In response to pp:
that has been our experience too. We were very surprised. Our western school principal seemed more apathetic and it was much harder to get challenge for our child because the attitude was "everything is fine". I have met other families who moved to western schools and had the same experience.
The curriculum and approach need to change and all schools have to provide these uniformly. Having been in a wonderful "red" zone school, I know what can be achieved when the school admin. is determined to provide a quality and appropriate education for every single child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1.
We moved from an eastern school to a western school. in the eastern school (which was wonderful by the way), the kids were grouped by ability. All the high achieving kids were pulled out for math AND reading and their teachers were fully trained and used the William and Mary curriculum. This approach worked and the school's test scores went up, presumably because every child got more attention at their level.
In our western school, there was no such grouping, except for Math so dc would end up with a reading group of two. Granted there was more uniformity amongst the kids in the western school but I believe the eastern school's approach was better.
I know this isn't true of all schools in the eastern side but I agree with the previous poster - whether you live on the east side or west side, all our kids would benefit from grouping and it does not require extra resources (except teacher training). They are doing it in Math - why not in other subjects. Let's stand together.

This Exactly! I agree and have been saying this for the last 4 years. We live in western MC, and I've been very frustrated at the lack of grouping in language arts and lack of implementation of the W&M curriculum. I also get so frustrated that so many people think that every school in this county operates in the same way because it is all MCPS. Since you have lived in both eastern & western MC and have had you attend two different elementary schools you clearly can attest to the fact that there are significant differences in the way the schools implement the curriculum. I agree that the eastern school you attended had a much better approach!

I'm the pp you quote. I could not agree more. I think the main problem in MCPS isn't just the green zone/red zone divide but the fact that there is no uniformity in the approach. If you are lucky to get a driven principal (which we had in our eastern school) who is determined to provide the best resources for every student, your child can get a good education in MCPS regardless of their ability. Too much depends on the principal you end up with which is largely a matter of luck. If parents knew that they could expect ability grouping (and differentiated/appropriate curriculum) in ALL schools in MCPS perhaps these resentments that seem to surface on the listserve would diminish.

I think the eastern-western hostility would diminish if people realize that the schools are pretty much kingdoms unto themselves. Moved to ES in western MC and the principal is utterly closeminded. AT our old eastern MC ES the school was wonderfu and the parents respectful. Never thought I'd miss it so much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1.
We moved from an eastern school to a western school. in the eastern school (which was wonderful by the way), the kids were grouped by ability. All the high achieving kids were pulled out for math AND reading and their teachers were fully trained and used the William and Mary curriculum. This approach worked and the school's test scores went up, presumably because every child got more attention at their level.
In our western school, there was no such grouping, except for Math so dc would end up with a reading group of two. Granted there was more uniformity amongst the kids in the western school but I believe the eastern school's approach was better.
I know this isn't true of all schools in the eastern side but I agree with the previous poster - whether you live on the east side or west side, all our kids would benefit from grouping and it does not require extra resources (except teacher training). They are doing it in Math - why not in other subjects. Let's stand together.

This Exactly! I agree and have been saying this for the last 4 years. We live in western MC, and I've been very frustrated at the lack of grouping in language arts and lack of implementation of the W&M curriculum. I also get so frustrated that so many people think that every school in this county operates in the same way because it is all MCPS. Since you have lived in both eastern & western MC and have had you attend two different elementary schools you clearly can attest to the fact that there are significant differences in the way the schools implement the curriculum. I agree that the eastern school you attended had a much better approach!

I'm the pp you quote. I could not agree more. I think the main problem in MCPS isn't just the green zone/red zone divide but the fact that there is no uniformity in the approach. If you are lucky to get a driven principal (which we had in our eastern school) who is determined to provide the best resources for every student, your child can get a good education in MCPS regardless of their ability. Too much depends on the principal you end up with which is largely a matter of luck. If parents knew that they could expect ability grouping (and differentiated/appropriate curriculum) in ALL schools in MCPS perhaps these resentments that seem to surface on the listserve would diminish.

Anonymous wrote:+1.
We moved from an eastern school to a western school. in the eastern school (which was wonderful by the way), the kids were grouped by ability. All the high achieving kids were pulled out for math AND reading and their teachers were fully trained and used the William and Mary curriculum. This approach worked and the school's test scores went up, presumably because every child got more attention at their level.
In our western school, there was no such grouping, except for Math so dc would end up with a reading group of two. Granted there was more uniformity amongst the kids in the western school but I believe the eastern school's approach was better.
I know this isn't true of all schools in the eastern side but I agree with the previous poster - whether you live on the east side or west side, all our kids would benefit from grouping and it does not require extra resources (except teacher training). They are doing it in Math - why not in other subjects. Let's stand together.

This Exactly! I agree and have been saying this for the last 4 years. We live in western MC, and I've been very frustrated at the lack of grouping in language arts and lack of implementation of the W&M curriculum. I also get so frustrated that so many people think that every school in this county operates in the same way because it is all MCPS. Since you have lived in both eastern & western MC and have had you attend two different elementary schools you clearly can attest to the fact that there are significant differences in the way the schools implement the curriculum. I agree that the eastern school you attended had a much better approach!

Question for 7:34 and 8: 36

What exactly do you want parents of HG children to do? I just don't understand what your motivation is. You seem to be very upset with the parents of these children. Please explain what your approach to GT and HG education would be (especially if you don't want ability grouping on merit) so that we can have a sensible discussion. If you have something positive and constructive to say, we are all waiting and we would hear you out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here are some facts

1. the GTA got about 104 comments for the Super's forum. Some comments were multiple comments from the same person, some were from people who weren't in our system! Even if all those commenters were counted it is still barely the number of parents of an incoming magnet class.
2. take out the comments that supported magnets and centers and you don't even have enough to claim anything.

this was truly a dumb idea.

This posts seems delusional. The reality is volunteering and advocating will never get 100% attendance. Our local elemenatry school probably has about 400-500 kids. Only 10/15 parents are the ones who are regulars in PTA meetings and they do a tremendous job representing all parents in all events. It drains them for sure, but the school cannot expect 100% parents participation in arranging the events etc. Same with the school my kids attend for magnet programs. Only a handful of magnet parents run all the events.

It is not a question of quantity but quality. Did you read the comments. If people waited to advocate an idea until it is popular, this country would still have slaves.

BTW magnet and center kids are also identified as GT (their subset is called HG). So, if they did not end up in magnet program, they will suffer a great deal in local schools. Even in middle school magnet program, the non-magnet classes need to have ability grouping. Don't even get me started with all the stress parents and kids go through for magnet testing before they are accepted due to the terrifying fear of the kind of education they will get in local school.

The OP is right. GTA couldn't get support form even a small fraction of parents. PP--not even one percent of those labeled have commented. 104 comments? You lost--just admit it that parents are fed up with the divisive ways of the new GTA administration. When did you guys get elected? What have you done with the money? Just stop attacking parents and get your leaders to stop emailing everyone in MCPS and the county council at the drop of a hat.

Here we go again. Can't argue on the grounds of the discussion, but has to diss a group of parents that care about education. Not very subtle that this is someone trying to undermine these parents because they can't argue against GT and ability grouping on merit.

I do not really give a damn about the GTA, what you think about the GTA or whether you care about opportunities for your children to get a challenging education in MCPS. There are parents who do care their children get appropriate and challenging instruction in school (MCPS). Many of us have no where to turn for help. Some of us do not give a damn about your infatuation with "gifted" labels. We do give a damn if a 5-year-old child with mastery of addition, subtraction, division and multiplication is sitting in a MCPS classroom with 25 others simply counting up to 100 all day long for 2-3 years. When situations like this occur all over the MCPS landscape no amount of child education and development theory, power point presentations, smoke screens, secrecy, nontransparency, clandestine policies can cover up what is a simple farce masquerading as mathematics education (for this 5-year-old in question). Many parents find it hard to believe MCPS cannot find a mechanism to reach this particular 5-year-old at their math level. Are MCPS elementary math teachers in K-5 incompetent? Or are they forced to follow the lead of an incompetent Principal who may be following the lead of incompetent MCPS leadership? Each conspirator fearing backlash from above if they fail to tow the party line? Many parents are leery of speaking up and speaking their minds because the maturity level of those in MCPS schools assures a backlash against their children and many want to spare their children the psychological trauma of system vindictiveness. Parents simply put down their arms and take matters into their own hands ... or the hands of "outside tutors"...resigned to public school (MCPS) as a vehicle for developing friendships (MCPS teachers serving as 6 hour/day baby sitters) with the most important education (academic and intellectual challenge) occurring outside of the MCPS classroom (e.g., online and offline education). For many in MCPS the real education of their children occurs on the weekends (and evenings) ... ironically in many of the MCPS brick and mortar school buildings! MCPS is slowly transforming itself into a $2 billion/year massive after care social service with the teachers relegated to baby sitters...the Principal, the head baby sitter.

Head Baby Sitter sued!



http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/03/20/kemp-mill-elementary-teachers-file-suit-against-alleged-bully-principal/

The OP is right. GTA couldn't get support form even a small fraction of parents. PP--not even one percent of those labeled have commented. 104 comments? You lost--just admit it that parents are fed up with the divisive ways of the new GTA administration. When did you guys get elected? What have you done with the money? Just stop attacking parents and get your leaders to stop emailing everyone in MCPS and the county council at the drop of a hat.

I do not really give a damn about the GTA, what you think about the GTA or whether you care about opportunities for your children to get a challenging education in MCPS. There are parents who do care their children get appropriate and challenging instruction in school (MCPS). Many of us have no where to turn for help. Some of us do not give a damn about your infatuation with "gifted" labels. We do give a damn if a 5-year-old child with mastery of addition, subtraction, division and multiplication is sitting in a MCPS classroom with 25 others simply counting up to 100 all day long for 2-3 years. When situations like this occur all over the MCPS landscape no amount of child education and development theory, power point presentations, smoke screens, secrecy, nontransparency, clandestine policies can cover up what is a simple farce masquerading as mathematics education (for this 5-year-old in question). Many parents find it hard to believe MCPS cannot find a mechanism to reach this particular 5-year-old at their math level. Are MCPS elementary math teachers in K-5 incompetent? Or are they forced to follow the lead of an incompetent Principal who may be following the lead of incompetent MCPS leadership? Each conspirator fearing backlash from above if they fail to tow the party line? Many parents are leery of speaking up and speaking their minds because the maturity level of those in MCPS schools assures a backlash against their children and many want to spare their children the psychological trauma of system vindictiveness. Parents simply put down their arms and take matters into their own hands ... or the hands of "outside tutors"...resigned to public school (MCPS) as a vehicle for developing friendships (MCPS teachers serving as 6 hour/day baby sitters) with the most important education (academic and intellectual challenge) occurring outside of the MCPS classroom (e.g., online and offline education). For many in MCPS the real education of their children occurs on the weekends (and evenings) ... ironically in many of the MCPS brick and mortar school buildings! MCPS is slowly transforming itself into a $2 billion/year massive after care social service with the teachers relegated to baby sitters...the Principal, the head baby sitter.

Anonymous wrote:Whatever 7:34 - you obviously have an axe to grind.
I didn't see a petition by the "other side" and I think the comments submitted were quite thoughtful. 100 isn't a lot out of the entire county, but frankly I hadn't even heard about the forum until a couple weeks ago (thanks to this board).

We don't have an ax to grind. We are pointing out that some of the pro GTA folks don't make sense. You found out about the forum from this board. That speaks volumes--you hadn't been to the school website which has been advertising the heck out of the forum http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/ .

Please don't pick on others ... we are just trying to show you that you are hurting yourselves with your comments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever 7:34 - you obviously have an axe to grind.
I didn't see a petition by the "other side" and I think the comments submitted were quite thoughtful. 100 isn't a lot out of the entire county, but frankly I hadn't even heard about the forum until a couple weeks ago (thanks to this board).

I heard from a magnet teacher(a very smart one) in my DC's middle school that the magnet teachers found out about the GT forum only 2 days ago when the coordinator sent a notice. That is how it has been advertised. Not every teacher/parent is active in pulling information. It is unfortunate but it is true.

Look your teacher didn't bother to look at her own employer's website http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/ which has been advertising the heck out of the forum. Why don't you send the teachers name to MCPS and explain what (s)he said?

MCPS can't cater to everyone with their head in the sand. As for the posters who found about the GT forum from this list ... why not spend the time you hang around here signing up for the MCPS newsletter and looking at the MCPS website? I just don't get you GTA types. If you want to know about the school system go to the system website--tell your "smart" magnet teachers to do the same.

100 comments is a teeny weeny number out of the kids labeled as GT by the system. You are not doing any favors for the GTA by emphasizing this fact.

This whole thing has made GT parents look bad.

Anonymous wrote:Whatever 7:34 - you obviously have an axe to grind.
I didn't see a petition by the "other side" and I think the comments submitted were quite thoughtful. 100 isn't a lot out of the entire county, but frankly I hadn't even heard about the forum until a couple weeks ago (thanks to this board).

I heard from a magnet teacher(a very smart one) in my DC's middle school that the magnet teachers found out about the GT forum only 2 days ago when the coordinator sent a notice. That is how it has been advertised. Not every teacher/parent is active in pulling information. It is unfortunate but it is true.

Whatever 7:34 - you obviously have an axe to grind.
I didn't see a petition by the "other side" and I think the comments submitted were quite thoughtful. 100 isn't a lot out of the entire county, but frankly I hadn't even heard about the forum until a couple weeks ago (thanks to this board).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here are some facts

1. the GTA got about 104 comments for the Super's forum. Some comments were multiple comments from the same person, some were from people who weren't in our system! Even if all those commenters were counted it is still barely the number of parents of an incoming magnet class.
2. take out the comments that supported magnets and centers and you don't even have enough to claim anything.

this was truly a dumb idea.

This posts seems delusional. The reality is volunteering and advocating will never get 100% attendance. Our local elemenatry school probably has about 400-500 kids. Only 10/15 parents are the ones who are regulars in PTA meetings and they do a tremendous job representing all parents in all events. It drains them for sure, but the school cannot expect 100% parents participation in arranging the events etc. Same with the school my kids attend for magnet programs. Only a handful of magnet parents run all the events.

It is not a question of quantity but quality. Did you read the comments. If people waited to advocate an idea until it is popular, this country would still have slaves.

BTW magnet and center kids are also identified as GT (their subset is called HG). So, if they did not end up in magnet program, they will suffer a great deal in local schools. Even in middle school magnet program, the non-magnet classes need to have ability grouping. Don't even get me started with all the stress parents and kids go through for magnet testing before they are accepted due to the terrifying fear of the kind of education they will get in local school.

The OP is right. GTA couldn't get support form even a small fraction of parents. PP--not even one percent of those labeled have commented. 104 comments? You lost--just admit it that parents are fed up with the divisive ways of the new GTA administration. When did you guys get elected? What have you done with the money? Just stop attacking parents and get your leaders to stop emailing everyone in MCPS and the county council at the drop of a hat.

Anonymous wrote:
Here are some facts

1. the GTA got about 104 comments for the Super's forum. Some comments were multiple comments from the same person, some were from people who weren't in our system! Even if all those commenters were counted it is still barely the number of parents of an incoming magnet class.
2. take out the comments that supported magnets and centers and you don't even have enough to claim anything.

this was truly a dumb idea.

This posts seems delusional. The reality is volunteering and advocating will never get 100% attendance. Our local elemenatry school probably has about 400-500 kids. Only 10/15 parents are the ones who are regulars in PTA meetings and they do a tremendous job representing all parents in all events. It drains them for sure, but the school cannot expect 100% parents participation in arranging the events etc. Same with the school my kids attend for magnet programs. Only a handful of magnet parents run all the events.

It is not a question of quantity but quality. Did you read the comments. If people waited to advocate an idea until it is popular, this country would still have slaves.

BTW magnet and center kids are also identified as GT (their subset is called HG). So, if they did not end up in magnet program, they will suffer a great deal in local schools. Even in middle school magnet program, the non-magnet classes need to have ability grouping. Don't even get me started with all the stress parents and kids go through for magnet testing before they are accepted due to the terrifying fear of the kind of education they will get in local school.

+1.
We moved from an eastern school to a western school. in the eastern school (which was wonderful by the way), the kids were grouped by ability. All the high achieving kids were pulled out for math AND reading and their teachers were fully trained and used the William and Mary curriculum. This approach worked and the school's test scores went up, presumably because every child got more attention at their level.
In our western school, there was no such grouping, except for Math so dc would end up with a reading group of two. Granted there was more uniformity amongst the kids in the western school but I believe the eastern school's approach was better.
I know this isn't true of all schools in the eastern side but I agree with the previous poster - whether you live on the east side or west side, all our kids would benefit from grouping and it does not require extra resources (except teacher training). They are doing it in Math - why not in other subjects. Let's stand together.