Anonymous
05/22/2012 19:20
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:I favor kids being academically prepared to go to the next grade. At the junior high level it's hard to begin to demand this.
Yeah, so let's not try.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 19:17
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
I favor kids being academically prepared to go to the next grade. At the junior high level it's hard to begin to demand this.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 18:50
Subject: Re:Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What's worse? Being "humiliated" by the wake-up call of possibly having to repeat a grade because a school like Basis holds you to an expectation of actually learning the material (and, that is after all why you are in school in the first place - to learn the material), or suffering the far greater, life-long humiliation that your school didn't care if you learned the material, and just socially promoted you from grade to grade, ultimately flinging you out into the adult world barely functional, barely able to read, add or subtract, and accordingly unprepared and unable to ever get a decent-paying job?
It's frankly mind-boggling that anyone with a bonafide interest in DC's educational would ever defend social promotion. Those who do have in effect already given up on the children's education and future.
The defense of social promotion is that research says that retention is worse. What students need is identification of the need for intervention and intensive remediation. Like every other public school, Basis will be required to provide that.
Again, the point of school is LEARNING.
Without learning, all you have is a glorified daycare and the entire point of schooling has been missed.
You aren't really making a compelling argument for schools here, by suggesting that we need to have social promotion, you are basically just suggesting that instead of schools we should have daycares.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 16:45
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
PP. You say that withholding ELL services is illegal.
What do you do when the school claims ELL services are being provided in a total inclusion setting?
This happend to us in DCPS, only months after my child started learning English when the new principal decided that ELL teachers should not do any pull outs except if the student came with absolutely no English (NEP). The teacher came to me and she wanted to do pull outs but she was categorically told not to do so.
What do you do when the school claims ELL services are being provided in a total inclusion setting?
This happend to us in DCPS, only months after my child started learning English when the new principal decided that ELL teachers should not do any pull outs except if the student came with absolutely no English (NEP). The teacher came to me and she wanted to do pull outs but she was categorically told not to do so.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 16:23
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote: This is very true in our case. I have a child who has not learned ANY NEW MATH CONCEPTS in his current charter these past 2 years, while no one has worked on improving his English skills. He is an English learner who is performing 2 years below grade level in English but the school has decided not to have him meet with the ELL teacher because he tests well in the DC CAS and ANET. Numerous meetings with admin and teachers have not resulted into anything tangible except his teachers complaining that he has to learn to be an independent learner.
So these are your reasons to try an new charter?! Maybe it's time to recognize that, with few exceptions, charters are doing well on tests not because they teach better but because they manage to attract better students (so long as they don't keep school hopping anyway). And withholding ELL services from an ELL student is illegal. Before squandering more years in disappointment and then move, sounds like it might be time for you to revisit DCPS. Look beyond the test scores and actually visit and see what's happening in the classroom. Ask questions about how learning is differentiated and how students on both ends of the spectrum are being challenged. Certainly not all will make the cut but I bet you'd find a great many where your child would have been more challenged and better served than that in the last two years.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 15:43
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
[quote It's probably not humiliating at an entry year when half the kids are having to repeat.
. True, especially if they are in their own separate group. Is that what KIPP does?
Anonymous
05/22/2012 14:38
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
"The lowest math that will be giving is saxon 8/7. I was also informed that the students are allowed to move up during the school lyear. So you may start in Saxon 8/7 math, but you can move up to Pre-Algebra or Algebra I."
I would love this for my kid. He's in 2nd grade and I'd love for him to be able to test into 4th grade math (and I think he would).
It sounds very socially disruptive to have a bunch of kids leaving the school every year. I've heard that KIPP makes a lot of kids coming from other schools repeat 5th grade. It's probably not humiliating at an entry year when half the kids are having to repeat.
I would love this for my kid. He's in 2nd grade and I'd love for him to be able to test into 4th grade math (and I think he would).
It sounds very socially disruptive to have a bunch of kids leaving the school every year. I've heard that KIPP makes a lot of kids coming from other schools repeat 5th grade. It's probably not humiliating at an entry year when half the kids are having to repeat.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 14:17
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can a child enroll into Basis if they have failed grades at other schools?
Of course! The law does not allow for selective admissions!
However, if he wants a spot in the 7th grade or higher, he will have to pass a placement exam. There is no placement exam for 5th and 6th.
(I think the placement exam requirement is waived for the first year the school is in operation, so next year's 7th and 8th graders might not have to test in to those grades.)
How do you pass a PLACEMENT EXAM? It is a placement exam, not an admission exam! All students will take the placement exam.
You correctly answer the minimum number of questions required for placement in the grade you would like to enter.
If you take a placement exam with the intention of being placed in the 7th grade and you are placed in the 7th grade, you have passed the placement exam. If you are placed in the 6th grade you have essentially failed the placement exam. Is this idea so controversial?
Yes, it is if you don't create an alternate track for the children who are unprepared.
The 6th grade state average for math proficiency is 50% and a LOT of those kids will be at Basis. Those are students who aren't even doing 6th grade math. Getting them up to speed on 7th & 8th grade math is going to be an uphill climb, to say the least. Retain, retain, retain isn't productive - it will not help them to succeed. You have to take them through the material, just more slowly. Some of them probably have Special Needs diagnosis - you can't just fail those kids, you have to create an individualized education plan. This is not a nice accommodation - it's the actual law.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 14:01
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
The lowest math that will be giving is saxon 8/7. I was also informed that the students are allowed to move up during the school lyear. So you may start in Saxon 8/7 math, but you can move up to Pre-Algebra or Algebra I.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can a child enroll into Basis if they have failed grades at other schools?
Of course! The law does not allow for selective admissions!
However, if he wants a spot in the 7th grade or higher, he will have to pass a placement exam. There is no placement exam for 5th and 6th.
(I think the placement exam requirement is waived for the first year the school is in operation, so next year's 7th and 8th graders might not have to test in to those grades.)
How do you pass a PLACEMENT EXAM? It is a placement exam, not an admission exam! All students will take the placement exam.
You correctly answer the minimum number of questions required for placement in the grade you would like to enter.
If you take a placement exam with the intention of being placed in the 7th grade and you are placed in the 7th grade, you have passed the placement exam. If you are placed in the 6th grade you have essentially failed the placement exam. Is this idea so controversial?
Anonymous
05/22/2012 12:18
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can a child enroll into Basis if they have failed grades at other schools?
Of course! The law does not allow for selective admissions!
However, if he wants a spot in the 7th grade or higher, he will have to pass a placement exam. There is no placement exam for 5th and 6th.
(I think the placement exam requirement is waived for the first year the school is in operation, so next year's 7th and 8th graders might not have to test in to those grades.)
How do you pass a PLACEMENT EXAM? It is a placement exam, not an admission exam! All students will take the placement exam.
You correctly answer the minimum number of questions required for placement in the grade you would like to enter.
If you take a placement exam with the intention of being placed in the 7th grade and you are placed in the 7th grade, you have passed the placement exam. If you are placed in the 6th grade you have essentially failed the placement exam. Is this idea so controversial?
Anonymous
05/22/2012 11:22
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can a child enroll into Basis if they have failed grades at other schools?
Of course! The law does not allow for selective admissions!
However, if he wants a spot in the 7th grade or higher, he will have to pass a placement exam. There is no placement exam for 5th and 6th.
(I think the placement exam requirement is waived for the first year the school is in operation, so next year's 7th and 8th graders might not have to test in to those grades.)
How do you pass a PLACEMENT EXAM? It is a placement exam, not an admission exam! All students will take the placement exam.
Well, if you do not like where you are placed on the exam you may feel as if you have "flunked" the exam.
I am sure the children don't get the exam results. You are really grasping for straws now!
I am actually not anti-BASIS at all, I am looking to see how it plays out and I support schools with high standards and sufficient challenge for academically advanced kids.
However, even if you do not see the scores, if it is a placement exam you are going to know where you are placed, no? If you think you are ready for 7th grade but on the BASIS exam you place as ready for 6th do you really think the kid will not notice?
Anonymous
05/22/2012 11:08
Subject: Re:Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the post. My understanding is if a child fails a class, they will repeat that class over again. I feel there is nothing wrong with that. If you fail a college class, don't you have to take it again?
Exactly
In college there is no problem-- but what will happen iF lots of kids get held back? Will basis have a separate class for them? Or will the classes at basis sqEw older? So that average age kids are out numbered by older kids?
Seems like an unlikely scenario, PP. I could see a family allowing a child to repeat one year at BASIS, if the child came from an underperforming school and it appeared that the additional year would enable the child to get back on track. However, allowing the child to repeat the same grade multiple times or repeat multiple grades once seems very unlikely.
Eventually, the family will come to the realization that failing repeatedly at BASIS is worse than attending their IB middle school -- even if the IB middle school is underperforming.
Just because they're not ready to do Algebra in 7th grade doesn't mean they're not performing at Basic level according to the DC SOLs. Basis can't hold them back a grade for that. Retention doesn't work, and the obligation is to meet the student at his (her) level. If too many students aren't succeeding, the school shouldn't be receiving taxpayer dollars.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 10:56
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can a child enroll into Basis if they have failed grades at other schools?
Of course! The law does not allow for selective admissions!
However, if he wants a spot in the 7th grade or higher, he will have to pass a placement exam. There is no placement exam for 5th and 6th.
(I think the placement exam requirement is waived for the first year the school is in operation, so next year's 7th and 8th graders might not have to test in to those grades.)
How do you pass a PLACEMENT EXAM? It is a placement exam, not an admission exam! All students will take the placement exam.
Well, if you do not like where you are placed on the exam you may feel as if you have "flunked" the exam.
I am sure the children don't get the exam results. You are really grasping for straws now!
Anonymous
05/22/2012 10:48
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Can a child enroll into Basis if they have failed grades at other schools?
Of course! The law does not allow for selective admissions!
However, if he wants a spot in the 7th grade or higher, he will have to pass a placement exam. There is no placement exam for 5th and 6th.
(I think the placement exam requirement is waived for the first year the school is in operation, so next year's 7th and 8th graders might not have to test in to those grades.)
How do you pass a PLACEMENT EXAM? It is a placement exam, not an admission exam! All students will take the placement exam.
Well, if you do not like where you are placed on the exam you may feel as if you have "flunked" the exam.
Anonymous
05/22/2012 10:45
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:But what if a kid is super gifted in some subjects but really struggling in another? Would BASIS hold back a child in one subject, but allow them to advance and stay with their peers in the other subjects?
This is very true in our case. I have a child who has not learned ANY NEW MATH CONCEPTS in his current charter these past 2 years, while no one has worked on improving his English skills. He is an English learner who is performing 2 years below grade level in English but the school has decided not to have him meet with the ELL teacher beacause he tests well in the DC CAS and ANET. Numerous meetings with admin and teachers have not resulted into anything tangible except his teachers complaining that he has to learn to be an independent learner.
He started tutoring in February, first 2 hours then 3 hours per week. During this short period he has learned more English than during the 2 years at his coveted charter where everything is so hazy and teachers do not seem to know
If Basis teachers have well -planned lessons and believe in cooperation with parents, struggling students will put in the necesary hours and do well. It happens all the time in many developing countries who have nothing except outdated books. Teachers somehow manage to get most if not all students ready for college.