given that none of them really have to work (or at least can expect not to have to work when their shares of the inheritance become available), there are the expected number of complete trainwrecks, and an unexpectedly high number of them in public service. Some of the public servants are also the trainwrecks.
AT any rate, Joe Kennedy Sr. had 9 kids, and about 30 grandkids. His great-grandkids are now entering politics. We are probably getting to the point where it is difficult to generalize about them
True, not all are trainwrecks and some quite admirable in their commitment to public service. That said, there's at least a whiff of entitlement even among the most admirable Kennedy grandchildren -- sort of like a spectrum disorder.
Anonymous
09/18/2012 07:56
Subject: Re:The Kennedys are a class act.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or my personal favorite, having one of their kids lobotomized. For having a lower-than-average IQ. And sneaking out of the convent they sent her to.
Real class act, those Kennedys.
There are many legitimate reasons to criticize the Kennedys. Lobotomization and institutionalization of developmentally challenged children was the absolute standard of care at the time when Rose Kennedy did it. You should familiarize yourself with the RFKs' family foundation "Best Buddies" to really appreciate what an ignorant swipe you are taking at them on that issue. You are clueless.
I'm not, actually.
She was developmentally able enough to keep a diary in which she detailed going to parties, picking out dresses, having teas and meeting President Roosevelt. She was institutionalized and lobotomized for displeasing her parents by escaping the convent they sent her to. At the time it was done to her, it was considered a new procedure. It was NOT the standard of care. Her classy father never visited her again after he had her lobotomized.
The foundation was formed years later, perhaps due to familial guilt? Klassy.
It was also done because they feared she would become pregnant out of wedlock as she was sexually active. Screwing around is a pastime reserved only for the boys in the Kennedy family.
Lobotomized as a young woman
"But as she got older, her father worried that his daughter’s mild condition would lead her into situations that could damage the family’s reputation."
“Rosemary was a woman, and there was a dread fear of pregnancy, disease and disgrace,” author Laurence Leamer wrote in an unauthorized Kennedy biography called “The Kennedy Women: The Saga of an American Family.” He wrote that Rosemary had taken to sneaking out of the convent where she was staying at the time.
Doctors told Joseph Kennedy that a lobotomy, a medical procedure in which the frontal lobes of a patient’s brain are scraped away, would help his daughter and calm her mood swings that the family found difficult to handle at home.
Psychosurgery was in its infancy at the time, and only a few hundred lobotomies had been performed. The procedure was believed to be a way to relieve serious mental disorders. Leamer wrote that Rosemary was “probably the first person with mental retardation in America to receive a prefrontal lobotomy.”
You know what is really sad? A person like you who is quoting an unauthorized biography (which basically has NO standard of truth whatsoever) to support your expertise on the field of psychiatric surgery (which is what it is called, not "psychosurgery"). Going around judging a painful chapter in a family's life with 50/50 hindsight is usually the activity of people who are compensating for their OWN guilt. Work out what your issues are with your SN child with a therapist, PP. But if blaming Joe Kennedy for it makes you feel better go for it. I also have a special needs kids. It has made me more sensitive to human frailty--clearly not the case for you. But carry on with your quotes from 'unauthorized celebrity biographers'.
You are talking to two different posters. I am the SN parent who posted above and I did not post quoting this book. I have never read this book.
Anonymous
09/18/2012 07:55
Subject: Re:The Kennedys are a class act.
From the Scienceblogs article on neurophilosophy:
The lobotomy was first performed on humans in the 1890s. About half a century later, it was being touted by some as a miracle cure for mental illness, and its use became widespread; during its heyday in the 1940s and ’50s, the lobotomy was performed on some 40,000 patients in the United States, and on around 10,000 in Western Europe. The procedure became popular because there was no alternative, and because it was seen to alleviate several social crises: overcrowding in psychiatric institutions, and the increasing cost of caring for mentally ill patients...
The use of lobotomies began to decline in the mid- to late-1950s, for several reasons. Firstly, although there had always been critics of the technique, opposition to its use became very fierce. Secondly, and most importantly, phenothiazine-based neuroleptic (anti-psychotic) drugs, such as chlorpromazine, became widely available. These had much the same effect as psychosurgery gone wrong; thus, the surgical method was quickly superseded by the chemical lobotomy.
Don't be so smug about something so bitterly painful to people who are still living with the consequences of the decision to do this.
The lobotomy was first performed on humans in the 1890s. About half a century later, it was being touted by some as a miracle cure for mental illness, and its use became widespread; during its heyday in the 1940s and ’50s, the lobotomy was performed on some 40,000 patients in the United States, and on around 10,000 in Western Europe. The procedure became popular because there was no alternative, and because it was seen to alleviate several social crises: overcrowding in psychiatric institutions, and the increasing cost of caring for mentally ill patients...
The use of lobotomies began to decline in the mid- to late-1950s, for several reasons. Firstly, although there had always been critics of the technique, opposition to its use became very fierce. Secondly, and most importantly, phenothiazine-based neuroleptic (anti-psychotic) drugs, such as chlorpromazine, became widely available. These had much the same effect as psychosurgery gone wrong; thus, the surgical method was quickly superseded by the chemical lobotomy.
Don't be so smug about something so bitterly painful to people who are still living with the consequences of the decision to do this.