I have cousins who were homeschooled (yes, in the south). The older ones got a pretty decent education, and went on to college and are now professionals. As my aunt got crazier, though, the "education" got more erratic. The younger two learned ONLY music and hebrew. I wonder if she got away with it because whatever oversight person was in charge of them knew that she had done a good job with the older ones, and thought she didn't need the supervision.

Point is, this happens all over. At least the Amish have a plan for their children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can the amish get away with not educating their kids? Is school not a basic right?
Sounds like a dangerous cult from the middle ages that should be stopped

They do educate their children, just not the same number of years that most people do. The Supreme Court ruled compulsory education couldn't be imposed upon the Amish as it would violate their right to religious freedom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder . Read the opinion see it's limitations - like the religion had to have been established prior to 1950 to qualify for an exemption.

You also need to do more research about the Amish to understand they are hardly dangerous (they're pacificists and didn't even represent themselves before the Supreme Court). They also aren't from the middle ages - just pre-industrial revolution.

Are you honestly saying that that is not a form of child abuse?
Relgious freedom??? Right to stay simple.... you can be educated and simple, or is that not possible.

They are dangerous if they do that, the lives of members are closely monitored, and they can be cruel. Cutting beards and shunning etc

What about people who homeschool? Or "homeschool" as the case may be. There's not much regulating that practice. Did you see Jesus Camp? Those poor kids won't have a clue.

There are regulations on homeschooling. I know personally as I was homeschooled and was tested every year. I got a fine education. Yes, there are people who get a poor homeschool education but I think they are far overshadowed by the great ones. Homeschooled kids can get way more one on one attention than kids in public or private schools and it shows. Some of the smartest people have been homeschooled.

I practice school/education law, and can assure you that in many states (southern ones especially), regulation is very loose and not enforced routinely. There are many, many children (especially of evangelical Christians along the lines of the Duggars) who are "homeschooled" which is code for, "taken care of by their older siblings, who are also responsible for housework."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can the amish get away with not educating their kids? Is school not a basic right?
Sounds like a dangerous cult from the middle ages that should be stopped

They do educate their children, just not the same number of years that most people do. The Supreme Court ruled compulsory education couldn't be imposed upon the Amish as it would violate their right to religious freedom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder . Read the opinion see it's limitations - like the religion had to have been established prior to 1950 to qualify for an exemption.

You also need to do more research about the Amish to understand they are hardly dangerous (they're pacificists and didn't even represent themselves before the Supreme Court). They also aren't from the middle ages - just pre-industrial revolution.

Are you honestly saying that that is not a form of child abuse?
Relgious freedom??? Right to stay simple.... you can be educated and simple, or is that not possible.

They are dangerous if they do that, the lives of members are closely monitored, and they can be cruel. Cutting beards and shunning etc

What about people who homeschool? Or "homeschool" as the case may be. There's not much regulating that practice. Did you see Jesus Camp? Those poor kids won't have a clue.

There are regulations on homeschooling. I know personally as I was homeschooled and was tested every year. I got a fine education. Yes, there are people who get a poor homeschool education but I think they are far overshadowed by the great ones. Homeschooled kids can get way more one on one attention than kids in public or private schools and it shows. Some of the smartest people have been homeschooled.

Anonymous wrote:The 1974 law should be removed. Attending school and access to health care are basic rights that cannot be denied in the name of religion.
And do not think that growing up in an amish community is romantic. Mother is pregnant every year and always tired, you spend your days doing manual labor around the house, farm from a young age. The parents hit their kids. Houses have no heating in winter. The education you get at those farmhouse schools is a joke.

Seriously?? Because you're formerly Amish and have first-hand experience? Do you realize how incredibly condescending and conceited it is to think someone can't be happy unless their life is exactly like yours?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has HAD to be atleast one Amish-English romance over the course of history. A hook-up!

Why so obsessed? Honest question.

Raging curiosity. I didn't grow up around Amish communities so I really figured this would be more common than it seems it is. I am surprised, really. Is it really that uncommon in areas with large Amish populations that teens it young adults aren't curious about each other and hookup? Or that a guy or girl not return from Rumspringa and marry in a big city like NYC or even a city like D.C.?

I can't speak to areas with more liberal Amish that do a year away from their communities, but where I grew up, the Amish boys simply weren't on our radar. Not even to the extent of being "off limits". It just wasn't an option, and we never gave it the first thought. Think about it. You don't go to school together, they don't hang out at the Dairy Queen. If you happen to strike up a conversation with a boy working at the farmers market, well, he's with a parent or siblings-- older ones who will look after him, or younger ones for whom he is responsible, and they will all leave together. He's not going to "catch a ride" in someone else's buggy after canoodling with you, and his farm is miles and miles away. Even if he does take a liking to you, he has no reason or opportunity to leave the farm to meet you anywhere, as family units are very tight. Not like he can say "I'm going to Eli Yoder's for dinner, back by 10." No, he's in bed by 8:30, because he was up before dawn. He lives way the hell out on some county road, so you're not going to meet him randomly in the neighborhood. He has no phone. His English isn't great. He's wearing homemade clothes and bathes once a week and has never had a haircut that wasn't administered by his mother or an older sister. He is devoutly religious. He has his own cohort of other Amish kids with whom he was raised from birth. There is basically nothing that would make a "hook up" desirable or practical, for either party.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can the amish get away with not educating their kids? Is school not a basic right?
Sounds like a dangerous cult from the middle ages that should be stopped

They do educate their children, just not the same number of years that most people do. The Supreme Court ruled compulsory education couldn't be imposed upon the Amish as it would violate their right to religious freedom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder . Read the opinion see it's limitations - like the religion had to have been established prior to 1950 to qualify for an exemption.

You also need to do more research about the Amish to understand they are hardly dangerous (they're pacificists and didn't even represent themselves before the Supreme Court). They also aren't from the middle ages - just pre-industrial revolution.

Are you honestly saying that that is not a form of child abuse?
Relgious freedom??? Right to stay simple.... you can be educated and simple, or is that not possible.

They are dangerous if they do that, the lives of members are closely monitored, and they can be cruel. Cutting beards and shunning etc

I agree to some extent, but this "freedom" is not limited to the Amish. The Duggars' kids are "educated" (I use that term loosely) at the School of the Diningroom Table, and taught creationism among other ridiculous things. Older siblings (not educated well themselves) teach younger ones. They are not prepared for life in the outside world at all, by design.

Is this not comparable?

The 1974 law should be removed. Attending school and access to health care are basic rights that cannot be denied in the name of religion.
And do not think that growing up in an amish community is romantic. Mother is pregnant every year and always tired, you spend your days doing manual labor around the house, farm from a young age. The parents hit their kids. Houses have no heating in winter. The education you get at those farmhouse schools is a joke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can the amish get away with not educating their kids? Is school not a basic right?
Sounds like a dangerous cult from the middle ages that should be stopped

They do educate their children, just not the same number of years that most people do. The Supreme Court ruled compulsory education couldn't be imposed upon the Amish as it would violate their right to religious freedom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder . Read the opinion see it's limitations - like the religion had to have been established prior to 1950 to qualify for an exemption.

You also need to do more research about the Amish to understand they are hardly dangerous (they're pacificists and didn't even represent themselves before the Supreme Court). They also aren't from the middle ages - just pre-industrial revolution.

Are you honestly saying that that is not a form of child abuse?
Relgious freedom??? Right to stay simple.... you can be educated and simple, or is that not possible.

They are dangerous if they do that, the lives of members are closely monitored, and they can be cruel. Cutting beards and shunning etc

Education though wonderful, is a privilege, not a right. Nothing stops the kids from growing up and seing higher education, though yes, it would be harder jumping back in at an older age. I cannot see how that is child abuse. My guess is that most Amish parents spend a lot more quality time with their kids than most busy DC families do and are a closer knit family as a result. I'd take attention over education any day.

Yes, as with the beard cutting, this shows that Amish people are just that, people. There are good and bad as with any group of people. In general though I do believe the crime rate is far below other people groups.

The law most definitely defines education as a right. That's why SN kids have IEP's. The SUpreme Court case the Amish won was decided back in 1974. I don't think they'd win today. That's also why this "rumspringa" business isn't a truly free choice. Without a high school diploma, these kids can't get jobs, and they end up living in pretty terrible conditions. Of course home looks pretty good after trying to live in NYC on minimum wage. They don't have the choices thatmost of the people on DCUM .

Not to mention that in many cases, you are shunned by your family and community if you don't return. Of course most people don't choose to try to make it with a 6 th grade education and no
ability to see or talk to the only people they've ever known or love ever again. How much of a true "choice" is that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has HAD to be atleast one Amish-English romance over the course of history. A hook-up!

Why so obsessed? Honest question.

Raging curiosity. I didn't grow up around Amish communities so I really figured this would be more common than it seems it is. I am surprised, really. Is it really that uncommon in areas with large Amish populations that teens it young adults aren't curious about each other and hookup? Or that a guy or girl not return from Rumspringa and marry in a big city like NYC or even a city like D.C.?

Maybe the Amish don't want to associate with the immoral and diseased.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has HAD to be atleast one Amish-English romance over the course of history. A hook-up!

Why so obsessed? Honest question.

Raging curiosity. I didn't grow up around Amish communities so I really figured this would be more common than it seems it is. I am surprised, really. Is it really that uncommon in areas with large Amish populations that teens it young adults aren't curious about each other and hookup? Or that a guy or girl not return from Rumspringa and marry in a big city like NYC or even a city like D.C.?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can the amish get away with not educating their kids? Is school not a basic right?
Sounds like a dangerous cult from the middle ages that should be stopped

They do educate their children, just not the same number of years that most people do. The Supreme Court ruled compulsory education couldn't be imposed upon the Amish as it would violate their right to religious freedom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder . Read the opinion see it's limitations - like the religion had to have been established prior to 1950 to qualify for an exemption.

You also need to do more research about the Amish to understand they are hardly dangerous (they're pacificists and didn't even represent themselves before the Supreme Court). They also aren't from the middle ages - just pre-industrial revolution.

Are you honestly saying that that is not a form of child abuse?
Relgious freedom??? Right to stay simple.... you can be educated and simple, or is that not possible.

They are dangerous if they do that, the lives of members are closely monitored, and they can be cruel. Cutting beards and shunning etc

Education though wonderful, is a privilege, not a right. Nothing stops the kids from growing up and seing higher education, though yes, it would be harder jumping back in at an older age. I cannot see how that is child abuse. My guess is that most Amish parents spend a lot more quality time with their kids than most busy DC families do and are a closer knit family as a result. I'd take attention over education any day.

Yes, as with the beard cutting, this shows that Amish people are just that, people. There are good and bad as with any group of people. In general though I do believe the crime rate is far below other people groups.

The law most definitely defines education as a right. That's why SN kids have IEP's. The SUpreme Court case the Amish won was decided back in 1974. I don't think they'd win today. That's also why this "rumspringa" business isn't a truly free choice. Without a high school diploma, these kids can't get jobs, and they end up living in pretty terrible conditions. Of course home looks pretty good after trying to live in NYC on minimum wage. They don't have the choices thatmost of the people on this board do.

Ther are certainly a lot of press report about physical and sexual abuse of kids among the Amish. I don't know how widespread it is, and the Amish don't tend to involve the police, which makes it hard to get real data. That's also why recidivism is such a problem.

Anonymous wrote:Didn't Harrison Ford date an Amish chick?

It's been ages since I've seen that one.

Anonymous wrote:There has HAD to be atleast one Amish-English romance over the course of history. A hook-up!

Why so obsessed? Honest question.

There has HAD to be atleast one Amish-English romance over the course of history. A hook-up!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can the amish get away with not educating their kids? Is school not a basic right?
Sounds like a dangerous cult from the middle ages that should be stopped

I'm laughing at you. You know nothing about the Amish. They're universally kind and hardworking, and their child abuse rates approach zero. Even in the communities that allow a year away ("Rumspringa") the vast majority choose to return.

As for having sex with an Amish farm hunk, I'm laughing at you, too. It was pretty much unthinkable where I grew up. In all my years living near and working with the Amish (I used to work in the front office at a doctor's office with a big Amish clientele) I never heard of any relationships between Amish and English.

i would agree (grew up in PA Dutch country(. Also, and I don't mean to be mean, but the lack of deodorant makes them less than ideal fling material. those barns get smelly!