Anonymous
05/11/2012 10:07
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You want to quarrel with everything and anything. If you think religion is the problem, then I wonder how you are going to fix it without changing what is spoken from the pulpit. You can't have it both ways. If the ministers are spreading the hate, they need to spread the tolerance.Anonymous wrote:"The community needs to be led"
How condescending.
Are you expecting me to apologize to you for "quarreling" with you because I find it distasteful that you feel the "black community" needs to be led?
Here's a hint: there's not a monolithic black community, just like there's not a monolithic white community. We don't have a leader, and honestly, the prevalent homophobia isn't going to end or even lessen much because Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton says so. Just like the young white men who throw around the word "fag" like it's nothing aren't going to be very influenced by a "white community leader."
I didn't say we have a single leader. Don't be obtuse. If you want to act all sensitive, save it for some white liberal who will buy it.
Who leads you? Who is your leader?
Anonymous
05/11/2012 10:03
Subject: Re:Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:@19:50-
quote]
I told you which data I preferred and I also said that sticking with the data you accept is still bad. Not sure why that point keeps eluding you.
I know what the solution is in the black community. Shockingly, it is that black leaders need to go on the record in support of gay marriage - both secular leaders and the ministers. The community needs to be led, and that is part of what Obama is doing. It's also what Sharpton and Jackson have done. But right now there are too few. I don't have to take responsibility for every ethnic group. I'll stick with what I know. I also know that religion is not the only important factor regarding black opinions on gay marriage. You can google black gay support groups and see for yourself. Or read "The Greatest Taboo: Homosexuality in Black Communities" by Delroy Constantine-Simms and Skip Gates, where a few essays in particular will go a long way in this discussion. Or read something by bell hooks or Eric Brandt. There are other issues such as the role of masculinity in the black community and preservation of the black family unit that drive the problem in addition to what is preached from the pulpit. And because of that, yes I think it is important to address racism in the black community as a separate thing and not pretend this is just religion. The fact is that these authors, who live in the middle of the problem, are treating it as a black social issue of which religion is one component.
So if you want to counter the O'Reilly's of the world with a state and a one liner like "it's a religion thing", go ahead. Within the black community, the reality is much more involved.
Would you like us to wear our collars and chains as well. Sheesh.
Anonymous
05/11/2012 10:00
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The premise of this thread "black people will do ______ " is so stupid and typical of all the DCUM transplants on this site who are always saying "white people ____ but black people ____ ."
Please stop. It's insensitive
(unless you are a black person making fun of white people, then it's funny - yes, brad or chad, the double standard works in this case).
Sincerely,
A white person from the DC area. and a republican (eat it!)
Why did DC Council not let the gay marriage bill go to referendum? Why, because it had no chance and it has no chance in MD either unless O'Malley and pushes it through the state legislator. Don't believe me, look at the demographics of North Carolina...there's your proof. And quite trying to BS everyone, there are a lot of religious black folks that feel very strongly about this issue and they vote.
The last time I checked, the Pope was a white man from Germany leading a lot of white Catholics to oppose gay marraige. The last time I checked, there were very few Blacks practicing the Mormon religion, yet the Mormons spent millions opposing gay marraige. The last time I checked, all the evangelicals that the Republican party pander to are, "say it with me", WHITE. So, why do you think it is only Black folks opposing gay marraige. You need to check yourself. If I already did not believe in equality of marraige and was on the fence about the matter, you would definitely turn me away from any support.
Therein lies the solution - it's religious people who oppose gay marriage or civil unions or whatever they oppose.
Anonymous
05/11/2012 09:56
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The premise of this thread "black people will do ______ " is so stupid and typical of all the DCUM transplants on this site who are always saying "white people ____ but black people ____ ."
Please stop. It's insensitive
(unless you are a black person making fun of white people, then it's funny - yes, brad or chad, the double standard works in this case).
Sincerely,
A white person from the DC area. and a republican (eat it!)
Why did DC Council not let the gay marriage bill go to referendum? Why, because it had no chance and it has no chance in MD either unless O'Malley and pushes it through the state legislator. Don't believe me, look at the demographics of North Carolina...there's your proof. And quite trying to BS everyone, there are a lot of religious black folks that feel very strongly about this issue and they vote.
Ok, you are a racist Biatch. You think all Blacks are homophobes. I think you in particular are a racist with a big sheet hanging in your closet with holes cut out for eyes and mouth. I bet Billie Holliday's song "Strange Fruit" bring a smile to your face.
Anonymous
05/11/2012 00:32
Subject: Re:Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:http://www.npr.org/2011/03/04/134257733/the-root-the-misjudged-black-vote-on-gay-marriage
This just repeats the same study. I posted the link to the actual paper and no one has seen fit to comment on anything in it. I guess they feel it's easier to let the reporters tell them what it means.
The study by Egan and Sherill that I posted at 12:32 on the first page?
Anonymous
05/11/2012 00:24
Subject: Re:Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:http://www.npr.org/2011/03/04/134257733/the-root-the-misjudged-black-vote-on-gay-marriage
This just repeats the same study. I posted the link to the actual paper and no one has seen fit to comment on anything in it. I guess they feel it's easier to let the reporters tell them what it means.
Anonymous
05/11/2012 00:16
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You want to quarrel with everything and anything. If you think religion is the problem, then I wonder how you are going to fix it without changing what is spoken from the pulpit. You can't have it both ways. If the ministers are spreading the hate, they need to spread the tolerance.Anonymous wrote:"The community needs to be led"
How condescending.
Are you expecting me to apologize to you for "quarreling" with you because I find it distasteful that you feel the "black community" needs to be led?
Here's a hint: there's not a monolithic black community, just like there's not a monolithic white community. We don't have a leader, and honestly, the prevalent homophobia isn't going to end or even lessen much because Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton says so. Just like the young white men who throw around the word "fag" like it's nothing aren't going to be very influenced by a "white community leader."
I didn't say we have a single leader. Don't be obtuse. If you want to act all sensitive, save it for some white liberal who will buy it.
Anonymous
05/10/2012 23:50
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:You want to quarrel with everything and anything. If you think religion is the problem, then I wonder how you are going to fix it without changing what is spoken from the pulpit. You can't have it both ways. If the ministers are spreading the hate, they need to spread the tolerance.Anonymous wrote:"The community needs to be led"
How condescending.
Are you expecting me to apologize to you for "quarreling" with you because I find it distasteful that you feel the "black community" needs to be led?
Here's a hint: there's not a monolithic black community, just like there's not a monolithic white community. We don't have a leader, and honestly, the prevalent homophobia isn't going to end or even lessen much because Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton says so. Just like the young white men who throw around the word "fag" like it's nothing aren't going to be very influenced by a "white community leader."
Anonymous
05/10/2012 23:46
Subject: Re:Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous
05/10/2012 23:45
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
I bet 90% of the posters on here aren't even gay or black. I wish we could ban all future threads involving
1) Gay marriage,
2) Mitt Romney's $$$
3) Mitt Romney's wife being a SAHM
4) Mitt Romney's tales of elementary school
5) Whatever the latest thing is that black people apparently do.
What would we be left with . . .
1) Gay marriage,
2) Mitt Romney's $$$
3) Mitt Romney's wife being a SAHM
4) Mitt Romney's tales of elementary school
5) Whatever the latest thing is that black people apparently do.
What would we be left with . . .
Anonymous
05/10/2012 23:44
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
You want to quarrel with everything and anything. If you think religion is the problem, then I wonder how you are going to fix it without changing what is spoken from the pulpit. You can't have it both ways. If the ministers are spreading the hate, they need to spread the tolerance.Anonymous wrote:"The community needs to be led"
How condescending.
Anonymous
05/10/2012 23:32
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
More women than men support gay marriage, and the gap is pretty significant. Why not address homophobia as it relates to perceptions of masculinity in all racial and ethnic groups?
Anonymous
05/10/2012 23:17
Subject: Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
"The community needs to be led"
How condescending.
How condescending.
Anonymous
05/10/2012 23:06
Subject: Re:Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
Anonymous wrote:@19:50-
1. I'm not angry and I'm not sure how you got anger from my post. If you don't believe the data and don't have any data on hand that you do believe, there really isn't much point in discussing it further.
2. Your focus on being "unhappy" with large blocks of people instead of focusing on ways to change their thinking is strange but telling.
3.Would you not hold whites accountable for discrimination against black people? Would you only look at the root causes, say white poverty or their churches? No.
How can you claim that without knowing me or how I think? It's actually insulting. Because I don't believe people are inherently racist, of course I study the root causes of racism. I do the same for other forms of prejudice. You can't contribute to progress if you can't understand what needs to change. Again, your focus on holding people accountable is extreme, but it's remniscient of our society's thirst for justice above all else. I don't care about holding people accountable for racism or sexism or classism- I care about eradicating (or, more realistically, reducing) those kinds of prejudice.
4. And the white people (and people of other races) who support the ban os same-sex marriage are also overwhelmingly religious. So instead of focusing on race, why not focus on the one factor that study after study has shown is the root of the anti-gay prejudice? And you don't even have to look to research, you can read this forum. The people who are against same-sex marriage most often use religious reasons. This forum is also majority-white.
Of course, religiosity differs by race, so the approach in each "community" has to be different and tailored to that specific group of people. But this is not a race problem, it's a religious problem.
5. I agree and I'd say that for every group of people, including the group of white young adults I witnessed today, who teasing each other by calling each other fags and saying a particular friend's shorts look "faggy."
I told you which data I preferred and I also said that sticking with the data you accept is still bad. Not sure why that point keeps eluding you.
I know what the solution is in the black community. Shockingly, it is that black leaders need to go on the record in support of gay marriage - both secular leaders and the ministers. The community needs to be led, and that is part of what Obama is doing. It's also what Sharpton and Jackson have done. But right now there are too few. I don't have to take responsibility for every ethnic group. I'll stick with what I know. I also know that religion is not the only important factor regarding black opinions on gay marriage. You can google black gay support groups and see for yourself. Or read "The Greatest Taboo: Homosexuality in Black Communities" by Delroy Constantine-Simms and Skip Gates, where a few essays in particular will go a long way in this discussion. Or read something by bell hooks or Eric Brandt. There are other issues such as the role of masculinity in the black community and preservation of the black family unit that drive the problem in addition to what is preached from the pulpit. And because of that, yes I think it is important to address racism in the black community as a separate thing and not pretend this is just religion. The fact is that these authors, who live in the middle of the problem, are treating it as a black social issue of which religion is one component.
So if you want to counter the O'Reilly's of the world with a state and a one liner like "it's a religion thing", go ahead. Within the black community, the reality is much more involved.
Anonymous
05/10/2012 22:50
Subject: Re:Blacks will defeat gay marriage bill in Maryland
^Exactly, but for some reason all people want to do is rant on about how black people- all black people- are against gay marriage, which:
1. Alienates black people who are for same-sex marriage.
2. Doesn't change the minds of anti-gay black people, because they're largely anti-gay because they're very religious. A more effective way of trying to change their minds would be through religious appeals- using scripture and other religious examples to promote tolerance.
But if you point this out, people just keep going on about holding others accountable. Oh well.
1. Alienates black people who are for same-sex marriage.
2. Doesn't change the minds of anti-gay black people, because they're largely anti-gay because they're very religious. A more effective way of trying to change their minds would be through religious appeals- using scripture and other religious examples to promote tolerance.
But if you point this out, people just keep going on about holding others accountable. Oh well.