Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it ok to leave a dog outside all day in moderate temps (50-80 degrees) with plenty of water and shady places to rest? If the dog is not a nuisance barker?

DH and I are thinking about a dog and we've noticed that people do not leave dogs outside as much as they did up here as they did when we lived in the south.

Yes. I believe the requirements are water, shade and shelter in an enclosed yard. We just recently started leaving our dogs in our yard and they are happier and less crazed when we get home.

But they drive the neighbors crazy when you are gone. What a selfish act!

Not PP, here. And you know this how?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it ok to leave a dog outside all day in moderate temps (50-80 degrees) with plenty of water and shady places to rest? If the dog is not a nuisance barker?

DH and I are thinking about a dog and we've noticed that people do not leave dogs outside as much as they did up here as they did when we lived in the south.

Yes. I believe the requirements are water, shade and shelter in an enclosed yard. We just recently started leaving our dogs in our yard and they are happier and less crazed when we get home.

But they drive the neighbors crazy when you are gone. What a selfish act!

OP,

You're on the right track. Based on the overbearing parenting of some of these women, I wouldn't take much of what they say regarding dog ownership to heart.

GL to you. You've gotten some good advice from the rational set.

Anonymous wrote:Do you people care this much about how humans are treated, or is this zeal just for your pets?

Pets only. Starving children and homeless people can go to hell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing: most dogs are social animals. That is why they are pack animals, historically; they like company. Leaving the whole outside-inside debate out of it, leaving a dog alone from 8-6 every work day seems counter-intuitive to me, and will most likely cause issues (and what about days you go to happy hour, or out to dinner straight from work?). I realize in this day and age (and economy!), most people don't have a choice to work shorter hours. That's fine, and also fine if you want to get a dog for company for when you are home. But since you don't have a choice of your work hours, and dogs are social animals who prefer company, it seems a no-brainer that your dog will be happier with regular visits from people, or in a daycare. It's not "spoiling" your dog, it's meeting your dog's needs. Before you think about adopting a rescue dog, I would really urge you to re-think your dog's care arrangements and your attitude about them. No need to send your dog to a daycare that your feel is frou-frou (although really most are not-have you really ever visited one?), get a regular dog-walker who will bring your dog to dog-parks, and spend time with it. Just as work habits have changed over the past 50 years, so have the needs of dogs. Just sayin'.

signed, a rescue dog-owner who never realized how truly lonely her dog had been until she stopped working to SAH .

OP again. This i do agree with. When we've had dogs, we have always had two for this reason, they seem so lonely when they are home by themselves because they are pack animals. Although, one dog I had about 12 years ago loved being the princess ad hated it when we brought home another! She was so funny

I really don't give a crap that the dog lovers of DCUM have painted me a bad dog owner. Most people who know me trust me with their pets. I am a regular dog sitter for many friends, some of whom send their dogs to fancy daycares daily. I do believe that many yuppie, educated dog owners have gone too far in placing Human emotions and desires onto their pets. At the end of the day, while I have loved my pets dearly and they haven truly made my life better, I recognize that they are animals, and not humans.

OP, seriously, many of these posters are crazy. I'd keep the dog inside during inclement weather, but during the more temperate seasons, I'd feel comfortable leaving him/her outside. As you mentioned in your original post, talk to any neighbors who stay home during the day, and ask them to report any barking or whining. If you have a good relationship with your neighbors, then odds are, they'll be more than willing to help you. Having a well-adjusted, well-trained dog is an asset to a neighborhood in terms of security. Have a contingency plan if it doesn't work out, so both your neighbors and your dog will be happy. Be willing to spend some money for dog walkers during the peak winter and summer months. A dog trainer who specializes in dog psychology may also be needed, regardless of whether or not it is an indoor or outdoor dog. Your best bet is to get a pack of two dogs, so they can have each other as company, but I think that's true of indoor or outdoor dogs.

I've never had an exclusively indoor dog and never would. My two German Shepherds (now deceased) would have gone nuts if they had been kept indoors all day.

Anonymous wrote:Well since it is rarely below 80 from May until october here I presume you will keep them inside when its hot and humid? Some types of dogs can't take that kind of heat.

You're wrong. Totally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, you city people have pretty strange thoughts about dogs. You realize they are meant to be outside, right? And this crating trend...you honestly think that it's better to keep a dog in a cage like a bird? The thing I would most be concerned about is barking and your neighbors.

This!

I agree. As long as your dog doesn't bark all day, outside in reasonable weather is perfectly fine.

21:56 - you need to either reread, or educated yourself. Hurting dogs is not tolerated in our society. By crazy neighbors or anyone else.

OP, you will know how much you can leave the dog outside once you acquire the dog. If your neighbors complain, just get another dog to keep the first dog company. At least it will annoy the complaining neighbor more, and you will have all of your defenses against the complaining neighbor in place (see PP). Really, some people need a hobby instead of complaining all day. Besides, if that neighbor complains enough they will become the problem themselves.

I have two herding dogs, and I have no issues with leaving them outside during the day. Obviously, the weather is a factor, and we leave them inside when the temperature goes above a certain range.(I don't think we've had an instance in our current house where it was low enough to be an issue yet) Other weather conditions(Rain, storms, etc) will also keep them inside. We have two, so they don't get too lonely and can distract each other. They aren't nuisance barkers, based on neighbors as well as our own observations when they were outside for long periods when we are home.(By choice. One of them loves just laying outside and sleeping, and will do so even given the option to come inside.) Our home backs up to an elementary school, which had crowds of young children playing not far from the fence for long periods of time, so they've gotten pretty desensitized to any noise outside the fence. As to the fence, the yard is entirely enclosed in a six foot privacy fence, with bolted gates, so there's not much chance of anything else coming inside.(Well, the rabbits and squirrels still get in, but I think the dogs can handle them) No, it wouldn't stop a determined human, but neither would my windows or doors either. Not something I'm going to let that risk rule everything I do.

Inside or outside really has little bearing on how well the dog is treated overall. A dog that remains inside can be abused and neglected while a dog that spends days outside can be extremely well cared for. This argument is no different from the daycare vs SAHM arguments. We all love the dogs, we just disagree on how they should be raised and cared for. That doesn't make any of us "right" or "wrong". You should decide what's best for you and your pets, but you shouldn't extend that decision to all other pet owners.

Anonymous wrote:But working dogs are working FOR someone; they have a lot of companionship because they are receiving instructions from a human.

Absolutely not always true. There are LOTS of working dogs that are meant to function without the human. Herding dogs need commands, guard dogs are meant to think alone.

But working dogs are working FOR someone; they have a lot of companionship because they are receiving instructions from a human.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, you city people have pretty strange thoughts about dogs. You realize they are meant to be outside, right? And this crating trend...you honestly think that it's better to keep a dog in a cage like a bird? The thing I would most be concerned about is barking and your neighbors.

Actually dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years. Wolves are meant to live outside; dogs are not.

My dog and others' dogs I know are not crated regardless of "trends." They live indoors, with people, because they are pets - not lawn ornaments.

Not pp, but, actually, the DNA of all dogs is almost identical to wolves. I don't leave our dog outside all day (he's tiny, and there are eagles around here that would carry him away), but I also don't get those who equate a dog being outside with dog abuse. Keeping a dog inside all the time is dog abuse. My little, frou frou designer dog LOVES being outside -- I have to go out and chase him back in the house, unless it's really cold or really hot. Dogs are NOT "little people with fur coats". That's an insult to the dogs.

Yes, but wolves are not domesticated, and that is a huge difference. There was a study on this awhile back; they raised wolf pups in a household to see if they could be domesticated to connect with humans as dogs do. They cannot.

Dogs are not little people with fur coats. But they do have deep connections to humans and need to be with us.

And it is cruel to leave a dog alone outdoors for 10 hours a day, regardless. It is inhumane.

Ok...maybe it is not ok to leave some neurotic toy dog outside all day. They are also more prone to injury, BUT some dogs thrive outside and not inside. What about all those working dogs whose job it is to be outside all day guarding??? Even in the snow, rain and heat...There are certain dogs that have more aloof temperments. Not every dog is identical, but some dogs will do VERY well with this arrangement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing: most dogs are social animals. That is why they are pack animals, historically; they like company. Leaving the whole outside-inside debate out of it, leaving a dog alone from 8-6 every work day seems counter-intuitive to me, and will most likely cause issues (and what about days you go to happy hour, or out to dinner straight from work?). I realize in this day and age (and economy!), most people don't have a choice to work shorter hours. That's fine, and also fine if you want to get a dog for company for when you are home. But since you don't have a choice of your work hours, and dogs are social animals who prefer company, it seems a no-brainer that your dog will be happier with regular visits from people, or in a daycare. It's not "spoiling" your dog, it's meeting your dog's needs. Before you think about adopting a rescue dog, I would really urge you to re-think your dog's care arrangements and your attitude about them. No need to send your dog to a daycare that your feel is frou-frou (although really most are not-have you really ever visited one?), get a regular dog-walker who will bring your dog to dog-parks, and spend time with it. Just as work habits have changed over the past 50 years, so have the needs of dogs. Just sayin'.

signed, a rescue dog-owner who never realized how truly lonely her dog had been until she stopped working to SAH .

OP again. This i do agree with. When we've had dogs, we have always had two for this reason, they seem so lonely when they are home by themselves because they are pack animals. Although, one dog I had about 12 years ago loved being the princess ad hated it when we brought home another! She was so funny

I really don't give a crap that the dog lovers of DCUM have painted me a bad dog owner. Most people who know me trust me with their pets. I am a regular dog sitter for many friends, some of whom send their dogs to fancy daycares daily. I do believe that many yuppie, educated dog owners have gone too far in placing Human emotions and desires onto their pets. At the end of the day, while I have loved my pets dearly and they haven truly made my life better, I recognize that they are animals, and not humans.

You asked a question about leaving dogs outside. You got answers. Most on this thread think that leaving a dog outdoors all day long constitutes neglect and is inhumane. Whether or not you agree with the answers to your question, you sought them. So if you don't want those answers, why did you post to begin with?

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing: most dogs are social animals. That is why they are pack animals, historically; they like company. Leaving the whole outside-inside debate out of it, leaving a dog alone from 8-6 every work day seems counter-intuitive to me, and will most likely cause issues (and what about days you go to happy hour, or out to dinner straight from work?). I realize in this day and age (and economy!), most people don't have a choice to work shorter hours. That's fine, and also fine if you want to get a dog for company for when you are home. But since you don't have a choice of your work hours, and dogs are social animals who prefer company, it seems a no-brainer that your dog will be happier with regular visits from people, or in a daycare. It's not "spoiling" your dog, it's meeting your dog's needs. Before you think about adopting a rescue dog, I would really urge you to re-think your dog's care arrangements and your attitude about them. No need to send your dog to a daycare that your feel is frou-frou (although really most are not-have you really ever visited one?), get a regular dog-walker who will bring your dog to dog-parks, and spend time with it. Just as work habits have changed over the past 50 years, so have the needs of dogs. Just sayin'.

signed, a rescue dog-owner who never realized how truly lonely her dog had been until she stopped working to SAH .

OP again. This i do agree with. When we've had dogs, we have always had two for this reason, they seem so lonely when they are home by themselves because they are pack animals. Although, one dog I had about 12 years ago loved being the princess ad hated it when we brought home another! She was so funny

I really don't give a crap that the dog lovers of DCUM have painted me a bad dog owner. Most people who know me trust me with their pets. I am a regular dog sitter for many friends, some of whom send their dogs to fancy daycares daily. I do believe that many yuppie, educated dog owners have gone too far in placing Human emotions and desires onto their pets. At the end of the day, while I have loved my pets dearly and they haven truly made my life better, I recognize that they are animals, and not humans.

Anonymous wrote:
Not pp, but, actually, the DNA of all dogs is almost identical to wolves.

Most mammals' DNA is almost identical to that of other mammals. If your argument is that domestic dogs are genetically and thus behaviorally like gray wolves, you should read John Bradshaw's Dog Sense.