Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 10:56     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
If you visit any weekend foreign language school (Chinese, Arabic, Urdu, etc.) in the U.S. attended by children of mostly native born parents (and even foreign born kids) from whichever country, the kids are speaking English in the playground, prefer to speak English, and will only speak whatever is the native language of their parents if they are prompted even if they are bilingual or nearly so in both languages. It's called assimilation.

Canada is a bilingual country with two official languages...

I have no problem with YY not giving preference to Chinese speakers (not many Mandarin speakers in DC anyway). The program has worked great for my DC in preK and yes, he has gone from knowing no Mandarin at all to being able to have conversations in Mandarin. The kids speak Mandarin in the classrooms to each other where Mandarin is required but not the playground, pretty amazing considering most have had no exposure at all prior to school.

His accent is "good" according to my native born Mandarin speaking babysitters and friends from China. He will never sound like a native but that is not expected since he is a foreigner.

We love the principal, administration and teachers. All hard working who genuinely care about the kids. No complaints at all.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 10:47     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Wow. My DH is chinese american. We send our kids to YYand are very happy with the progress they are making. Disagree that you need to have a certain # of chinese kids in order to have a successful immersion program. Immersion programs should be open for all who are interested in learning the language, not those who are already speak chinese.

I'm far from convinced. Visit the playground at Oyster. You hear as many Spanish conversations taking place as English. Then visit the YY playground - almost every conversation that doesn't involve a teacher in English. Not sure what you consider a succesful program, but how could it hurt to have, borrowing language offered by another PP, a critical mass of bilingual kids modeling the language and culture for the others?

Of course you don't want all the kids speaking the language of immersion at a US ES, but I'd wager that 1/3 or 1/2 would work a lot better than whatever YY's doing (a mystery since, as the snippy head likes to point out, no data on the number of bilingual kids being collected!). There are a number of good, recent academic studies on bilingual education from Canada, since the country does so much of it (mainly French-English), proving that English-speaking kids in immersion programs accrue great benefit from having many bilingual peers.

Did you read the last message on this board before you posted? Yu Ying (probably) would love to have the selective admission option that Oyster has, but it doesn't. Bummer, but you should be slamming the City Council, not the school.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 09:40     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:Wow. My DH is chinese american. We send our kids to YYand are very happy with the progress they are making. Disagree that you need to have a certain # of chinese kids in order to have a successful immersion program. Immersion programs should be open for all who are interested in learning the language, not those who are already speak chinese.


I'm far from convinced. Visit the playground at Oyster. You hear as many Spanish conversations taking place as English. Then visit the YY playground - almost every conversation that doesn't involve a teacher in English. Not sure what you consider a succesful program, but how could it hurt to have, borrowing language offered by another PP, a critical mass of bilingual kids modeling the language and culture for the others?

Of course you don't want all the kids speaking the language of immersion at a US ES, but I'd wager that 1/3 or 1/2 would work a lot better than whatever YY's doing (a mystery since, as the snippy head likes to point out, no data on the number of bilingual kids being collected!). There are a number of good, recent academic studies on bilingual education from Canada, since the country does so much of it (mainly French-English), proving that English-speaking kids in immersion programs accrue great benefit from having many bilingual peers.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 08:41     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Oh helllllll, no! Those parents must have pretty unrealistic expectations. You can't borrow a culture. You have to live it yourself. It's one thing if you, as in PP, voluntarily offer to share your experiences. But really it's the school's job to maximize culture and language learning. I'm a transracial adoptee and now multilingual parent at an immersion school. Not at YY, but I get how tiring the token thing can be. My child definitely disappointed a few parents when he spoke English during playdates and not his second (my 3rd and very rusty) language.

As to lotteries, English only speaking parents might want to lookf for immersion programs in DC that do give preference to or hold separate lottery for a non-English language. Not ethnic or racial preference, just target language ability like LAMB or Oyster.


Oyster is a DCPS school which was given special permission for the lottery. LAMB's practice of two lotteries were grandfathered. Since the change in charter laws, none of the other bilingual schools can have two separate lotteries. YY is not alone. Just like Basis cannot have a lottery based on the highest test scores, immersion schools cannot have lotteries based on a child's ability to speak a chosen language fluently.

Btw. What makes any of you think that simply because a child's parents speak a language, that child would be fluent in the language. I have Chinese friends whose children refused to learn the language. In my dating days, I dated guys who could not speak an ounce of spa sig, yet their parents spoke the language.

Finally, there are Chinese American parents at YY. Some speak no Chinese, some speak cantonese and no mandarin, and some speak mandarin. All the CHinese instructors are from China, Taiwan, or Hong Kong. I do agree that it would be nice if one of the head administrators, such as Exec director, principal, or vice principal spoke fluent Mandarin.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 08:04     Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You don't like YY? Move on! The WL is very long and a LOT of people are clamoring to get in...


What I find interesting here, as a parent (speaking Russian) who choose Oyster over YY is how threads about other immersion schools, whether DCPS or charer, don't talk about native speakers being alienated the way the YY ones do, not at all.

I went to a YY info night where I was put off partly by how brusquely a couple Chinese-American parents were treated when they asked how many bilingual kids (speaking any of the dialects) were in the school. The principal bit their heads off, coldly informing them that the school doesn't collect his data. Completely different story at Oyster, where administrators were not only upfront about roughly how many of the kids speak Spanish at home, they seemed to welcome questions along these lines. Just see how posters with valid sounding concerns about YY get clobbered on DCUMBD. The place didn't strike us as terribly welcoming or transparent. Obviously many other parents disagree, but it's never a bad thing to garner impressions off these threads. We are making fairly big decisions for our children.





the YY principal is a head biter who does not consider parents to be an important part of the school (for example, other administrators attend the PA meetings). Good luck with her.

But she's no longer principal--she's moved to a role that involves far less parent contact.


To those reading this post: The principal (and she will be the Head of School which means she is still the principal but will also have an assistant principal) is AMAZING. The problem for some people is that she does not crumble before aggressive parents and does not suffer fools gladly. She works tirelessly for the school. The teachers LOVE her and so do most of the parents. IF you want a principal that cares more about kids, curriculum, and classroom focus than on politics, then YY is for you. If you need a principal who cares more about what people think of her than about doing what is right and necessary, go somewhere else.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 07:12     Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You don't like YY? Move on! The WL is very long and a LOT of people are clamoring to get in...


What I find interesting here, as a parent (speaking Russian) who choose Oyster over YY is how threads about other immersion schools, whether DCPS or charer, don't talk about native speakers being alienated the way the YY ones do, not at all.

I went to a YY info night where I was put off partly by how brusquely a couple Chinese-American parents were treated when they asked how many bilingual kids (speaking any of the dialects) were in the school. The principal bit their heads off, coldly informing them that the school doesn't collect his data. Completely different story at Oyster, where administrators were not only upfront about roughly how many of the kids speak Spanish at home, they seemed to welcome questions along these lines. Just see how posters with valid sounding concerns about YY get clobbered on DCUMBD. The place didn't strike us as terribly welcoming or transparent. Obviously many other parents disagree, but it's never a bad thing to garner impressions off these threads. We are making fairly big decisions for our children.





the YY principal is a head biter who does not consider parents to be an important part of the school (for example, other administrators attend the PA meetings). Good luck with her.

But she's no longer principal--she's moved to a role that involves far less parent contact.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 06:48     Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You don't like YY? Move on! The WL is very long and a LOT of people are clamoring to get in...


What I find interesting here, as a parent (speaking Russian) who choose Oyster over YY is how threads about other immersion schools, whether DCPS or charer, don't talk about native speakers being alienated the way the YY ones do, not at all.

I went to a YY info night where I was put off partly by how brusquely a couple Chinese-American parents were treated when they asked how many bilingual kids (speaking any of the dialects) were in the school. The principal bit their heads off, coldly informing them that the school doesn't collect his data. Completely different story at Oyster, where administrators were not only upfront about roughly how many of the kids speak Spanish at home, they seemed to welcome questions along these lines. Just see how posters with valid sounding concerns about YY get clobbered on DCUMBD. The place didn't strike us as terribly welcoming or transparent. Obviously many other parents disagree, but it's never a bad thing to garner impressions off these threads. We are making fairly big decisions for our children.





the YY principal is a head biter who does not consider parents to be an important part of the school (for example, other administrators attend the PA meetings). Good luck with her.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 06:27     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Wow. My DH is chinese american. We send our kids to YYand are very happy with the progress they are making. Disagree that you need to have a certain # of chinese kids in order to have a successful immersion program. Immersion programs should be open for all who are interested in learning the language, not those who are already speak chinese.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2012 03:40     Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:You don't like YY? Move on! The WL is very long and a LOT of people are clamoring to get in...


What I find interesting here, as a parent (speaking Russian) who choose Oyster over YY is how threads about other immersion schools, whether DCPS or charer, don't talk about native speakers being alienated the way the YY ones do, not at all.

I went to a YY info night where I was put off partly by how brusquely a couple Chinese-American parents were treated when they asked how many bilingual kids (speaking any of the dialects) were in the school. The principal bit their heads off, coldly informing them that the school doesn't collect his data. Completely different story at Oyster, where administrators were not only upfront about roughly how many of the kids speak Spanish at home, they seemed to welcome questions along these lines. Just see how posters with valid sounding concerns about YY get clobbered on DCUMBD. The place didn't strike us as terribly welcoming or transparent. Obviously many other parents disagree, but it's never a bad thing to garner impressions off these threads. We are making fairly big decisions for our children.



Anonymous
Post 06/20/2012 23:16     Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:Why is this thread evolving into a "anti-YY" pissing context?
I am a YY parent -- No Chinese connection in our family.
Honestly, I am very happy to have a non-Chinese administrator at YY (and a great one at that!).
Would I want my kid to go to a Chinese school?? NO. I want my kid to go to an AMERICAN school in Chinese. If she can pick up a bit of Chinese, Chinese culture when she is there, it's great. If she does not, what's the problem? If she does but never uses it again, so what?? Do you use everything you learned in school??
The bonus? She is in a GREAT PUBLIC school and in the process is learning something new and unusual for her background.

and FYI: about 1/3 of the kids in my daughter's class have some connection to China: parents speaking Chinese (Chinese parents but some American parents who lived there for years), adopted kids whose parents (some ALSO Chinese) want to keep a connection to China.

You don't like YY? Move on!
The WL is very long and a LOT of people are clamoring to get in...


Don't worry about trying to win over the haters. You're not the Jackass whisperer.
Anonymous
Post 06/20/2012 22:52     Subject: Re:Sp or Ch language?
Why is this thread evolving into a "anti-YY" pissing context?
I am a YY parent -- No Chinese connection in our family.
Honestly, I am very happy to have a non-Chinese administrator at YY (and a great one at that!).
Would I want my kid to go to a Chinese school?? NO. I want my kid to go to an AMERICAN school in Chinese. If she can pick up a bit of Chinese, Chinese culture when she is there, it's great. If she does not, what's the problem? If she does but never uses it again, so what?? Do you use everything you learned in school??
The bonus? She is in a GREAT PUBLIC school and in the process is learning something new and unusual for her background.

and FYI: about 1/3 of the kids in my daughter's class have some connection to China: parents speaking Chinese (Chinese parents but some American parents who lived there for years), adopted kids whose parents (some ALSO Chinese) want to keep a connection to China.

You don't like YY? Move on!
The WL is very long and a LOT of people are clamoring to get in...
Anonymous
Post 06/20/2012 22:14     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Anonymous wrote:
It's just wasn't a lot of fun to be approached by one parent after another who wanted to draw on our cultural knowledge when we turned up at our kid's school, and often got defensive about the fact that so few other bilingual kids were there. We found the scene tiring and strange, but surely wouldn't have if we weren't Chinese. Being around parents who think that they know a good deal about Chinese culture, generally because they spent several weeks in China picking up an adopted baby girl, got old for us.


Oh helllllll, no! Those parents must have pretty unrealistic expectations. You can't borrow a culture. You have to live it yourself. It's one thing if you, as in PP, voluntarily offer to share your experiences. But really it's the school's job to maximize culture and language learning. I'm a transracial adoptee and now multilingual parent at an immersion school. Not at YY, but I get how tiring the token thing can be. My child definitely disappointed a few parents when he spoke English during playdates and not his second (my 3rd and very rusty) language.

As to lotteries, English only speaking parents might want to lookf for immersion programs in DC that do give preference to or hold separate lottery for a non-English language. Not ethnic or racial preference, just target language ability like LAMB or Oyster.
Anonymous
Post 06/20/2012 22:12     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
My brother who was born in Asia but raised elsewhere since he was two and moved back for high school has a noticible accent that we tease him about and ours isn't a tonal language like Mandarin. I'm not as polite as your cousins and I doubt they expect you to speak like a native since they consider you American.

We like Yu Ying very much. I was refering to learning Mandarin. All the teachers are native born Chinese, raised and educated in China. What I would expect and want from a language immersion school in any language. We don't have any expectations or preference about having many Chinese speaking families there either. We live in the US and if we want Chinese culture and Mandarin speakers, we'll go to China.
Anonymous
Post 06/20/2012 22:05     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
I'm not sure that it's possible to forecast which language will be more useful when your children are at the peak of their careers, 30 years from now.

I was in college in the 80's. Tons of my peers learned Japanese, but then two years later, the Japanese economy tanked, they came home, and they don't use their Japanese at all. The poli sci nerds I knew learned Russian, anticipating many more years of the Cold War. Oops. China trades a lot now, but large countries don't tend to trade much, so as China's incomes increase, they too will begin to consume more services (education, healthcare, housekeeping, insurance, banking), which don't tend to be traded across borders as much. Besides, you are in the US, and there will always be native speakers of CHinese, if that's what employers want.

Learning another language builds neuron connections, enables you to speak to people outside your social circle, and helps you to understand the structure of your native language better. Either one will be fine for those purposes.
Anonymous
Post 06/20/2012 21:44     Subject: Sp or Ch language?
Great you're ABC and part of ABC culture... I'm the other Asian person, born and raised partially there, at the beginning of the thread. Have many ABC friends but have no desire to have DC learn from ABCs. You know you are not considered "Chinese" by those born and raised in China but Americans - and no matter what you want to believe, your accent is "off".


Depends on how assimilated your family is, and how strong family ties to China remain. My grandparents and uncles never left. And my mother's English is still so weak that we kids only communicate with her in Chinese. My cousins in China don't tease me about my accent, they tease me about the size of my vocabulary. Whatever the case, we felt seriously Chinese around the YY parents and still don't get why the school doesn't have Chinese administrators to help draw in Chinese-speaking parents. Not sure what sort of learning you refer to - granted, we aren't the ones to learn Mandarin from.