Anonymous wrote:If people choose to have a slave it should be their choice. As long as you can figure a reason that the slave is somewhat less than a full person (like a fetus or iq below 105 or elderly or from an undeveloped country ) then others morality should not carry any weight.

I agree completely. Women should not be slaves to society, forced into risking their health and lives by carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term.

Pregnancy related complications are one of the top 10 killers of women of child-bearing age in the US. You cannot make pregnancy safe. It is always a risk to the life and health of a mother, even in a "perfect" pregnancy. As long as a woman's life is on the line, she should get to choose.

To the crazy poster who is equating abortion to slavery-

What are your thoughts about when a women is raped- Should she be forced into slavery because of another persons evil act?

This, right here, is special snowflake nonsense. You do not get to judge whether these women should or should not be ending their pgs. No. If you decided to terminate for reasons such as an extra chromosome, which you have decided is the best choice for you, you don't get a "pass." Come on. That's just crazy justification. Own your choice and accept that it is not any different from the meta level, it is just different for YOU. It may be hard to see the distinction, but, come on. Try.

I think you are misunderstanding. The PP was discussing whether women who have to term for medical reasons should have to go to a regular abortion clinic/waiting area. The only question is where they have to get their abortions, not whether one abortion is more acceptable than another.

I am not judging anyone's reasons. I am saying that perhaps making a woman who is ending a wanted pregnancy go to a regular abortion clinic is.... insensitive. If you read the stories in the expectant mother's thread on this issue, perhaps you will begin to understand the angst involved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agre 100%. There is a thread on expectant moms right now about women who are terminating for medical reasons, and some posters have noted that such women should not have to be in the same room, clinic, etc. as those not terminating for medical reasons. This is just hypocrisy. They are exercising their freedom of choice, even when choosing to end a pregnancy because of down syndrome, etc. It is simply not appropriate to feel that your choice is special and should be protected, and other womens' should not. There is no place to draw these lines -- what, women can abort if they have discovered their baby has an extra chromosome, but not if they, say, are a drug addict or a raging alcoholic. It needs to be understood that ALL WOMEN THAT CHOOSE TO END A PREGNANCY ARE USING THEIR FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

I'm pro choice but, I think there is an emotional difference between being forced to term a wanted pregnancy because of a problem and choosing to term for non-medical reasons.

I was horrified when I went into the hospital to have a DNC because of a miscarriage - and found myself in the maternity wing! Pictures of storks with bundles. My doctor was delivering a BABY in the next room. It added enormously to what was a very traumatic experience, the loss of a wanted baby. I even remember after my OB told me my baby had died in utero, I had to go sit out in his waiting room while the nurse scheduled my DNC - surrounded by big, swollen bellies. Awful.

I can see that it would be very painful to have to go to a regular abortion clinic to term your wanted pregnancy and be surrounded by all these women who are terming what are likely perfectly healthy, routine pregnancies. Definitely salt in the wound.

This, right here, is special snowflake nonsense. You do not get to judge whether these women should or should not be ending their pgs. No. If you decided to terminate for reasons such as an extra chromosome, which you have decided is the best choice for you, you don't get a "pass." Come on. That's just crazy justification. Own your choice and accept that it is not any different from the meta level, it is just different for YOU. It may be hard to see the distinction, but, come on. Try.

Anonymous wrote:10:11, you may go sit with the people who make this decision solely (and soul-ly) on theology.

Apparently theology has very little to do with the rate at which people have abortions: http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/prabort2.html

All reasonable people have completely left the building/this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

its exactly the same human failure. subjugation of a helpless soul in order to avoid hardship. people have not changed since the beginning of time....we practice evil and hate to be called on it.

Isn't the Bible A-OK with slavery?

no...love your neighbor as yourself.

its exactly the same human failure. subjugation of a helpless soul in order to avoid hardship. people have not changed since the beginning of time....we practice evil and hate to be called on it.

Isn't the Bible A-OK with slavery?

Anonymous wrote:

I can see that it would be very painful to have to go to a regular abortion clinic to term your wanted pregnancy and be surrounded by all these women who are terming what are likely perfectly healthy, routine pregnancies. Definitely salt in the wound.

But you don't know why they're having the abortion. Maybe they think that about you.

The point of allowing a woman to decide is that it is her decision, and the rest of the world is required to believe that she knows what she needs better than a group of legislators.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agre 100%. There is a thread on expectant moms right now about women who are terminating for medical reasons, and some posters have noted that such women should not have to be in the same room, clinic, etc. as those not terminating for medical reasons. This is just hypocrisy. They are exercising their freedom of choice, even when choosing to end a pregnancy because of down syndrome, etc. It is simply not appropriate to feel that your choice is special and should be protected, and other womens' should not. There is no place to draw these lines -- what, women can abort if they have discovered their baby has an extra chromosome, but not if they, say, are a drug addict or a raging alcoholic. It needs to be understood that ALL WOMEN THAT CHOOSE TO END A PREGNANCY ARE USING THEIR FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

I'm pro choice but, I think there is an emotional difference between being forced to term a wanted pregnancy because of a problem and choosing to term for non-medical reasons.

I was horrified when I went into the hospital to have a DNC because of a miscarriage - and found myself in the maternity wing! Pictures of storks with bundles. My doctor was delivering a BABY in the next room. It added enormously to what was a very traumatic experience, the loss of a wanted baby. I even remember after my OB told me my baby had died in utero, I had to go sit out in his waiting room while the nurse scheduled my DNC - surrounded by big, swollen bellies. Awful.

I can see that it would be very painful to have to go to a regular abortion clinic to term your wanted pregnancy and be surrounded by all these women who are terming what are likely perfectly healthy, routine pregnancies. Definitely salt in the wound.

OP, I agre 100%. There is a thread on expectant moms right now about women who are terminating for medical reasons, and some posters have noted that such women should not have to be in the same room, clinic, etc. as those not terminating for medical reasons. This is just hypocrisy. They are exercising their freedom of choice, even when choosing to end a pregnancy because of down syndrome, etc. It is simply not appropriate to feel that your choice is special and should be protected, and other womens' should not. There is no place to draw these lines -- what, women can abort if they have discovered their baby has an extra chromosome, but not if they, say, are a drug addict or a raging alcoholic. It needs to be understood that ALL WOMEN THAT CHOOSE TO END A PREGNANCY ARE USING THEIR FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: its exactly the same human failure. subjugation of a helpless soul in order to avoid hardship. people have not changed since the beginning of time....we practice evil and hate to be called on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
What about subjugation of the helpless and defenseless in the name of profit? Bet you don't have a problem with that. Unions? Minimum wage? Child Labor laws? FMLA leave? Bet you're not too keen on damn government regulations that protect the weak from the rapaciousness of the wealthy.

Again, white males abusing and raping society and the earth = no problem.
Women with the God-given power over life and death = serious problem.

more smokescreens. each issue has it's own moral angle . abortion is really bad.

LOL. Abortion is more badder. Well that's a great argument. Talk about drawing arbitrary lines.

Anonymous wrote: its exactly the same human failure. subjugation of a helpless soul in order to avoid hardship. people have not changed since the beginning of time....we practice evil and hate to be called on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
What about subjugation of the helpless and defenseless in the name of profit? Bet you don't have a problem with that. Unions? Minimum wage? Child Labor laws? FMLA leave? Bet you're not too keen on damn government regulations that protect the weak from the rapaciousness of the wealthy.

Again, white males abusing and raping society and the earth = no problem.
Women with the God-given power over life and death = serious problem.

more smokescreens. each issue has it's own moral angle . abortion is really bad.

its exactly the same human failure. subjugation of a helpless soul in order to avoid hardship. people have not changed since the beginning of time....we practice evil and hate to be called on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
What about subjugation of the helpless and defenseless in the name of profit? Bet you don't have a problem with that. Unions? Minimum wage? Child Labor laws? FMLA leave? Bet you're not too keen on damn government regulations that protect the weak from the rapaciousness of the wealthy.

Again, white males abusing and raping society and the earth = no problem.
Women with the God-given power over life and death = serious problem.

Some of us are quite theological and yet do not agree with your conclusion that abortion is absolutely wrong.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/starhawk/2008/09/abortion_and_the_goddess.html