Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 14:17     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:22:52 - If I were a feminist, I'd tell you to be quiet and talk to me when you get a job that doesn't consist of leeching off of your husband. But since I am not a feminist, I'll accept that you have a right to your opinions, no matter how short-sighted they are.
You don't understand feminism if that's what you think. I am a feminist and I support your right to choose how you want to raise your family.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 13:43     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Please, learn to think critically.


I am going to ask you to take your own advice. It's clear you don't understand any of what I am saying, and I can't really expect you to because we are on different levels.
That's fine.

It's great that women can vote, have bank accounts, and whatever else. It's not so great that motherhood isn't valued, things that are naturally feminine are seen as weak, women and men are seen as the SAME when they are not (equal does not mean the same), women who want to focus on their husbands and children are seen as worthless, women are taught that they have choices but when you dig down deep only one choice is seen as acceptable...and on and on and on.

I would be for feminism if it was about empowering women, but it's really about oppression. I would support feminism if it's goal was to make sure that women are respected, just as men are- but that's not the goal. Feminism is really about erasing everything as feminine, grabbing onto what is masculine, and labeling it as "gender neutral".

There's much more to it than that, but you aren't ready to hear it, and I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything.



Oh, hello! Here I am again, 22:52! Did you see the bitchy response I got from my original post? That was NOT a feminist who said that I am "leeching" off my husband, as well as short sighted (which I take to mean she thinks I'm not saving for retirement, but who knows. It's an unclear insult). I'm a feminist. I'm staying home to care for my child. You really needn't believe the conservative news media when it tries to tell you that feminists are shrill, harpies out to feminize men and masculinize the ladies.

You really, really need to read the book I recommended. Feminism is about equal rights for men and women, always has been.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 13:36     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:22:52 - If I were a feminist, I'd tell you to be quiet and talk to me when you get a job that doesn't consist of leeching off of your husband. But since I am not a feminist, I'll accept that you have a right to your opinions, no matter how short-sighted they are.


22:52 here

Oh, sweetums, bless your angry little heart. It isn't leeching, and you can't bait me that easily. Thanks, though, and have a lovely day!
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 12:44     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
It's great that women can vote, have bank accounts, and whatever else. It's not so great that motherhood isn't valued, things that are naturally feminine are seen as weak, women and men are seen as the SAME when they are not (equal does not mean the same), women who want to focus on their husbands and children are seen as worthless, women are taught that they have choices but when you dig down deep only one choice is seen as acceptable...and on and on and on.

I would be for feminism if it was about empowering women, but it's really about oppression. I would support feminism if it's goal was to make sure that women are respected, just as men are- but that's not the goal. Feminism is really about erasing everything as feminine, grabbing onto what is masculine, and labeling it as "gender neutral".


Some of the most prominent feminists, like Jane Addams, valued the care of children and mothers. The people who are fighting for paid maternity leave, so that mothers can bond with the babies, are feminists. Feminists also support funding of prenatal care for pregnant women, birth control for women. How are these not valuing motherhood?

Also, some things that we now accept as "gender neutral"--like attending college and playing sports and voting--would you say that feminists should not have fought for these rights because they would have erased differences between men and women?!?
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 12:39     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Please, learn to think critically.


I am going to ask you to take your own advice. It's clear you don't understand any of what I am saying, and I can't really expect you to because we are on different levels.
That's fine.

It's great that women can vote, have bank accounts, and whatever else. It's not so great that motherhood isn't valued, things that are naturally feminine are seen as weak, women and men are seen as the SAME when they are not (equal does not mean the same), women who want to focus on their husbands and children are seen as worthless, women are taught that they have choices but when you dig down deep only one choice is seen as acceptable...and on and on and on.

I would be for feminism if it was about empowering women, but it's really about oppression. I would support feminism if it's goal was to make sure that women are respected, just as men are- but that's not the goal. Feminism is really about erasing everything as feminine, grabbing onto what is masculine, and labeling it as "gender neutral".

There's much more to it than that, but you aren't ready to hear it, and I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything.



Who knew that Dr. Laura posted on DCUM?
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 12:36     Subject: Re:Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
"Feminism is really about erasing everything as feminine, grabbing onto what is masculine, and labeling it as "gender neutral". "

Nope. Parenting is much more gender neutral than one might think. My mother had the "right" to focus on her family in the 1960s but very little ability to do anything other than be a SAHM or a domestic. Progress is having many more lifestyle and career options. And you should realize that there's not a "feminine" way to be an investment banker or lawyer - professions ARE gender neutral.

Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 12:33     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Please, learn to think critically.


I am going to ask you to take your own advice. It's clear you don't understand any of what I am saying, and I can't really expect you to because we are on different levels.
That's fine.

It's great that women can vote, have bank accounts, and whatever else. It's not so great that motherhood isn't valued, things that are naturally feminine are seen as weak, women and men are seen as the SAME when they are not (equal does not mean the same), women who want to focus on their husbands and children are seen as worthless, women are taught that they have choices but when you dig down deep only one choice is seen as acceptable...and on and on and on.

I would be for feminism if it was about empowering women, but it's really about oppression. I would support feminism if it's goal was to make sure that women are respected, just as men are- but that's not the goal. Feminism is really about erasing everything as feminine, grabbing onto what is masculine, and labeling it as "gender neutral".

There's much more to it than that, but you aren't ready to hear it, and I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything.





Oh dear, where do we begin? Please read up on feminism(s). I think you'll be quite surprised. Quite a bit has changed in feminist/womanist/mujerista movements since you were in college:

Among the rights that feminists for that are not trying to "erase everything" that is "feminine":

1) Maternity leave for working women
2) Insurance coverage for birth control
3) Recognizing rape and sexual violence against women

I don't know of any feminist who doesn't value the care of children.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 12:24     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Please, learn to think critically.


I am going to ask you to take your own advice. It's clear you don't understand any of what I am saying, and I can't really expect you to because we are on different levels.
That's fine.

It's great that women can vote, have bank accounts, and whatever else. It's not so great that motherhood isn't valued, things that are naturally feminine are seen as weak, women and men are seen as the SAME when they are not (equal does not mean the same), women who want to focus on their husbands and children are seen as worthless, women are taught that they have choices but when you dig down deep only one choice is seen as acceptable...and on and on and on.

I would be for feminism if it was about empowering women, but it's really about oppression. I would support feminism if it's goal was to make sure that women are respected, just as men are- but that's not the goal. Feminism is really about erasing everything as feminine, grabbing onto what is masculine, and labeling it as "gender neutral".

There's much more to it than that, but you aren't ready to hear it, and I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything.

Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 12:18     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I work with men who clearly have a dim view of working women with children and, yes, they all have stay at home wives.


I completely understand. As a female supervisor, I am so sick of hearing about other women"s problems at home. You were hired to do a job, not bitch and moan about your personal problems. Until you understand thid, you will always have this problem.


These types of posts really piss me off. You assume that (1) we (working moms) are bitching about our personal problems and (2) this is the reason - i.e., that we aren't putting in the time/sacrifices similar to our male colleagues with SAHMs - we are not progressing as far up the ladder as are male colleagues with SAH wives.

No. Sorry. And that isn't what the article says either. Men in traditional marriages are simply less inclined to promote a working mom (or really any woman) over their male colleagues. It is sexism - pure and simple. Women aren't being given the same opportunities (mentoring, client relationships, professional development, networking) as their male colleagues b/c many of these opportunities are contolled by older men in traditional marriages who simply prefer to spend their time/efforts with men like themselves.

It isn't b/c we don't work as hard or bitch and complain.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 12:01     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:22:52 - If I were a feminist, I'd tell you to be quiet and talk to me when you get a job that doesn't consist of leeching off of your husband. But since I am not a feminist, I'll accept that you have a right to your opinions, no matter how short-sighted they are.


You may not consider yourself a "feminist," but which of the following rights have you taken advantage of:

1) A woman's right to vote
2) A woman's right to go to college and graduate school
3) A girl's and woman's right to play sports in school
4) A woman's right to drive
5) A women's right to buy propoerty

?????


*Sigh* I forgot how simple minded people are.

Yes, changes in society needed to be made. Did anyone deny that? That doesn't mean that feminism has women's best interests in mind. Yes, rah, rah for the progress, but now you are right back where you started with trying to control women....just from the opposite side of the spectrum.

The only women who get a pass are those who fit what you feel a woman should be. That doesn't make you any different than those who lump all women in the same category.

Come on highly educated women with advanced degrees...this is really not that difficult of a concept; especially if you are a reader of this forum.



Please, learn to think critically. You are the one who is thinking in far, far too simplistic terms. How do you think progress is made? And no, you are most definitely not right back where you started with trying to control women. If you have ever been part of the political process or even taken a history course (and passed), you must understand that it is much, much more difficult to make change unless you have an official voice, like the vote. Do you comprehend how much more power women have now that they have the right to own property in their own name? To open a banking account that is not controlled by her father, brother, or husband?

Pray tell, how is a woman who now possesses an officially recognized voice in her own society right back where she started?
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 11:42     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:Where are the fathers? As someone said more than once, nothing will change until we are all responsible and caring toward the children.


bingo!

I've posted this many times on different threads.

crickets chirping

Take your pick - http://www.soundboard.com/sb/crickets_sounds_audio.aspx
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 11:35     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:22:52 - If I were a feminist, I'd tell you to be quiet and talk to me when you get a job that doesn't consist of leeching off of your husband. But since I am not a feminist, I'll accept that you have a right to your opinions, no matter how short-sighted they are.


You may not consider yourself a "feminist," but which of the following rights have you taken advantage of:

1) A woman's right to vote
2) A woman's right to go to college and graduate school
3) A girl's and woman's right to play sports in school
4) A woman's right to drive
5) A women's right to buy propoerty

?????


*Sigh* I forgot how simple minded people are.

Yes, changes in society needed to be made. Did anyone deny that? That doesn't mean that feminism has women's best interests in mind. Yes, rah, rah for the progress, but now you are right back where you started with trying to control women....just from the opposite side of the spectrum.

The only women who get a pass are those who fit what you feel a woman should be. That doesn't make you any different than those who lump all women in the same category.

Come on highly educated women with advanced degrees...this is really not that difficult of a concept; especially if you are a reader of this forum.

Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 10:09     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
You may not consider yourself a "feminist," but which of the following rights have you taken advantage of:

1) A woman's right to vote
2) A woman's right to go to college and graduate school
3) A girl's and woman's right to play sports in school
4) A woman's right to drive
5) A women's right to buy propoerty

?????


Thank you for this.
Not to mention that if your husband decided to leave you, you'd have nothing to your name, not even your children, because in a male-dominated society, dad takes the kids.
Who are these women who criticize the feminist movement? Would you rather live in a country where you can't drive, have a bank account, or testify against a man, because you'd only half human under the law?
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 08:35     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:22:52 - If I were a feminist, I'd tell you to be quiet and talk to me when you get a job that doesn't consist of leeching off of your husband. But since I am not a feminist, I'll accept that you have a right to your opinions, no matter how short-sighted they are.


You may not consider yourself a "feminist," but which of the following rights have you taken advantage of:

1) A woman's right to vote
2) A woman's right to go to college and graduate school
3) A girl's and woman's right to play sports in school
4) A woman's right to drive
5) A women's right to buy propoerty

?????


And I would add, the miraculous and relatively new right we posess, for the moment, to decide whether and when we will bear children.
Anonymous
Post 06/08/2012 08:31     Subject: Marriage Structure and Resistance to the Gender Revolution in the Workplace
Anonymous wrote:22:52 - If I were a feminist, I'd tell you to be quiet and talk to me when you get a job that doesn't consist of leeching off of your husband. But since I am not a feminist, I'll accept that you have a right to your opinions, no matter how short-sighted they are.


You may not consider yourself a "feminist," but which of the following rights have you taken advantage of:

1) A woman's right to vote
2) A woman's right to go to college and graduate school
3) A girl's and woman's right to play sports in school
4) A woman's right to drive
5) A women's right to buy propoerty

?????