Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 22:32     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Ok, so if the president of your institution makes $500k, that is about $166 per hour based on a 60 hr workweek. Are you saying that their time should be spent doing something, like dishes, that can be done by someone making less to none per hour? Your board of trustees isn't paying any dishwashers $500k, are they?
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 22:28     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I have rarely seen an admin assistant (or secretary as you call it) who isnt asked to handle personal things for their boss, esp if the boss is C-level. Our admin plans our boss' kid's birthday parties for goodness sake. Takes boss' shoes to the cobbler, etc. It goes back to what your time is worth to the company. If your time is worth thousands of dollars/hour, hundreds of dollars/hour, and you wish to ask someone else to do your dishes, I see nothing wrong with it. Caveat: when that person is hired, it should be clear that they are doing personal and business-related functions.


And this is absolutely not how things work in higher ed institutions. And in a lot of other workplaces. (What is "C-level"??) For starters, nobody's time is worth thousands of dollars per hour in our world!! That's 2 million per year. The president of my institution probably makes around a quarter of that.


C level = upper level executive. CEO, CFO, CTO, CMO, CIO, etc. You can google those terms if you don't know what they stand for. And 2 million is a normal salary for an experienced CEO with a public co. Many make more.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 20:58     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a doctoral student working on a graduate assistantship at a university and there is absolutely no way my supervisors would ask me or any other grad assistant to wash dishes for them. Your cousin needs to take this up with HR. Tell him to bring the email and any other documentation with him to the HR meeting. Absolutely ridiculous that his boss would make this request.


Yes, you're absolutely right if this is an assistantship but the way it's written makes it sounds like it's not part of a funding package, just a random on campus job.


As an employment lawyer with a background in academia, I'd say that there's being technically in the right, and there's being a little politic because you've got bigger fish to fry and want to keep on your boss's good side. The guy could have won this little battle but lost the war -- boss sees him as a pain, won't ever give a good recommendation and might even subtly sabotage him with water cooler chat to other faculty in the department. If it became a chronic problem, then think about taking steps, but for a one-off request, the cousin misplayed the situation.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 20:50     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Yea. An EPA muckety muck got EEO'd hard for have her 15 do stuff like this
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 20:41     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:I'm a doctoral student working on a graduate assistantship at a university and there is absolutely no way my supervisors would ask me or any other grad assistant to wash dishes for them. Your cousin needs to take this up with HR. Tell him to bring the email and any other documentation with him to the HR meeting. Absolutely ridiculous that his boss would make this request.


Yes, you're absolutely right if this is an assistantship but the way it's written makes it sounds like it's not part of a funding package, just a random on campus job.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 19:33     Subject: Re:Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
I'm a GS-15 manager and I have washed dishes many times in my work place, for conferences, special events, parties, etc. I guess I have washed them "for" my boss but I don't think of it that way. We all clean up after these events, some of us converge to do so and there are usually more volunteers than there are dishes. Everyone tries to get this stuff done. I guess if I were ordered to do it on a routine basis I would be angry, but I can't see having to do it once as a big deal.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:29     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:
I have rarely seen an admin assistant (or secretary as you call it) who isnt asked to handle personal things for their boss, esp if the boss is C-level. Our admin plans our boss' kid's birthday parties for goodness sake. Takes boss' shoes to the cobbler, etc. It goes back to what your time is worth to the company. If your time is worth thousands of dollars/hour, hundreds of dollars/hour, and you wish to ask someone else to do your dishes, I see nothing wrong with it. Caveat: when that person is hired, it should be clear that they are doing personal and business-related functions.


And this is absolutely not how things work in higher ed institutions. And in a lot of other workplaces. (What is "C-level"??) For starters, nobody's time is worth thousands of dollars per hour in our world!! That's 2 million per year. The president of my institution probably makes around a quarter of that.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:29     Subject: Re:Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:Washing dishes is not beneath anyone. If I had been told this cultural reason for not wanting to wash dishes (ie, your cousin is too good to do this although others are not), I would have washed the dishes myself and then fired your cousin.


Same here. I've washed dishes for co-workers, bosses, subordinates, whatever. Not something to make an issue out of.

If he was low on the totem pole, he can whine and complain about it or just suck it up for the 5 mins it'd take.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:28     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Also in the USA we do not have the scads of servants found in India. As you know we don't have a caste system here where people are destined to have menial jobs from birth.

I'd have 3-5 people working in my house in India according to some.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:24     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:My cousin is here in the US from India to complete his Master's degree. He works in a department at his university doing programming and odds and ends for projects. Sometimes he is sent on gophering jobs like running papers between buildings.

Recently, his boss was in a meeting with other professors. His secretary was out for the day. My cousin was called in and asked to wash his boss's dirty coffee cup and breakfast dishes. My cousin didn't say anything at the time. Later, he tried to talk to his boss but the boss had left for the day. So he wrote an email, saying he would not wash his dirty dishes, it wasn't in his job duties. A week or two later, my cousin got canned.

Some background - in India, washing someone's dirty dishes is considered a low, menial, task reserved for those without education. It would be an insult for a boss to ask such of a white collar employee. Touching someone's used dirty (joota) is considered unclean socially, religiously and culturally.

So, was my cousin out of line for refusing? Was this just an example of culture clash? Or was his boss wrong for asking?

Fwiw, I was born and grew up in the US and I don't think I would have washed the dirty dishes either.


He's a gopher at the beck and call. He should be glad he got the position [tuition break?]. It is not abnormal for people in a department/office to clean up kitchenettes . Some one has to do it so usually a low level employee tidies up.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:19     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who said it isn't a big deal to do dishes. I work in higher ed. It really isn't any different than anywhere else. People who like to make drama are everywhere and as hard to get rid of elsewhere as in higher ed.

We don't know that the kid was fired for dishgate. We don't know what he was fired for and OP has not been generous with the details. This story doesn't add up.


I've worked white collar jobs my entire professional life, and I cannot imagine ever being asked to do someone's dishes at the office. I don't even think it's an appropriate request for one's assistant (unless it's a specifically *personal* assistant). It's just not done in a professional environment. Heck, I felt bad asking an intern once to go to another floor to find me some anti-burn ointment when I burned myself and had to run off to a meeting.


My thoughts exactly! Does this guy's secretary clean his coffee cup on a regular basis? I doubt this is in her job description.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:10     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many people actually think it's APPROPRIATE to have a subordinate do their dishes. Really? In a professional office setting there's no way in hell it would be appropriate for someone to be asked to do dishes who wasn't in custodial services.


I work in a federal courthouse; you wouldn't believe what employees do for judges. This guy sounds like he would be a PITA employee and co-worker.


And you don't see this as the judges being the PITAs?


No more than the doctors I have worked for. 8)
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:10     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:Your cousin was asked to wash some dishes ONCE. It was arguably related to his job because he is the department gopher. I understand it isn't in his job duties, but most jobs say "other duties as assigned" or similar language. I can understand if it became a daily thing, but he was out of line to make a big deal about being asked to do it once.

While I wouldn't generally ask an employee to wash dishes, I would be very annoyed at someone who made a huge deal out of any small task like that. I don't blame his boss for firing him.


I agree with this. Not a huge deal, and I agree that most jobs do require 'other duties'.

I think your cousin was just being high maintenance.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:09     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
My sister was an assistant to a college Vice Dean. She cheerfully did a ton of stuff for her boss that was outside of her job description.

When her boss left to take a another position, she recommended my sister to replace her. She liked my sister's can-do attitude.

My sister got the job. Vice Dean, tee hee.
Anonymous
Post 04/26/2012 17:06     Subject: Would you wash your boss's dirty dishes?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can't believe how many people actually think it's APPROPRIATE to have a subordinate do their dishes. Really? In a professional office setting there's no way in hell it would be appropriate for someone to be asked to do dishes who wasn't in custodial services.


I work in a federal courthouse; you wouldn't believe what employees do for judges. This guy sounds like he would be a PITA employee and co-worker.


And you don't see this as the judges being the PITAs?