Where. I . Cannot. Hear. Him.

And I am the one who leaves the room to sleep in the basement?????

Snoring

Anonymous wrote:"Know your place" poster here.

Men aren't off the hook either. I just focused mostly on women because they have a lot of power to control the tone of a relationship, but they don't realize it. The point was not to degrade women, as I think women are Queens. The point was to encourage women to consider their attitudes.

And yes, men and women are different, and need different things. There is no back tracking. I stand by every statement I made.

Women- encourage your husbands.
Men- love your wives.

I do not however stand by statements that I did not make. If you take something, turn your brain off, and run with it- don't try and tell me that it's what I said, when I did not.

But if you want to change to men, there are a lot of lazy boy-men who want their wives to do everything. You want her to bring in income, take care of most of the household duties, take care of any emergencies that pop up, while you sit around on your lazy ass and
watch TV or play video games because you need a break. You think your paycheck exempts you from having to put in any effort into your home life. You are not a man. You are a boy. Grow up.

If your wife stays at home, you still have to help too. Sorry. You get time off from work, so should she. Be a man, not a whiny little boy.

Cheaters, abusers, all that...we don't even need to go there. But some of you men need to step up and be men instead of little boys who need your wife/momma to do everything for you so you can fish, high-five your buddies, and play Wii.

But at the same time, women, you need to allow men some room to be involved. If you are going to criticize everything he does (he doesn't feed the kids right, I don't like how he sweeps, he doesn't clean properly, I pay the bills this way, not that way...) well
then how can you expect him to want to be involved?

You have a problem with HIS DECISIONS and you want to make all of them yourself while at the same time complaining that all he does is work and nothing else.

Change your attitude.

I notice you didn't answer any of these questions. Enough with the platitudes - how about some specifics?

"What decisions should men make? What decisions should women make? Is it first-come, first served, or are there clear distinctions in their areas of responsibility? Is there any overlap?

"

Anonymous wrote:

I dated a man on the brink of becoming Islamic fundamentalist and he too referred to women at "Queens". Um, no, they were "property" he really had the two terms confused. I thank GOD that that relationship went nowhere...I'd probably be stuck in some god forsaken mud hut in Pakistan right now if I had been stupid enough to marry him or I'd be dead due to insolence. I shudder to think....

Ok.....

I once had a hamster named Nick.

Anonymous wrote:So, I think this is an interesting topic. What are the elements of a miserable marriage, potentially:

(1) lack of emotional connection/ absense of physical intimacy and communication check (me)
(2) feeling of regret at having married that person + fantasizing about "what ifs" with other people check (me)
(3) relationship based on "power" /competitioin rather than "love"
(4) spouse who brings out the negative in you rather than the positive, and vice versa
(5) spouse who doesn't appreciate your work/accomplishments -- or feels threatened by your accomplishments
(6) solitary spouse without life of their own - happiness on their own -- who is dependent on you for their personal happiness or control check (him) MAJOR problem
(7) feeling trapped in the relationship - whether it be guilt over breaking up family home/fucking up kids by divorcing; or financial inability to leave check (me) guilt/kids

It takes two to tango, and I realize you can't blame one spouse - it is more a general dynamic of the above that has made my marriage miserable in recent years.

I just married for the wrong reasons...I married for security, stability, I married the "nice guy" "old faithful". We have no passion, we never will. I just don't have that chemistry with him. He makes a great friend, but has never been my lover. Critical error that I will live with forever.

Anonymous wrote:"Know your place" poster here.

Men aren't off the hook either. I just focused mostly on women because they have a lot of power to control the tone of a relationship, but they don't realize it. The point was not to degrade women, as I think women are Queens. The point was to encourage women to consider their attitudes.

And yes, men and women are different, and need different things. There is no back tracking. I stand by every statement I made.

Women- encourage your husbands.
Men- love your wives.

I do not however stand by statements that I did not make. If you take something, turn your brain off, and run with it- don't try and tell me that it's what I said, when I did not.

But if you want to change to men, there are a lot of lazy boy-men who want their wives to do everything. You want her to bring in income, take care of most of the household duties, take care of any emergencies that pop up, while you sit around on your lazy ass and
watch TV or play video games because you need a break. You think your paycheck exempts you from having to put in any effort into your home life. You are not a man. You are a boy. Grow up.

If your wife stays at home, you still have to help too. Sorry. You get time off from work, so should she. Be a man, not a whiny little boy.

Cheaters, abusers, all that...we don't even need to go there. But some of you men need to step up and be men instead of little boys who need your wife/momma to do everything for you so you can fish, high-five your buddies, and play Wii.

But at the same time, women, you need to allow men some room to be involved. If you are going to criticize everything he does (he doesn't feed the kids right, I don't like how he sweeps, he doesn't clean properly, I pay the bills this way, not that way...) well
then how can you expect him to want to be involved?

You have a problem with HIS DECISIONS and you want to make all of them yourself while at the same time complaining that all he does is work and nothing else.

Change your attitude.

I dated a man on the brink of becoming Islamic fundamentalist and he too referred to women at "Queens". Um, no, they were "property" he really had the two terms confused. I thank GOD that that relationship went nowhere...I'd probably be stuck in some god forsaken mud hut in Pakistan right now if I had been stupid enough to marry him or I'd be dead due to insolence. I shudder to think....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, I think this is an interesting topic. What are the elements of a miserable marriage, potentially:

(1) lack of emotional connection/ absense of physical intimacy and communication
(2) feeling of regret at having married that person + fantasizing about "what ifs" with other people
(3) relationship based on "power" /competitioin rather than "love"
(4) spouse who brings out the negative in you rather than the positive, and vice versa
(5) spouse who doesn't appreciate your work/accomplishments -- or feels threatened by your accomplishments
(6) solitary spouse without life of their own - happiness on their own -- who is dependent on you for their personal happiness or control
(7) feeling trapped in the relationship - whether it be guilt over breaking up family home/fucking up kids by divorcing; or financial inability to leave

It takes two to tango, and I realize you can't blame one spouse - it is more a general dynamic of the above that has made my marriage miserable in recent years.

Wow. You described my life. We are on the brink of divorce because of these issues right now. And you are right, it is helpful to acknowledge what you have done to contribute to the dynamic.

+1. the only difference is I fantasize about been alone. If I get out of this trap, I will make sure I will never fall in another one in the future. amazing to see that other people are in similar situations, I thought I was the only idiot (the idiot is for me, not for the others)

Anonymous wrote:So, I think this is an interesting topic. What are the elements of a miserable marriage, potentially:

(1) lack of emotional connection/ absense of physical intimacy and communication
(2) feeling of regret at having married that person + fantasizing about "what ifs" with other people
(3) relationship based on "power" /competitioin rather than "love"
(4) spouse who brings out the negative in you rather than the positive, and vice versa
(5) spouse who doesn't appreciate your work/accomplishments -- or feels threatened by your accomplishments
(6) solitary spouse without life of their own - happiness on their own -- who is dependent on you for their personal happiness or control
(7) feeling trapped in the relationship - whether it be guilt over breaking up family home/fucking up kids by divorcing; or financial inability to leave

It takes two to tango, and I realize you can't blame one spouse - it is more a general dynamic of the above that has made my marriage miserable in recent years.

Wow. You described my life. We are on the brink of divorce because of these issues right now. And you are right, it is helpful to acknowledge what you have done to contribute to the dynamic.

"Know your place" poster here.

Men aren't off the hook either. I just focused mostly on women because they have a lot of power to control the tone of a relationship, but they don't realize it. The point was not to degrade women, as I think women are Queens. The point was to encourage women to consider their attitudes.

And yes, men and women are different, and need different things. There is no back tracking. I stand by every statement I made.

Women- encourage your husbands.
Men- love your wives.

I do not however stand by statements that I did not make. If you take something, turn your brain off, and run with it- don't try and tell me that it's what I said, when I did not.

But if you want to change to men, there are a lot of lazy boy-men who want their wives to do everything. You want her to bring in income, take care of most of the household duties, take care of any emergencies that pop up, while you sit around on your lazy ass and
watch TV or play video games because you need a break. You think your paycheck exempts you from having to put in any effort into your home life. You are not a man. You are a boy. Grow up.

If your wife stays at home, you still have to help too. Sorry. You get time off from work, so should she. Be a man, not a whiny little boy.

Cheaters, abusers, all that...we don't even need to go there. But some of you men need to step up and be men instead of little boys who need your wife/momma to do everything for you so you can fish, high-five your buddies, and play Wii.

But at the same time, women, you need to allow men some room to be involved. If you are going to criticize everything he does (he doesn't feed the kids right, I don't like how he sweeps, he doesn't clean properly, I pay the bills this way, not that way...) well
then how can you expect him to want to be involved?

You have a problem with HIS DECISIONS and you want to make all of them yourself while at the same time complaining that all he does is work and nothing else.

Change your attitude.

THe concept of someone "learning their place" is so inherently ridiculous - I don't even know where to begin. Pu-lease. This sounds like a person who is more into control than love in a relationship. Messed up. Correct me if I'm wrong, original poster of the "learning their place" remark. You seem to be more focused about hte power to make decisions, etc., autonomously or for someone else -- So, do you feel frequently attacked by your spouse? Do you feel like an assertive wife is a threat to a man? Does it diminish your sense of control? Do you secretly wish you were born 80 years ago, before women had the power to vote/etc? LOL.

18:40 from page 1 here. I personally think that there are a few men in the world who also need to "learn their place", be supportive and kind to their wives, discuss decisions that effect the family together, stay faithful, etc.. (not to say that there aren't women who are equally guilty of these things)

I also think that if a man is going to tell women to that they need to know their place, that he'd damn well better have ALL of the assets to back that up.

So tell me, do you make a good amount of money? Are you kind and supportive? If you want to make decisions, are you discussing them with your wife (I seriously wonder, actually, are you even married?)? Do you listen to what she has to say and value her input? Help around the house? Are you a good lover? A good father? Faithful?

Answer these questions for me, and I MIGHT possibly start to take you a little more seriously.

You have a problem with a wife being confident in her husbands choices? Or is that your faux feminist zest speaking before you have had a chance to think clearly? So wives should not be confident in their husbands choices? They should second guess everything, and criticize him to the core?

Yes, a man should be able to make decisions, and his wife should have confidence in him. I am sorry you have a problem with that. Women should be able to make decisions as well. Does that bother you, or is it just when I say that men should be able to?

Are you inserting an "all" or "every" in my statements when those words are not there? Or does the thought of a man being able to decide anything for himself just seem utterly absurd to you?

Please dispense with your recently discovered faux evenhandedness. You wrote this:

A wife's role is not to compete with her husband, boss him around, complain about everything, run over him, etc. Instead she should learn the art of femininity. It's not a bad thing to be supportive, encouraging, and kind. In fact, you'll get more of what you want if you learn how to properly treat your husband. (Aside from the exceptions I mentioned before). Life will be easier for you if you learn where your power lies and how to use it...or you can keep doing what you are doing and you will be forever complaining about your husband.

Men too, have a place or a role to play. It's not to ignore their wives, belittle them, sit on the couch and play games all day, etc. Instead they need to learn how to love their wives, truly love them and make it known. She should feel like a Queen. She should feel safe with you, confident that you can make the right choices, loved, and protected.

No matter how you try to backtrack now, it's clear that you believe men are the primary decisionmakers, head of the household, all that crap. (And, if women are so empowered, how come you didn't include an admonition that a man shouldn't second-guess his wife?) But, I'm willing to admit it if I'm wrong. So, convince me. What decisions should men make? What decisions should women make? Is it first-come, first served, or are there clear distinctions in their areas of responsibility? Is there any overlap?

And by the way, I'm a man. So please don't feel like I don't know my place. It's not just women who think you're absurd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lest you think that it's only "contentious women" who think you're a horse's ass, I'm a man (I dare say more of a man than you), and you're a backwards idiot who has watched too many episodes of Mad Men. I'd be bored to tears with the kind of simpering fool who is "allows me to make the right decision." Thank god my wife (a SAHM, by the way) isn't like that.

As for "it's not going to change biology," I was unaware that certain biology or plumbing was required to make the "right decisions." In fact, in my experience, decisions made by listening to a penis are invariably wrong, and often catastrophic.

This is like the telephone game, only it shouldn't be because the words are right on the screen.

I did not say that women should be fools who let men decide on everything. An over emotional person, took a portion of a statement, threw out all logic, and ran with it.

Please stop derailing the discussion. If you are going to comment on what I said, then comment on what I actually said.

You said, "She should feel safe with you, confident that you can make the right choices, loved, and protected." So does that mean the husband makes the decisions, or not? If not, to what choices are you referring? And no, you did not say women should be fools. I think, however, that a woman who would accept, much less relish, a relationship of the type you describe WOULD be a simpering fool.

You have a problem with a wife being confident in her husbands choices? Or is that your faux feminist zest speaking before you have had a chance to think clearly? So wives should not be confident in their husbands choices? They should second guess everything, and criticize him to the core?

Yes, a man should be able to make decisions, and his wife should have confidence in him. I am sorry you have a problem with that. Women should be able to make decisions as well. Does that bother you, or is it just when I say that men should be able to?

Are you inserting an "all" or "every" in my statements when those words are not there? Or does the thought of a man being able to decide anything for himself just seem utterly absurd to you?

Unequal sexual experience.

My ex had lots more experience than I, but yet would not help me become more experienced. He would not tell me what to do to get him off, or help him be pleasured...I had to "research" and try stuff.

Unequal sexual desire.

His was high, mine was low. Always demanding it made it a chore. High demands on the marriage/family (two young kids, he worked and couldn't be bothered with any housework or help with the kids) was draining and I had no energy or libido...and he blamed me for not being attracted to him and that just MADE me want to do him...right.

Financial problems.

Caused stress and made everyday a living hell.