Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is a 1950s husband??

Don Draper or Roger Whateverthehellhislastnameis? Sixties husbands, but similar. Don't think anyone is nominating either of them for husband of the year, though.

If this is what he meant then I don't understand. He IS being a 1950s husband because both of those men were selfish and walked out on their wives/kid(s). So that's what his wife wants?

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is a 1950s husband??

One that doesn't play tennis and get to play arts and crafts.

Anonymous wrote:

This. OP, my kids seem to have internalized their dad leaving us (midlife crisis) as they weren't worth caring about. Ex thinks thousands of dollars of therapy will "fix" it but it's not the same thing as a dad who dug deep, realized happiness comes from within and from being a good person, and who built a good childhood for them. Kids from single parent homes do not do as well, there isn't enough to go around - time, attention, $, and the kids have to make adjustments that they don't have the resources to navigate. My ex was so into the nesting idea/kids stay put and parents move in and out, if we ever split, then decided it was "too much" for him to live like that, better to foist it on preschoolers.

This makes me nuts, and I've seen it all over this thread, starting on the first page. (Sorry, PP, this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.) While it's possible that it's true in your case (the rest of your post is tl;dr), most divorced women I know misuse this phrase. He didn't leave "us," he left you, the spouse, the individual. There's a big, big difference. I know there are men who really leave their families - don't see the kids anymore, don't appear to care about them - and they suck beyond words. But more often, I think, men (and women) leave their spouse, and still are parents to the kids, and involved with them. Saying "he left us" is a combination of victimization, pity party, and attempting to mate the leaving spouse appear to worse than s/he really is. I know it comes from a place of hurt, but that doesn;t make it accurate, or healthy. I really hope you don't pass on that narrative to your kids.

I don't know, PP. The generic dad in this situation really is leaving "the family," not just the mom. He is looking at being an intact family unit and he's saying no, I don't want that, I'd rather be on my own. I don't doubt that he still gets them on weekends or whatever, but still, like the dad in this example, he is saying that he'd rather be on his own and play tennis and volunteer than keep his family together. I don't think the OP was very clear, but let's say the main issue here was that he wanted to be free to work long hours (ambitious) and travel half the year. Mom couldn't put up with that and all that went along with it (particularly after she was constantly being accused of being a prison guard when she tried to discipline the few times he was actually around). Dad chooses his image as an ambitious, lofty thinking businessman over staying with his wife and kids.

I'm totally extrapolating from OP's post, but let's assume that's just a generic example. In that case, I would definitely say that dad left "us." Because when you start a family and you choose to leave, you leave the family. I think in general terms that any dad insisting that he left the wife and not the kids is just trying to make HIMself feel better about what he did.

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is a 1950s husband??

Don Draper or Roger Whateverthehellhislastnameis? Sixties husbands, but similar. Don't think anyone is nominating either of them for husband of the year, though.

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is a 1950s husband??

Ward Cleaver or the husband on the Donna Reed show?

OP, one suggestion is a different type of therapy. Have you tried EFT (Emotionally Focused Therapy) with your wife? There is a very high rate of success, even with couples on the brink of divorce.

What the heck is a 1950s husband??

This. OP, my kids seem to have internalized their dad leaving us (midlife crisis) as they weren't worth caring about. Ex thinks thousands of dollars of therapy will "fix" it but it's not the same thing as a dad who dug deep, realized happiness comes from within and from being a good person, and who built a good childhood for them. Kids from single parent homes do not do as well, there isn't enough to go around - time, attention, $, and the kids have to make adjustments that they don't have the resources to navigate. My ex was so into the nesting idea/kids stay put and parents move in and out, if we ever split, then decided it was "too much" for him to live like that, better to foist it on preschoolers.

This makes me nuts, and I've seen it all over this thread, starting on the first page. (Sorry, PP, this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.) While it's possible that it's true in your case (the rest of your post is tl;dr), most divorced women I know misuse this phrase. He didn't leave "us," he left you, the spouse, the individual. There's a big, big difference. I know there are men who really leave their families - don't see the kids anymore, don't appear to care about them - and they suck beyond words. But more often, I think, men (and women) leave their spouse, and still are parents to the kids, and involved with them. Saying "he left us" is a combination of victimization, pity party, and attempting to mate the leaving spouse appear to worse than s/he really is. I know it comes from a place of hurt, but that doesn;t make it accurate, or healthy. I really hope you don't pass on that narrative to your kids.

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you at least thought about an open marriage, or one in which dalliances aren't regarded as the death of the marriage? (e.g. if OP meets a woman playing tennis, or OP's wife meets a single dad, or whatever.)

I suspect most of the Defenders of Marriage on this thread would blanche at the idea, but ...

It's at least debatable if "Mommy having a boyfriend" and "Daddy having a girlfriend" is less damaging to kids than "Daddy moving out." It all depends on how intrinsically jealous you two are, how your kids are (I suspect after about age 10, it starts being preferable for the kids to have divorced parents as opposed to "Mommy's boyfriend" or "Daddy's girlfriend always around.)

And, let's face it. The idea that husbands and wives have to do every-frickin-thing together is a fairly recent construct. If OP's wife is coming home and trying to get all her support from OP, that's not healthy either.

Why do some people think this would be the solution to every marital situation??? It's not. I would rather divorce my husband than him come up to me and tell me he wants an open marriage to sleep with other people...you know, his way of asking my permission to cheat. I know on here it's been said over and over how 'archaic' this concept is, but there are still people out there that would prefer to stay within his/her marriage and it doesn't mean anything bad.

Anonymous wrote:Yikes people! OP only has a very limited space to fit his words on the page. He may not have chosen the best words and may not have given you the level of detail that you would like. That doesn't mean that this couple didn't try everything under the sun and that doesn't mean that the marriage is salvagable. Maybe the DW doesn't want to keep going. Maybe the OP does accept his part in the breakdown. None of us want to see a couple divorce when there are children involved and I would hope that there is some small chance these two people could reconcile. We just don't have all of the information. To come to some of the conclusions that people are jumping to is unfair. Slow down.

That's the point. The few words he used spoke VOLUMES. It's not that I don't have a ton of compassion for this man and his family. I do. But his message was very clear: my wife was awful and I am pretty great.

That is just not going to get you far. The wife didn't "cause" all of the problems in the marriage. She contributed to many, as did he.

Anonymous wrote:OP, if you think that eventually your kids will be OK with this and you and your wife will move on, no big deal, think again. They are always going to wish that mom and dad were there as a couple the night of the prom, or graduation, or first day of college. And if either of you ever get remarried, there are going to be more dynamics put into their lives that did not have to happen.

It is not too late to take some action. Maybe it is going to take a bunch of good cries, but is that so bad?

This. OP, my kids seem to have internalized their dad leaving us (midlife crisis) as they weren't worth caring about. Ex thinks thousands of dollars of therapy will "fix" it but it's not the same thing as a dad who dug deep, realized happiness comes from within and from being a good person, and who built a good childhood for them. Kids from single parent homes do not do as well, there isn't enough to go around - time, attention, $, and the kids have to make adjustments that they don't have the resources to navigate. My ex was so into the nesting idea/kids stay put and parents move in and out, if we ever split, then decided it was "too much" for him to live like that, better to foist it on preschoolers.

OP you sound lonely. It sucks to be lonely in a relationship, I do hear pain. But your kids won't care that you are alone and don't have arm candy on Xmas, they will want to wake up and know that their family is together. Find your way back to your wife and stop thinking things that don't matter are the most important. A lot of what you are saying sounds full of longing for connection. Best to get that with your family, no? How lonely is your wife and how scared is she feeling? They don't get to distract themselves with a new life, their life has a huge hole in it. My kids lost a lot of time adjusting to divorce that they could have spent being happy or building friendships. It takes 2-4 years for a "new normal" to feel stable. Do you really want to do that? Do you really want them to be more vulnerable to risky behavior at the ages they are? If you have girls they are more likely to be attracted to people who are emotionally unavailable and who won't commit and if boys they are more likely to walk out on their family. Is that what you want for them or your possible grandchildren?

Don't talk about what is wrong with your wife or what you tried that didn't work. You sound wistful and romantic and a little lost OP. Wanted different things is just a platitude. You chose to have your kids, you need to do better by them.

OP, did you have a happy childhood and did your parents have a strong marriage? If not, you might just have copied that model, now feel unhappy and just don't know what else to do. It sounds like your married life got kind of polarized and that there wasn't a good balance of shared interests and alone time. Do you have older men in your life that you can talk to about navigating midlife issues? Family, mentors, older friends?

If you invested the time and money in courting your wife that you will spend setting up a separate life, where might it get you? What dreams are you refering to and how can you get there from where you are?

Yikes people! OP only has a very limited space to fit his words on the page. He may not have chosen the best words and may not have given you the level of detail that you would like. That doesn't mean that this couple didn't try everything under the sun and that doesn't mean that the marriage is salvagable. Maybe the DW doesn't want to keep going. Maybe the OP does accept his part in the breakdown. None of us want to see a couple divorce when there are children involved and I would hope that there is some small chance these two people could reconcile. We just don't have all of the information. To come to some of the conclusions that people are jumping to is unfair. Slow down.

OP, have you at least thought about an open marriage, or one in which dalliances aren't regarded as the death of the marriage? (e.g. if OP meets a woman playing tennis, or OP's wife meets a single dad, or whatever.)

I suspect most of the Defenders of Marriage on this thread would blanche at the idea, but ...

It's at least debatable if "Mommy having a boyfriend" and "Daddy having a girlfriend" is less damaging to kids than "Daddy moving out." It all depends on how intrinsically jealous you two are, how your kids are (I suspect after about age 10, it starts being preferable for the kids to have divorced parents as opposed to "Mommy's boyfriend" or "Daddy's girlfriend always around.)

And, let's face it. The idea that husbands and wives have to do every-frickin-thing together is a fairly recent construct. If OP's wife is coming home and trying to get all her support from OP, that's not healthy either.

OP, if you think that eventually your kids will be OK with this and you and your wife will move on, no big deal, think again. They are always going to wish that mom and dad were there as a couple the night of the prom, or graduation, or first day of college. And if either of you ever get remarried, there are going to be more dynamics put into their lives that did not have to happen.

It is not too late to take some action. Maybe it is going to take a bunch of good cries, but is that so bad?

That you don't want to be romantically involved again suggests to me that there is a lot of hurt inside that you may think is coming from your wife but really is about you and possibly your family of origen. Call your wife. Tell her you keep thinking about the first time you kissed.

I keep coming back to this. Let's say he started dating in HS and got married late 20s, early 30's. For him to mention this indicates it really must have meant something to him. How many people the day they file for divorce would even thing about this? Whatever happened, he owes his wife, children, and even himself a better explanation for why this marriage should end. If he is even saying that dating isn't something he cares about, what's the point?