Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I think the thing that really gets me is this: "The Vatican report took the nuns to task for making “occasional public statements” that disagree with the bishops, “who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals.” Let's not mention their conduct during the child sex abuse scandals in this statement, although I think this total arrogance explains alot of what happened during that crisis too.

The bishops seem to be saying, how dare these women make public statements about matters of public policy (not even talking about church doctrine or anything) because the bishops have the last word. One of them even went on and on about how the bishops are the successors of Peter and the apostles and are therefore imbued with the special knowledge and authority to comment and have the final word. How humble! Talking to these highly educated women who have dedicated their lives to the church like they are children! Google the bishops house in Chicago by the way...these men definitely don't live austere lives like so many nuns.

Even for the current pope and these bishops this seems beyond the pale. Going after the church's own nuns!

OP, I'm genuinely curious and I hope you will give a genuine answer. Why do you care so much about the Catholic church? You're obviously not Catholic, or you wouldn't start a thread about "Catholic pissing on women" and completely miss that these are Catholic women with the courage to oppose the Vatican. Instead, you seem so furious that you're blinded to certain realities, like these are Catholic nuns, and that lots of Catholics support the nuns. And since we haven't seen any threads asking, for example, if Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women are comfortable wearing headclothes, we can presume that you (nor anybody else) are not going after these other religions. So, why the vitriol? I am sincere in asking because I've always wanted to know.

What? I am (or was) Catholic. I said that in my original thread. And I do think the bishops do and continue to piss on women. This is just another fine example. It makes me angry on their behalf, and angry because it's just finally completely pushed me away. I also don't believe it has to be this way, but for now it is, so I'm out.

OK, so you are out. Brush the chip off your shoulder and move on.

So you're okay with the bishops treating nuns like this? Talk to us about that.

I'm not Catholic so I really don't give a rat's ass how the bishops treat the nuns.

NP, if you don't give a rat's ass, why bother to respond to this thread at all? Catholic or not, I find the Catholic patriarchal system disturbing. The years of brushing aside and HIDING abuse case after abuse case just floors me. I don't have to be Catholic to care, I can just be human.

Former (now non-practicing) Catholic here. What I think escapes the notice (or perhaps understanding) of many on this board is that there is a great deal of emotional pain that goes along with leaving the Catholic Church for many of us. We are leaving it for all of the reasons discussed, but it was good to us when we were growing up. Maybe we just didn't know what was going on (for sure we didn't know about the child abuse!) but we believed. We thought we were doing right. The priests, bishops, ccardinals... They were the GOOD guys. We prayed to them and for them every Sunday in church. We helped the poor, and we're reminded to give of ourselves and continue to do that. In the stricter homes, we prayed often, and believed that as we followed Church law, so we're the leaders of our Church. To find out now, as adults, how wrong we were, how corrupt the GOOD guys are (and have been), how we'ce been lied to and duped, has shaken us badly. We are badly hurt in ways you can't begin to imagine. Please try not to be so flippant about it. Telling us to "get over it" is harsh. We will. We are. But it's easier said than done for many of us.

Somehow these nuns should just stand up to these creepy old dudes. I mean I guess they are trying, and they've obviously gotten under their skin, big time. If all the laity and nuns and sisters just stood up to them....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Worse, there are those of us who are heartbroken by what the church has done. My family has been Catholic for over 1,000 years. They gave me and my family so much. Do you have any idea how much pain I'm in that I can't be in the Church?

Did they rape, steal, pillage and enslave in the name of God to do it? I think they did.

No in my case they educated me, took care of my parents when they were sick, and sponsored me to move abroad to work with the poor. There wasn't any raping involved nor did I receive any proceeds from the pillaging, just contributions from my local parishoners, ie neighbors.

This is the problem of the thread. On one hand we have people like you who just shout evil evil evil. And on the other we have the super-Catholics who hear you and the venom and dismiss the entire thread as catholic bashing. So you basically give them the excuse to ignore the whole story.

Meanwhile there are large numbers of current and former Catholics and noncatholics who want to discuss the meaning of what happened and you and the supercatholics shout us down. Congratulations you are your enemy's best friend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Sure, the church leadership is reprehensible.

But your broad brush of hatred includes the many concerned catholics who don't like their own leadership (some of whom are posting on this thread), and the wonderful nuns themselves. These people are part of the Catholic church too, but you ignore them completely.

Hatred and prejudice are broad brush problems. One symptom being a categorical refusal to understand nuance.

+1

Dalai Lama, April 16 (Facebook)

The first drawback of anger is that it destroys your inner peace; the second is that it distorts your view of reality. If you think about this and come to understand that anger is really unhelpful, that it is only destructive, you can begin to distance yourself from anger.

- Signed, Possibly the only Republican on DCUMs

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I think the thing that really gets me is this: "The Vatican report took the nuns to task for making “occasional public statements” that disagree with the bishops, “who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals.” Let's not mention their conduct during the child sex abuse scandals in this statement, although I think this total arrogance explains alot of what happened during that crisis too.

The bishops seem to be saying, how dare these women make public statements about matters of public policy (not even talking about church doctrine or anything) because the bishops have the last word. One of them even went on and on about how the bishops are the successors of Peter and the apostles and are therefore imbued with the special knowledge and authority to comment and have the final word. How humble! Talking to these highly educated women who have dedicated their lives to the church like they are children! Google the bishops house in Chicago by the way...these men definitely don't live austere lives like so many nuns.

Even for the current pope and these bishops this seems beyond the pale. Going after the church's own nuns!

OP, I'm genuinely curious and I hope you will give a genuine answer. Why do you care so much about the Catholic church? You're obviously not Catholic, or you wouldn't start a thread about "Catholic pissing on women" and completely miss that these are Catholic women with the courage to oppose the Vatican. Instead, you seem so furious that you're blinded to certain realities, like these are Catholic nuns, and that lots of Catholics support the nuns. And since we haven't seen any threads asking, for example, if Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women are comfortable wearing headclothes, we can presume that you (nor anybody else) are not going after these other religions. So, why the vitriol? I am sincere in asking because I've always wanted to know.

What? I am (or was) Catholic. I said that in my original thread. And I do think the bishops do and continue to piss on women. This is just another fine example. It makes me angry on their behalf, and angry because it's just finally completely pushed me away. I also don't believe it has to be this way, but for now it is, so I'm out.

OK, so you are out. Brush the chip off your shoulder and move on.

So you're okay with the bishops treating nuns like this? Talk to us about that.

I'm not Catholic so I really don't give a rat's ass how the bishops treat the nuns.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: the male hierarchy in the church are misogynists?

Great posts of late here - first knocking on the LDS religion, then Catholics. What religious group is next on the docket of DCUM hatred I wonder. Now go grab Bubba and go hoggin'

Actually, Mormons and Catholics seem to be the only targets for a small number of DCUMers. They leave all other religions alone. I wish Ratzinger would go away, he offends my feminist principles. But I wish the DCUM haters would go away, too, and I'm not talking about the concerned, self-identified Catholics who are posting here. Ironically, it's not rednecks who are doing the hateful bashing, it's people who think of themselves as sophisticated and thoughtful. But it seems everybody needs to make themselves feel good by hating somebody else....

- signed, neither Mormon or Catholic, but Disgusted

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I think the thing that really gets me is this: "The Vatican report took the nuns to task for making “occasional public statements” that disagree with the bishops, “who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals.” Let's not mention their conduct during the child sex abuse scandals in this statement, although I think this total arrogance explains alot of what happened during that crisis too.

The bishops seem to be saying, how dare these women make public statements about matters of public policy (not even talking about church doctrine or anything) because the bishops have the last word. One of them even went on and on about how the bishops are the successors of Peter and the apostles and are therefore imbued with the special knowledge and authority to comment and have the final word. How humble! Talking to these highly educated women who have dedicated their lives to the church like they are children! Google the bishops house in Chicago by the way...these men definitely don't live austere lives like so many nuns.

Even for the current pope and these bishops this seems beyond the pale. Going after the church's own nuns!

OP, I'm genuinely curious and I hope you will give a genuine answer. Why do you care so much about the Catholic church? You're obviously not Catholic, or you wouldn't start a thread about "Catholic pissing on women" and completely miss that these are Catholic women with the courage to oppose the Vatican. Instead, you seem so furious that you're blinded to certain realities, like these are Catholic nuns, and that lots of Catholics support the nuns. And since we haven't seen any threads asking, for example, if Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women are comfortable wearing headclothes, we can presume that you (nor anybody else) are not going after these other religions. So, why the vitriol? I am sincere in asking because I've always wanted to know.

What? I am (or was) Catholic. I said that in my original thread. And I do think the bishops do and continue to piss on women. This is just another fine example. It makes me angry on their behalf, and angry because it's just finally completely pushed me away. I also don't believe it has to be this way, but for now it is, so I'm out.

OK, so you are out. Brush the chip off your shoulder and move on.

So you're okay with the bishops treating nuns like this? Talk to us about that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I think the thing that really gets me is this: "The Vatican report took the nuns to task for making “occasional public statements” that disagree with the bishops, “who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals.” Let's not mention their conduct during the child sex abuse scandals in this statement, although I think this total arrogance explains alot of what happened during that crisis too.

The bishops seem to be saying, how dare these women make public statements about matters of public policy (not even talking about church doctrine or anything) because the bishops have the last word. One of them even went on and on about how the bishops are the successors of Peter and the apostles and are therefore imbued with the special knowledge and authority to comment and have the final word. How humble! Talking to these highly educated women who have dedicated their lives to the church like they are children! Google the bishops house in Chicago by the way...these men definitely don't live austere lives like so many nuns.

Even for the current pope and these bishops this seems beyond the pale. Going after the church's own nuns!

OP, I'm genuinely curious and I hope you will give a genuine answer. Why do you care so much about the Catholic church? You're obviously not Catholic, or you wouldn't start a thread about "Catholic pissing on women" and completely miss that these are Catholic women with the courage to oppose the Vatican. Instead, you seem so furious that you're blinded to certain realities, like these are Catholic nuns, and that lots of Catholics support the nuns. And since we haven't seen any threads asking, for example, if Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women are comfortable wearing headclothes, we can presume that you (nor anybody else) are not going after these other religions. So, why the vitriol? I am sincere in asking because I've always wanted to know.

What? I am (or was) Catholic. I said that in my original thread. And I do think the bishops do and continue to piss on women. This is just another fine example. It makes me angry on their behalf, and angry because it's just finally completely pushed me away. I also don't believe it has to be this way, but for now it is, so I'm out.

OK, so you are out. Brush the chip off your shoulder and move on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I think the thing that really gets me is this: "The Vatican report took the nuns to task for making “occasional public statements” that disagree with the bishops, “who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals.” Let's not mention their conduct during the child sex abuse scandals in this statement, although I think this total arrogance explains alot of what happened during that crisis too.

The bishops seem to be saying, how dare these women make public statements about matters of public policy (not even talking about church doctrine or anything) because the bishops have the last word. One of them even went on and on about how the bishops are the successors of Peter and the apostles and are therefore imbued with the special knowledge and authority to comment and have the final word. How humble! Talking to these highly educated women who have dedicated their lives to the church like they are children! Google the bishops house in Chicago by the way...these men definitely don't live austere lives like so many nuns.

Even for the current pope and these bishops this seems beyond the pale. Going after the church's own nuns!

OP, I'm genuinely curious and I hope you will give a genuine answer. Why do you care so much about the Catholic church? You're obviously not Catholic, or you wouldn't start a thread about "Catholic pissing on women" and completely miss that these are Catholic women with the courage to oppose the Vatican. Instead, you seem so furious that you're blinded to certain realities, like these are Catholic nuns, and that lots of Catholics support the nuns. And since we haven't seen any threads asking, for example, if Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women are comfortable wearing headclothes, we can presume that you (nor anybody else) are not going after these other religions. So, why the vitriol? I am sincere in asking because I've always wanted to know.

What? I am (or was) Catholic. I said that in my original thread. And I do think the bishops do and continue to piss on women. This is just another fine example. It makes me angry on their behalf, and angry because it's just finally completely pushed me away. I also don't believe it has to be this way, but for now it is, so I'm out.

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. I think the thing that really gets me is this: "The Vatican report took the nuns to task for making “occasional public statements” that disagree with the bishops, “who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals.” Let's not mention their conduct during the child sex abuse scandals in this statement, although I think this total arrogance explains alot of what happened during that crisis too.

The bishops seem to be saying, how dare these women make public statements about matters of public policy (not even talking about church doctrine or anything) because the bishops have the last word. One of them even went on and on about how the bishops are the successors of Peter and the apostles and are therefore imbued with the special knowledge and authority to comment and have the final word. How humble! Talking to these highly educated women who have dedicated their lives to the church like they are children! Google the bishops house in Chicago by the way...these men definitely don't live austere lives like so many nuns.

Even for the current pope and these bishops this seems beyond the pale. Going after the church's own nuns!

OP, I'm genuinely curious and I hope you will give a genuine answer. Why do you care so much about the Catholic church? You're obviously not Catholic, or you wouldn't start a thread about "Catholic pissing on women" and completely miss that these are Catholic women with the courage to oppose the Vatican. Instead, you seem so furious that you're blinded to certain realities, like these are Catholic nuns, and that lots of Catholics support the nuns. And since we haven't seen any threads asking, for example, if Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women are comfortable wearing headclothes, we can presume that you (nor anybody else) are not going after these other religions. So, why the vitriol? I am sincere in asking because I've always wanted to know.

This is the OP. I think the thing that really gets me is this: "The Vatican report took the nuns to task for making “occasional public statements” that disagree with the bishops, “who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals.” Let's not mention their conduct during the child sex abuse scandals in this statement, although I think this total arrogance explains alot of what happened during that crisis too.

The bishops seem to be saying, how dare these women make public statements about matters of public policy (not even talking about church doctrine or anything) because the bishops have the last word. One of them even went on and on about how the bishops are the successors of Peter and the apostles and are therefore imbued with the special knowledge and authority to comment and have the final word. How humble! Talking to these highly educated women who have dedicated their lives to the church like they are children! Google the bishops house in Chicago by the way...these men definitely don't live austere lives like so many nuns.

Even for the current pope and these bishops this seems beyond the pale. Going after the church's own nuns!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Worse, there are those of us who are heartbroken by what the church has done. My family has been Catholic for over 1,000 years. They gave me and my family so much. Do you have any idea how much pain I'm in that I can't be in the Church?

Did they rape, steal, pillage and enslave in the name of God to do it? I think they did.

NP here. Thanks for the history lesson, however you conveniently forgot just about every other religion, not to mention atheists like Stalin and Pol Pot. Let's return to the present, like the adults we are.

(I'm assuming you're an adult, although you could be ten!)

I am a ten, at least in my mind.

So the trolls have hit this thread. Too bad. There's definitely room on DCUM for a thread supporting the nuns against the Vatican, not this anti-catholic hatefest we always get. But given the obvious immaturity of some posters, and the crazy need to hate something of other posters, that sort of reasoned discussion, on this particular issue, will never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When person after person after person "hates" a religion, maybe you defenders should ask yourself - could there actually be anything about these religions that deserves the hatred? Could it be that there really is something reprehensible about these religions?

Worse, there are those of us who are heartbroken by what the church has done. My family has been Catholic for over 1,000 years. They gave me and my family so much. Do you have any idea how much pain I'm in that I can't be in the Church?

Did they rape, steal, pillage and enslave in the name of God to do it? I think they did.

NP here. Thanks for the history lesson, however you conveniently forgot just about every other religion, not to mention atheists like Stalin and Pol Pot. Let's return to the present, like the adults we are.

(I'm assuming you're an adult, although you could be ten!)

I am a ten, at least in my mind.

Anonymous wrote:This rebuke of the nuns is a big deal, even among the faithful. Don't pretend this topic is not legitimate.

Huh??? Anyway, don't pretend the nuns don't represent the catholic church too, that they're some how not a part of the church. Don't create some monolithic "evil" so that you can feel OK hating it.