Anonymous
07/05/2012 16:55
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Re the comment below - Nonsense! I have been reading along, and I would love to see the hilarious mess that the OP makes - complete with a "parent correctness" panel (to help keep out the "low Socio-Economic Status" kids) !!! I see a truly high fun-potential to watching this unfold.
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"I really think you need to put some thought into whether you are equipped to do this better than the school system. Because I don't think there is anyone reading this thread who thinks you are at all prepared for this.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 16:51
Subject: Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
We live in Old Town and I'd add just a couple of comments. Our kids went through Saint Mary's and it's ability to educate so (relatively) cheaply is based on 1) an economy of scale-75 kids/grade for 9 grades plus more in pre-K, 2) a heavy subsidy from the Church which considers education as part of its mission; and 3) as any private school parent will tell you, lots of additional money from parents beyond tuition - classroom fees, books, the annual auction, etc.
Second, everybody around here loves Lyles-Crouch, which is why there are so few "walkers" at Saint Mary's. Some Saint Mary's kids are from the City, but most are from Fairfax County. Neighbors have had mixed success with GW middle school. Some hate it and flee, others survive and move on to TC, and others run for the Parkway without even trying it. We have had the public high school experience with one child for a while and it was not bad at all. Getting a break from tuition was great.
Finally, relax! People stress so much around here about this or that school. For the most part, it's going to come down to the child. The school's "brand" is not going to matter that much in the long run. Ya, I said it. Let the flaming begin. What you really need to do is think for a while about the purpose of school. Yes, there is a lot of " wasted time" in school. But what else would the kids be doing? Wasting time watching TV or are you really going to have them down at the National Gallery fingerpainting?
BTW we looked into homeschooling many years ago. There's a lot of administrative work involved. A consensus seems to be building here that that is the way to go. Maybe. You will be able to control the academics more. But if it were me to do over again, I think I'd try the City schools at least to start. Jeff Houston, excluded.
Second, everybody around here loves Lyles-Crouch, which is why there are so few "walkers" at Saint Mary's. Some Saint Mary's kids are from the City, but most are from Fairfax County. Neighbors have had mixed success with GW middle school. Some hate it and flee, others survive and move on to TC, and others run for the Parkway without even trying it. We have had the public high school experience with one child for a while and it was not bad at all. Getting a break from tuition was great.
Finally, relax! People stress so much around here about this or that school. For the most part, it's going to come down to the child. The school's "brand" is not going to matter that much in the long run. Ya, I said it. Let the flaming begin. What you really need to do is think for a while about the purpose of school. Yes, there is a lot of " wasted time" in school. But what else would the kids be doing? Wasting time watching TV or are you really going to have them down at the National Gallery fingerpainting?
BTW we looked into homeschooling many years ago. There's a lot of administrative work involved. A consensus seems to be building here that that is the way to go. Maybe. You will be able to control the academics more. But if it were me to do over again, I think I'd try the City schools at least to start. Jeff Houston, excluded.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 16:41
Subject: Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I think you missed the part about it being a co-op school. All the parents are involved and work together. If everyone collectively decided that someone was not a good fit then they would be kicked out. This is very unlikely. Parents and teacher (s) would work together to resolve all issues. It's not like someone is going to be sitting in an office kicking students out of the school. Also, everyone would have to agree to the model and programs of the school beforehand and everyone would have to support it.
Look, I just hate to tell you this, but that's completely illegal and if you do that, you are going to get sued. You cannot allow a parent to see someone else's kid's educational, behavioral, or developmental records, either directly or indirectly. That's not just Buckley Amendment - it's state privacy law. And VA (surprisingly?) has a fairly aggressivestate civil rights law -- you simply will have to accommodate reasonably foreseeable disabilities, including non-dangerous behavior issues. You can't just generally give parents a vote -- this would not qualify as a private membership club.
Kids get kicked out of private schools. It happens. It does.
I am not talking about kicking someone out because they are naughty. geesh! if someone is not a good fit for the school then they would probably just leave. The group of us talking about this school are all friends and not interested in kicking out each other's children. We just want to provide a good learning environment for our kids. We don't want them learning things from children who come from homes with no rules, where children aren't supervised, where they weren't taught right from wrong and learn things at an early age. I am not trying to be judgemental about kids who come from low SES families, but there are differences. Jefferson Houston is predominantly low SES.
We are just looking for a less expensive alternative to educate our children and everyone wants to be really involved. As many people have mentioned, maybe a homeschool co-op would be a good idea. ( as i have said several times now)
You were the one who used the word naughty. And until you started dialing it back in the last few posts, kicking out the "deliberately naughty" kids was one of the motivations for your school. So now you are changing this to essentially screening for "good" families. Are you going to kick kids out or not? What private schools generally do is counsel students out. They also reserve the right not to renew a contract. The people who make this decision are not other parents. In fact, if an administrator has a child at the school they will remove themselves from any decisions involving that child. You cannot share a child's private information with other parents. I really think you need to put some thought into whether you are equipped to do this better than the school system. Because I don't think there is anyone reading this thread who thinks you are at all prepared for this.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 16:39
Subject: Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
OP, you need to involve more people with an EDUCATION background, not just your parent friends (I think you mentioned ONE teacher, not nearly enough expertise for this undertaking!!)
Honestly the discussions about "trouble" children and your broad ideas about all low income people are somewhat disturbing.
I have a background in private education and have worked with many center directors, it takes a lifetime of education and experience to run a center well and meet the needs of it's students. It shouldn't be just a hair-brained scheme to get your special snowflake away from the low-income kids! (who apparently weren't raised with any values as you stated.) Clearly your program won't offer financial aid
Honestly the discussions about "trouble" children and your broad ideas about all low income people are somewhat disturbing.
I have a background in private education and have worked with many center directors, it takes a lifetime of education and experience to run a center well and meet the needs of it's students. It shouldn't be just a hair-brained scheme to get your special snowflake away from the low-income kids! (who apparently weren't raised with any values as you stated.) Clearly your program won't offer financial aid
Anonymous
07/05/2012 16:15
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
The education was weak. Parents were not educated either. I do not want my children to have the same experiences. I want better for my children. Is that so wrong?
Of course not. I agree that the quality of the academics at private schools is superior. But there are still plenty of troubled kids, they're just rich instead of poor.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 16:07
Subject: Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I think you missed the part about it being a co-op school. All the parents are involved and work together. If everyone collectively decided that someone was not a good fit then they would be kicked out. This is very unlikely. Parents and teacher (s) would work together to resolve all issues. It's not like someone is going to be sitting in an office kicking students out of the school. Also, everyone would have to agree to the model and programs of the school beforehand and everyone would have to support it.
Look, I just hate to tell you this, but that's completely illegal and if you do that, you are going to get sued. You cannot allow a parent to see someone else's kid's educational, behavioral, or developmental records, either directly or indirectly. That's not just Buckley Amendment - it's state privacy law. And VA (surprisingly?) has a fairly aggressivestate civil rights law -- you simply will have to accommodate reasonably foreseeable disabilities, including non-dangerous behavior issues. You can't just generally give parents a vote -- this would not qualify as a private membership club.
Kids get kicked out of private schools. It happens. It does.
I am not talking about kicking someone out because they are naughty. geesh! if someone is not a good fit for the school then they would probably just leave. The group of us talking about this school are all friends and not interested in kicking out each other's children. We just want to provide a good learning environment for our kids. We don't want them learning things from children who come from homes with no rules, where children aren't supervised, where they weren't taught right from wrong and learn things at an early age. I am not trying to be judgemental about kids who come from low SES families, but there are differences. Jefferson Houston is predominantly low SES.
We are just looking for a less expensive alternative to educate our children and everyone wants to be really involved. As many people have mentioned, maybe a homeschool co-op would be a good idea. ( as i have said several times now)
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:54
Subject: Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I think you missed the part about it being a co-op school. All the parents are involved and work together. If everyone collectively decided that someone was not a good fit then they would be kicked out. This is very unlikely. Parents and teacher (s) would work together to resolve all issues. It's not like someone is going to be sitting in an office kicking students out of the school. Also, everyone would have to agree to the model and programs of the school beforehand and everyone would have to support it.
Look, I just hate to tell you this, but that's completely illegal and if you do that, you are going to get sued. You cannot allow a parent to see someone else's kid's educational, behavioral, or developmental records, either directly or indirectly. That's not just Buckley Amendment - it's state privacy law. And VA (surprisingly?) has a fairly aggressivestate civil rights law -- you simply will have to accommodate reasonably foreseeable disabilities, including non-dangerous behavior issues. You can't just generally give parents a vote -- this would not qualify as a private membership club.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:48
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Op, you may want to talk to other parents who have successfully started schools. I know of at least two -- their schools serve special needs kids. While I realize that your proposed school would serve neuro-typical kids, the parent founders will likely have insight for you as to overhead, etc. I am thinking of the founders of The Diener School in Potomac and The Newton School in Sterling. There is also a school in Olney (name is escaping me at the moment but it may be Echelon). I did not visit the Olney school but from my discussions with the founder, it sounds like she started home schooling and then expanded to include chidren other than her own. She is in a rented space -- not her home.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:47
Subject: Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Anonymous wrote:I also reacted to this idea of trouble kids, and the heavy judgment you bring to this. I'm assuming you are referring to young children since you have this idea of containing them in one space with one teacher. How are you going to determine what is "deliberate naughty behavior"? Who judges and how? And how would this supreme judge be able to distinguish the "deliberate naughty" from the child with ADHD who just can't focus (yes, you will have that), the child who is bored, the child who can't keep up with the others for LD reasons or because he's just a different learning and therefore checks out? And how will you possibly be able to kick out a child from your coopy thingee without being sued by the parent?
Because this is how halfway decent schools deal with kids who have behavior problems -- they don't say "this child is deliberately naughty, bad bad bad. Rather they say "how can this child be taught to function in a classroom? Does he need a developmental evaluation? Does he need more structure? Does he need an eye exam (yes, it could be this)? The schools that are good will problem-solve with the parents. My DS had a tough time in kindergarten because of developmental issues that we have addressed, with the help of his school, and he is now a great student, a calm presence and (teacher's words) a joy to have in the classroom. I shudder to think what would have happened if he was in your little school thing and you gave him your evil eye of judgment.
This is not a small matter because it seems to be a huge element in your decision to go this route and you really, truly haven't thought it through. I'm going to be honest, what I read into your plan is a whole lot of anxiety about what will happen when you release your child to a school that you can't control. And my guess is that the best thing you can do for your child is release him or her to a school that you can't control. I also suggest you read Lessons of a Skinned Knee.
I think you missed the part about it being a co-op school. All the parents are involved and work together. If everyone collectively decided that someone was not a good fit then they would be kicked out. This is very unlikely. Parents and teacher (s) would work together to resolve all issues. It's not like someone is going to be sitting in an office kicking students out of the school. Also, everyone would have to agree to the model and programs of the school beforehand and everyone would have to support it.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:47
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
I suspect that you may be over-estimating the market.
If you very carefully review the City Council docket records, you'll see that about once every 2-4 years, someone applies for a permit to establish a very small-scale private school in Alexandria. Nearly none of them lasts. Parents who were going to devote all of their available time to teaching don't wind up doing so; money is tight; initial real estate deals don't work out; eventually, the tiny number of paid staffers is let go.
Compounding the difficulty is the significant increase in the popularity of the ACPS elementary programs. In the east-half of the City, there are Lyles-Crouch, Mason, Barrett, MacArthur, and Maury. Again, at this level, it's difficult to objectively define how any of the privates could be better in any material respect, and parents regularly pull their kids from private schools perfectly voluntarily to go to those five public schools.
If you determine space (good enough to be permit-compliant) at roughly $30 per square foot, with the first two months pre-payable (even assuming, generously, no need for a build-out), and you add insurance, and you add a lead teacher at a minimal $70k (total, including payroll taxes, insurance, SIMPLE-IRA, and related benefits would be roughly $89k), at least a Part-Time admin and a part-time ass't teacher, and then you assume 100% free-labor from parents, your minimum gross cost is about $265,000 per year. So that means , at $7k tuition, you'd need 38 kids whose parents will be paying in full. This would mean paying for a much worse ratio than at any public school anywhere in the region, with no enrichment, a barely-passable facility, no library, no gym, no formal curriculum, no specialists for interventions that smaller kids need (especially a reading specialist), etc.
If you very carefully review the City Council docket records, you'll see that about once every 2-4 years, someone applies for a permit to establish a very small-scale private school in Alexandria. Nearly none of them lasts. Parents who were going to devote all of their available time to teaching don't wind up doing so; money is tight; initial real estate deals don't work out; eventually, the tiny number of paid staffers is let go.
Compounding the difficulty is the significant increase in the popularity of the ACPS elementary programs. In the east-half of the City, there are Lyles-Crouch, Mason, Barrett, MacArthur, and Maury. Again, at this level, it's difficult to objectively define how any of the privates could be better in any material respect, and parents regularly pull their kids from private schools perfectly voluntarily to go to those five public schools.
If you determine space (good enough to be permit-compliant) at roughly $30 per square foot, with the first two months pre-payable (even assuming, generously, no need for a build-out), and you add insurance, and you add a lead teacher at a minimal $70k (total, including payroll taxes, insurance, SIMPLE-IRA, and related benefits would be roughly $89k), at least a Part-Time admin and a part-time ass't teacher, and then you assume 100% free-labor from parents, your minimum gross cost is about $265,000 per year. So that means , at $7k tuition, you'd need 38 kids whose parents will be paying in full. This would mean paying for a much worse ratio than at any public school anywhere in the region, with no enrichment, a barely-passable facility, no library, no gym, no formal curriculum, no specialists for interventions that smaller kids need (especially a reading specialist), etc.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:40
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Anonymous wrote:There are always "trouble" kids that take away from the overall learning environment. In most private schools this is not tolerated and there are consequences when a child acts out.
OP, have you ever gone to a private school? I did, and although the teachers were well educated and enthusiastic about their subjects and the class sizes were small, there were plenty of troublemakers, and I don't know of one kid that ever got kicked out (including sixth grade boys who repeatedly slapped, hit, and pushed fourth grade girls).
No, i went to public. It was a low SES public school. There were many discipline problems. Probably far far more than your private school experience. The education was weak. Parents were not educated either. I do not want my children to have the same experiences. I want better for my children. Is that so wrong?
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:37
Subject: Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
I also reacted to this idea of trouble kids, and the heavy judgment you bring to this. I'm assuming you are referring to young children since you have this idea of containing them in one space with one teacher. How are you going to determine what is "deliberate naughty behavior"? Who judges and how? And how would this supreme judge be able to distinguish the "deliberate naughty" from the child with ADHD who just can't focus (yes, you will have that), the child who is bored, the child who can't keep up with the others for LD reasons or because he's just a different learning and therefore checks out? And how will you possibly be able to kick out a child from your coopy thingee without being sued by the parent?
Because this is how halfway decent schools deal with kids who have behavior problems -- they don't say "this child is deliberately naughty, bad bad bad. Rather they say "how can this child be taught to function in a classroom? Does he need a developmental evaluation? Does he need more structure? Does he need an eye exam (yes, it could be this)? The schools that are good will problem-solve with the parents. My DS had a tough time in kindergarten because of developmental issues that we have addressed, with the help of his school, and he is now a great student, a calm presence and (teacher's words) a joy to have in the classroom. I shudder to think what would have happened if he was in your little school thing and you gave him your evil eye of judgment.
This is not a small matter because it seems to be a huge element in your decision to go this route and you really, truly haven't thought it through. I'm going to be honest, what I read into your plan is a whole lot of anxiety about what will happen when you release your child to a school that you can't control. And my guess is that the best thing you can do for your child is release him or her to a school that you can't control. I also suggest you read Lessons of a Skinned Knee.
Because this is how halfway decent schools deal with kids who have behavior problems -- they don't say "this child is deliberately naughty, bad bad bad. Rather they say "how can this child be taught to function in a classroom? Does he need a developmental evaluation? Does he need more structure? Does he need an eye exam (yes, it could be this)? The schools that are good will problem-solve with the parents. My DS had a tough time in kindergarten because of developmental issues that we have addressed, with the help of his school, and he is now a great student, a calm presence and (teacher's words) a joy to have in the classroom. I shudder to think what would have happened if he was in your little school thing and you gave him your evil eye of judgment.
This is not a small matter because it seems to be a huge element in your decision to go this route and you really, truly haven't thought it through. I'm going to be honest, what I read into your plan is a whole lot of anxiety about what will happen when you release your child to a school that you can't control. And my guess is that the best thing you can do for your child is release him or her to a school that you can't control. I also suggest you read Lessons of a Skinned Knee.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:31
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
There are always "trouble" kids that take away from the overall learning environment. In most private schools this is not tolerated and there are consequences when a child acts out.
OP, have you ever gone to a private school? I did, and although the teachers were well educated and enthusiastic about their subjects and the class sizes were small, there were plenty of troublemakers, and I don't know of one kid that ever got kicked out (including sixth grade boys who repeatedly slapped, hit, and pushed fourth grade girls).
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:31
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Anonymous wrote:I'm not a homeschooler but I do know several families involved in co-ops with some similarities to your idea (meaning they hire a teacher, meet in a shared space) but generally it's only part of their schooling--2 days per week, or only math and science. It may be possible to do a more expanded co-op while homeschooling, which seems immeasurably simpler than starting a private school.
OP again. Thanks. Yes, this seems like a good idea and may be a good place to start. A private school could always grow out of this in the future.
Anonymous
07/05/2012 15:27
Subject: Re:Is starting a small private school in Alexandria a good idea?
Alexandria Friends School also had to close this past year due to under enrollment. However, they were a Quaker high school and then tried to change it to a middle school.
I'm really sad to hear that, it looked like a place that would have been a good fit for our family.