Anonymous wrote:what about adhd, should we abort those kids also? What about non blonde hair blue eyed or men who will grow up to be less than 6 feet tall. You know that genetic testing is coming to that extent.

Agree. Or sex selection. It's disgusting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And let me just add that while you are sitting on your ass crying crocodile tears about the abortion of Special Needs kids, some idiot has gone on for 14 pages in Schools General Discussion about why her children have to go to school with Special Needs kids. This is the real problem for Special Needs kids -- not abortion -- REAL LIFE -- so why not join reality, toots, and dry those crocodile tears. Phantom special needs babies don't need your help. Real special needs kids do.

Wow, PP. That's really troubling and you are absolutely correct!

That's right!!!!

What's troubling is that it is all the same mindset: if people are so darn scared out of their minds to have a child who is less than perfect, that they're rather kill it, then they are contributing to a society where people only see typically developing people or childrnen around them, and other folks are even afraid of having their children in a classroom with them. Thanks for contributing to this society. Thanks. It's all part and parcel of the same phenomenon.

Special Needs mom here. Get back to me when you've posted on THAT thread.

I'm a special needs mom myself. And I've been on that thread.

Then you of all people should know that abortion will never eliminate special needs children. ADHD, autism, cerebral palsy, Rett's syndrome, traumatic brain injury, I could go on and on...none of these conditions show up in prenatal testing.

what about adhd, should we abort those kids also? What about non blonde hair blue eyed or men who will grow up to be less than 6 feet tall. You know that genetic testing is coming to that extent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And let me just add that while you are sitting on your ass crying crocodile tears about the abortion of Special Needs kids, some idiot has gone on for 14 pages in Schools General Discussion about why her children have to go to school with Special Needs kids. This is the real problem for Special Needs kids -- not abortion -- REAL LIFE -- so why not join reality, toots, and dry those crocodile tears. Phantom special needs babies don't need your help. Real special needs kids do.

Wow, PP. That's really troubling and you are absolutely correct!

That's right!!!!

What's troubling is that it is all the same mindset: if people are so darn scared out of their minds to have a child who is less than perfect, that they're rather kill it, then they are contributing to a society where people only see typically developing people or childrnen around them, and other folks are even afraid of having their children in a classroom with them. Thanks for contributing to this society. Thanks. It's all part and parcel of the same phenomenon.

Special Needs mom here. Get back to me when you've posted on THAT thread.

I'm a special needs mom myself. And I've been on that thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And let me just add that while you are sitting on your ass crying crocodile tears about the abortion of Special Needs kids, some idiot has gone on for 14 pages in Schools General Discussion about why her children have to go to school with Special Needs kids. This is the real problem for Special Needs kids -- not abortion -- REAL LIFE -- so why not join reality, toots, and dry those crocodile tears. Phantom special needs babies don't need your help. Real special needs kids do.

Wow, PP. That's really troubling and you are absolutely correct!

That's right!!!!

What's troubling is that it is all the same mindset: if people are so darn scared out of their minds to have a child who is less than perfect, that they're rather kill it, then they are contributing to a society where people only see typically developing people or childrnen around them, and other folks are even afraid of having their children in a classroom with them. Thanks for contributing to this society. Thanks. It's all part and parcel of the same phenomenon.

Special Needs mom here. Get back to me when you've posted on THAT thread.

OP, I have noticed that there are not many open minds on this site. I think it is because many of the women here have actually had abortions or so it seems from many of these posts. I guess once you've gone through with an abortion, it would be difficult to think that maybe there was another option.

Also, a lot of these women waited until they were past 35 to have children, knowing the risks. So that grouping of women is probably more okay with aborting a child if it happens to have a disability they are not willing to accept.

What? This is damn offensive, PP. Show us some real research to back your accusations up or admit that you are the judgmental and close minded. Spouting this nonsense as if it is some kind of fact is beyond close minded, it's inflammatory and stupid.

Anonymous wrote:I have a cousin with spina bifida. She had a very difficult childhood filled with painful surgeries. She is now a college-educated, married woman leading a wonderful life.

I also had a pregnancy that I chose to terminate because of Down Syndrome. I did this because while I know that many people with Down Syndrome go on to lead long, healthy lives, I also know of babies who died immediately after birth, at 4 months, and at 21. I've known families that have fallen apart and elderly parents who are spending their last years caring for adult children who cannot take care of themselves. We decided we did not want to take the chance that that could happen to our family. We did not want our older child to have to care for a disabled child after we are gone. I understand that you can never predict the future, but we considered our odds and chose not to take the chance.

That does not mean I do not value the lives of disabled people, like my cousin. I made a choice that I felt was best for my family and it has nothing to do with other families and their choices. I wish everyone the best of luck with their choices.

THIS! These choices are not easy, black and white.

My dad had a sister born with anencephaly in 1933. There was no way for my grandmother to know that she was going to give birth to a baby without a brain and that the child would live less than ten minutes. It was horribly tragic for her and she never healed. My grandmother used to tell my aunt that God took her good daughter and left my rotten aunt in her place. She was so bitter and angry and resentful. She was a nurse and after her dd died she decided to dedicate her life to prenatal care. She worked because she was dedicated to help women like her even if she couldn't deal with what happened in her life.

My mother's sister was born a year later and got stuck in the birth canal. All thoughts were that she was a healthy baby until lack of oxygen and forceps used improperly. They squeezed the sides of her heads and she had marks that lasted the better part of a year. My aunt was slow and epileptic. This grandmother also worked full time, selling magazine subscriptions, from home. She wanted to make sure there was enough money socked away so my aunt would be taken care of when my grandmother and grandfather died. Imagine her surprise when she came home and said she had met someone and that in a few short months they married. They've been married 51 years now.

I learned a lot from these women. You never know for sure what's going to happen and as stupid as it does sound, landing in Holland, about sums it up. If my grandmother knew her baby had a condition that wasn't compatible with life she would have had months to prepare or the choice to end the pregnancy. Instead she probably never even got to hold her baby and while she had a name picked out for her it was never put on a death certificate.

My other grandmother had a baby injured during birth. In this day and age we have all these tests done to see if there is anything wrong with our child but nothing could predict something like this.

I had all the tests done to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. All tests came back fine and both of my babies were born with Apgar scores of 10-10-10. They both had ten fingers and ten toes and zero tails. Perfectly healthy. Except for the fact that neither of them are. By the time they were 7 both had been diagnosed with severe mental illness. There's no testing for that. I grieved for the life I thought we were going to have and was sure the life we would have would be a struggle. And it is. We are all in therapy and prepared for when either kid hits bottom. I can't work because it's all too unpredictable and caring for them is my full-time job. When they are in school I am on call. And trust me, the school calls, all the time. I know the voices of the teachers, receptionists, and nurse so I never have to ask who is calling.

I can't say what I would have done if faced with a pregnancy where the child had a condition that wasn't compatible with life. I just don't know. It wasn't something I have had to face. I do know for sure that I wouldn't have aborted if the child was special needs. Down Syndrome, missing a hand, a leg, whatever, it didn't matter to my husband or me. It would have been nice to be prepared though and not for it all to have gone pear shaped on us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And let me just add that while you are sitting on your ass crying crocodile tears about the abortion of Special Needs kids, some idiot has gone on for 14 pages in Schools General Discussion about why her children have to go to school with Special Needs kids. This is the real problem for Special Needs kids -- not abortion -- REAL LIFE -- so why not join reality, toots, and dry those crocodile tears. Phantom special needs babies don't need your help. Real special needs kids do.

Wow, PP. That's really troubling and you are absolutely correct!

That's right!!!!

What's troubling is that it is all the same mindset: if people are so darn scared out of their minds to have a child who is less than perfect, that they're rather kill it, then they are contributing to a society where people only see typically developing people or childrnen around them, and other folks are even afraid of having their children in a classroom with them. Thanks for contributing to this society. Thanks. It's all part and parcel of the same phenomenon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the mom of a child w/ a now-repaired cleft lip and cleft palate, your post moved me to tears. I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree with it. Parents, it really is true: "If you ever find yourself in that position of discovering that your child is not going to be who you thought: relax. It's not going to be that bad. You are strong enough, you are amazing enough, you will do just fine. There's no need to panic. Remember that people with disabilities are people. They love, they laugh, they play, they communicate, they live. If you can get over yourself, you will do just fine."

Another really thoughful thing about this same topic is: "Welcome to Holland"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Holland

When you’re going to have a baby, it’s like planning a fabulous vacation trip to Italy. You buy a bunch of guide books and make your wonderful plans. The Coliseum, the Sistine Chapel, Gondolas. You may learn some handy phrases in Italian. It’s all very exciting. After several months of eager anticipation, the day finally arrives. You pack your bags and off you go. Several hours later, the plane lands. The stewardess comes in and says, “Welcome to Holland!” “Holland?” you say. “What do you mean, Holland? I signed up for Italy. I’m supposed to be in Italy. All my life I’ve dreamed of going to Italy.” But there’s been a change in the flight plan. They’ve landed in Holland and there you must stay. The important thing is that they haven’t taken you to a horrible, disgusting, filthy place full of pestilence, famine, and disease. It’s just a different place. So, you must go out and buy new guidebooks. And you must learn a whole new language. And you will meet a whole new group of people you would never have met. It’s just a different place. It’s slower paced than Italy, less flashy than Italy. But after you’ve been there for a while and you catch your breath, you look around. You begin to notice that Holland has windmills. Holland has tulips. And Holland even has Rembrandts. But everyone you know is busy coming and going from Italy, and they’re all bragging about what a wonderful time they had there. And for the rest of your life you will say, “Yes, that’s where I was supposed to go. That’s what I had planned.” And the pain of that experience will never, ever, ever, go away. The loss of that dream is a very significant loss. But if you spend your life mourning the fact that you didn’t get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very lovely things about Holland.

"Welcome to Holland" is so stupid it makes my head hurt.

Stupid is as stupid does. My head and heart hurt for your children.

What does that even mean? Can't you come up with anything less trite than the Holland metaphor, or recycled Forrest Gump? I think my head just exploded instead.

Oh, this is so original: "my head just exploded." Never heard that before. Wow!

And take your pick: if it is so trite, then why don't you understand it?

And particularly funny that you mention Forrrest Gump, since he's one of the individuals who is likely to have been aborted if people responding here had their druthers!

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, I don't think so. I think you have reached a couple people who have heard the words "there is a trisomy on chromosome [13, 18]. The condition is incompatible with life. You will probably lose the baby sometime in the second or third trimester. If the baby reaches term, it will probably be still born. If it is born, it will have multiple defects and will die shortly after birth of organ failure. If the baby doesn't immediately die of organ failure, s/he will need at least a dozen surgeries immediately to correct [holes in his/her heart, bone, ...]. The baby will have decreased immunity, so s/he can't play with your other children. S/he will have learning disabilities and will never [walk, talk, eat or breathe on his/her own]. Even with the surgeries and the best medicine we have, the baby will probably die before his/her fourth birthday, because that is the longest any child with this condition has ever lived."

Thank you for posting this. I am very thankful I have never been placed in this position, and I think it is best left to the parents of the child and God what their decision is.

I have 2 close friends that had children with heart defects. One died after multiple surgeries in just a few short days of life. I can only imagine that those few days were filled with pain and misery. The other, the defects were less severe and he is a mostly healthy 3 year old. I have always thought if I were in that position, I would have the child but allow for the child to die naturally. However, even that can be a legal battle if you have a hospital that wants to try and save every life, even if it just means living 2-3 months mostly sedated, and when not sedated, in sheer agony. That is why the government should be left out of these heart-wrenching decisions, and leave it to the parents that will have the true best interests of the child in mind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the mom of a child w/ a now-repaired cleft lip and cleft palate, your post moved me to tears. I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree with it. Parents, it really is true: "If you ever find yourself in that position of discovering that your child is not going to be who you thought: relax. It's not going to be that bad. You are strong enough, you are amazing enough, you will do just fine. There's no need to panic. Remember that people with disabilities are people. They love, they laugh, they play, they communicate, they live. If you can get over yourself, you will do just fine."

Another really thoughful thing about this same topic is: "Welcome to Holland"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Holland

When you’re going to have a baby, it’s like planning a fabulous vacation trip to Italy. You buy a bunch of guide books and make your wonderful plans. The Coliseum, the Sistine Chapel, Gondolas. You may learn some handy phrases in Italian. It’s all very exciting. After several months of eager anticipation, the day finally arrives. You pack your bags and off you go. Several hours later, the plane lands. The stewardess comes in and says, “Welcome to Holland!” “Holland?” you say. “What do you mean, Holland? I signed up for Italy. I’m supposed to be in Italy. All my life I’ve dreamed of going to Italy.” But there’s been a change in the flight plan. They’ve landed in Holland and there you must stay. The important thing is that they haven’t taken you to a horrible, disgusting, filthy place full of pestilence, famine, and disease. It’s just a different place. So, you must go out and buy new guidebooks. And you must learn a whole new language. And you will meet a whole new group of people you would never have met. It’s just a different place. It’s slower paced than Italy, less flashy than Italy. But after you’ve been there for a while and you catch your breath, you look around. You begin to notice that Holland has windmills. Holland has tulips. And Holland even has Rembrandts. But everyone you know is busy coming and going from Italy, and they’re all bragging about what a wonderful time they had there. And for the rest of your life you will say, “Yes, that’s where I was supposed to go. That’s what I had planned.” And the pain of that experience will never, ever, ever, go away. The loss of that dream is a very significant loss. But if you spend your life mourning the fact that you didn’t get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very lovely things about Holland.

"Welcome to Holland" is so stupid it makes my head hurt.

Stupid is as stupid does. My head and heart hurt for your children.

What does that even mean? Can't you come up with anything less trite than the Holland metaphor, or recycled Forrest Gump? I think my head just exploded instead.

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to MYOB. People make decisions for themselves based on THEIR life and THEIR situation.

No decision made is easy for parents in respect to this and I find your post offensive.

Yeah, I agree. I never had an abortion. But I would if I had a bad diagnosis. I have a severely handicapped brother in a wheel chair. Will never feed himself, toilet himself... will never walk, never fall in love. He has the mental capacity of maybe a 5 year old. He has seizures and has become increasingly depressed and now catatonic much of the time. His life expectancy is such that my parents, who are elderly, have had to plan for his care for probably 50 years or so after their own death. That is a terrifying idea for them - that they won't be around to be sure he is cared for compassionately. Never mind the guilt they feel for burdening their other children with responsibility for him.

My brother's life scared me so bad that I almost didn't have children at all. His life is not a life I would wish on anyone. And I love him, dearly.

Anonymous wrote:When you are personally faced with a diagnosis that does or does not work for you family then you can do whatever you like up there on your high horse. For those of us who have actually experienced this and have been told that the baby we're carrying with Trisomy 13 or some other fatal/incompatible with life diagnosis/is not viable, we will do what works for us and our family. Good for your sister for doing it her way! Not that anyone needs to justify themselves to the likes of you, but sometimes I think that people like you are just plain ignorant about exactly how many terrible diagnosis' are out there and given to a woman who is very excited about having a baby and then BAM...world turned upside down! For me, there was no way I was going to give birth to a baby who at best be born and suffer 5 days of life completely supported by modern medicine and at worst would be still born late in the pregnancy. Either way, I hope your pregnancy is a healthy one and that you never have to face the decisions that many of us have. Please think before you post.

I am so sorry for your loss. During my pregnancies, learning about these fatal conditions had me scared out of mind and wondering what we would do if we had this type of diagnosis from any of the tests. I thank god everyday that I didn't have to face this situation and prayer for those that do. Again my sincere condolences for your loss.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And let me just add that while you are sitting on your ass crying crocodile tears about the abortion of Special Needs kids, some idiot has gone on for 14 pages in Schools General Discussion about why her children have to go to school with Special Needs kids. This is the real problem for Special Needs kids -- not abortion -- REAL LIFE -- so why not join reality, toots, and dry those crocodile tears. Phantom special needs babies don't need your help. Real special needs kids do.

Wow, PP. That's really troubling and you are absolutely correct!

That's right!!!!