Anonymous
03/27/2012 21:24
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
This thread is really sad. The lack of empathy and the gleeful embracing of ignorance... it's Sarah Palin-esque. Is it really so hard to learn the term neurotypical? And, no, my kids do not have 504s or IEPs, so I am not just overreacting in defense of my own snowflake. I am just a "normal person" with a little compassion who thinks that all children have the right to an education and that those with challenges deserve support, not just from the system but from parents and their peers.
Anonymous
03/25/2012 00:03
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:sounds like another 2E parent telling the rest of us how only their children are gifted and everyone else got into AAP by prepping. can't you people give it a rest.
Not saying all 2E kids are gifted and rest were all prepped but maybe there is some truth that lots of normal kids were prepped, more so than 2e kids are.
Anonymous
03/24/2012 22:05
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
sounds like another 2E parent telling the rest of us how only their children are gifted and everyone else got into AAP by prepping. can't you people give it a rest.
Anonymous
03/24/2012 21:43
Subject: Re:Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll admit I get a little confused about "twice exceptional" kids in AAP. If a child is capable of above-level work only while receiving accomodations, are they really "gifted?"
Yes they still are gifted. Because giftedness measures potential ability, not proven ability. I think the public school system feels that by providing some support some children can go on to accomplish a lot and they think it could be a disservice to society to not enable these children to contribute more. I think everybody knows by now that Einstein, Edison, etc...had significant problems who may have needed IEP's today.
We also know that without this assistance they still achieved greatness. Still doesn't mean they would belong in a current AAP program. I'm also guessing 99.999999% of the kids in AAP with IEPs are no Einstein's.
The bigger open secret out there is that half of the kids in AAP without IEPs certainly aren't Einsteins either. Their parents just coached them to death to get in and if they're quiet and well-behaved they make the GBRS cut. So there's no need to be so smug.
This is actually what I'm noticing too - lots of well behaved and obedient children whose parents have coached them to do well on the Cog At tests. I can't tell you how I know this, but I've seen their work in the classroom and they are just above average-bright children but not exceptionally creative or gifted. Even with an AAP education, I doubt they will be able to go on becoming creative geniuses in life such as the Einsteins or Edisons of the world. They likely may not even become exceptionally high achievers. It is a shame that it is these children's parents who complain the most about the others who are legitimately potential creative geniuses.
Anonymous
03/24/2012 15:40
Subject: Re:Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll admit I get a little confused about "twice exceptional" kids in AAP. If a child is capable of above-level work only while receiving accomodations, are they really "gifted?"
Yes they still are gifted. Because giftedness measures potential ability, not proven ability. I think the public school system feels that by providing some support some children can go on to accomplish a lot and they think it could be a disservice to society to not enable these children to contribute more. I think everybody knows by now that Einstein, Edison, etc...had significant problems who may have needed IEP's today.
We also know that without this assistance they still achieved greatness. Still doesn't mean they would belong in a current AAP program. I'm also guessing 99.999999% of the kids in AAP with IEPs are no Einstein's.
No, you're not understanding what I meant. When I said Einstein and Edison likely would have needed IEP's today, I wasn't saying that therefore most kids in AAP today need IEP's. What I meant was that by eliminating special needs but very smart kids you are preventing these potential geniuses from contributing more to our society. And Einstein and Edison did terribly in school precisely because they didn't have the support they needed early on. Had they received the support they required, perhaps they could have made their contributions earlier or perhaps they could have made even greater contributions.
+1.
And for every Einstein or Edison, there are tons of similar kids who didn't make it precisely because they didn't have that level of support.
Anonymous
03/24/2012 15:38
Subject: Re:Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll admit I get a little confused about "twice exceptional" kids in AAP. If a child is capable of above-level work only while receiving accomodations, are they really "gifted?"
Yes they still are gifted. Because giftedness measures potential ability, not proven ability. I think the public school system feels that by providing some support some children can go on to accomplish a lot and they think it could be a disservice to society to not enable these children to contribute more. I think everybody knows by now that Einstein, Edison, etc...had significant problems who may have needed IEP's today.
We also know that without this assistance they still achieved greatness. Still doesn't mean they would belong in a current AAP program. I'm also guessing 99.999999% of the kids in AAP with IEPs are no Einstein's.
The bigger open secret out there is that half of the kids in AAP without IEPs certainly aren't Einsteins either. Their parents just coached them to death to get in and if they're quiet and well-behaved they make the GBRS cut. So there's no need to be so smug.
Anonymous
03/22/2012 14:59
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:all children do not benefit from inclusion. maybe the special needs kids do... but the others don't. my child is forced to sit there while the kids act strange and have all these extra aides repeating things, taking them in and out of the classroom.
Sure they do. The typical knee jerk reaction is to assume normal kids will be negatively affected by disabled kids in the classroom. But if you do a bit of research you'll find that this just isn't true. Read the link below. So you have to dig deep into your conscience to see if what you're thinking and feeling is just frustration borne out of discrimination and intolerance for different children.
http://bsnpta.org/geeklog/public_html//article.php?story=Inclusion_and_Nondisabled_Students
No they don't. SN parents like to say that it's good for everyone. It isn't... it's good for your child. And that's fine.... that's what you're concerned about. But you don't need to infer that people are being intolerant. I advocate for my DC just like you do for yours, and for my DC inclusion classrooms have just meant trouble.
You said inclusion doesn't benefit your normal children. I provided some evidence to suggest that it, in fact, does. Now it's your turn to provide equally credible research to suggest it hurts nondisabled children. If you can't, then I am left to wonder why on earth you protest inclusion so much. Without any supportive evidence and without any reason to protest inclusion, I am left to believe that it must be out of intolerance and discrimination.
Anonymous
03/22/2012 14:55
Subject: Re:Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll admit I get a little confused about "twice exceptional" kids in AAP. If a child is capable of above-level work only while receiving accomodations, are they really "gifted?"
Yes they still are gifted. Because giftedness measures potential ability, not proven ability. I think the public school system feels that by providing some support some children can go on to accomplish a lot and they think it could be a disservice to society to not enable these children to contribute more. I think everybody knows by now that Einstein, Edison, etc...had significant problems who may have needed IEP's today.
We also know that without this assistance they still achieved greatness. Still doesn't mean they would belong in a current AAP program. I'm also guessing 99.999999% of the kids in AAP with IEPs are no Einstein's.
No, you're not understanding what I meant. When I said Einstein and Edison likely would have needed IEP's today, I wasn't saying that therefore most kids in AAP today need IEP's. What I meant was that by eliminating special needs but very smart kids you are preventing these potential geniuses from contributing more to our society. And Einstein and Edison did terribly in school precisely because they didn't have the support they needed early on. Had they received the support they required, perhaps they could have made their contributions earlier or perhaps they could have made even greater contributions.
Anonymous
03/22/2012 12:53
Subject: Re:Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll admit I get a little confused about "twice exceptional" kids in AAP. If a child is capable of above-level work only while receiving accomodations, are they really "gifted?"
Yes they still are gifted. Because giftedness measures potential ability, not proven ability. I think the public school system feels that by providing some support some children can go on to accomplish a lot and they think it could be a disservice to society to not enable these children to contribute more. I think everybody knows by now that Einstein, Edison, etc...had significant problems who may have needed IEP's today.
We also know that without this assistance they still achieved greatness. Still doesn't mean they would belong in a current AAP program. I'm also guessing 99.999999% of the kids in AAP with IEPs are no Einstein's.
[/list]Who cares. Send them all to the AAP center. They fit right in.
[list]Beats having them in my kids class.
Anonymous
03/22/2012 12:46
Subject: Re:Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll admit I get a little confused about "twice exceptional" kids in AAP. If a child is capable of above-level work only while receiving accomodations, are they really "gifted?"
Yes they still are gifted. Because giftedness measures potential ability, not proven ability. I think the public school system feels that by providing some support some children can go on to accomplish a lot and they think it could be a disservice to society to not enable these children to contribute more. I think everybody knows by now that Einstein, Edison, etc...had significant problems who may have needed IEP's today.
We also know that without this assistance they still achieved greatness. Still doesn't mean they would belong in a current AAP program. I'm also guessing 99.999999% of the kids in AAP with IEPs are no Einstein's.
[/list]Who cares. Send them all to the AAP center. They fit right in.
Anonymous
03/22/2012 12:41
Subject: Re:Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll admit I get a little confused about "twice exceptional" kids in AAP. If a child is capable of above-level work only while receiving accomodations, are they really "gifted?"
Yes they still are gifted. Because giftedness measures potential ability, not proven ability. I think the public school system feels that by providing some support some children can go on to accomplish a lot and they think it could be a disservice to society to not enable these children to contribute more. I think everybody knows by now that Einstein, Edison, etc...had significant problems who may have needed IEP's today.
We also know that without this assistance they still achieved greatness. Still doesn't mean they would belong in a current AAP program. I'm also guessing 99.999999% of the kids in AAP with IEPs are no Einstein's.
Anonymous
03/22/2012 12:08
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If a child is twice exceptional and has made it in AAP but also has an IEP, do parents get angry about that? Why? Inclusion is a basic public school philosophy and IEP's level the playing field, they don't take away anything the neuro typical children need. [list]No beef here. Send them all to AAP]
Anonymous
03/22/2012 11:58
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:If a child is twice exceptional and has made it in AAP but also has an IEP, do parents get angry about that? Why? Inclusion is a basic public school philosophy and IEP's level the playing field, they don't take away anything the neuro typical children need. [/quote No beef here. Send them all to AAP]
Anonymous
03/22/2012 05:35
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:all children do not benefit from inclusion. maybe the special needs kids do... but the others don't. my child is forced to sit there while the kids act strange and have all these extra aides repeating things, taking them in and out of the classroom.
Sure they do. The typical knee jerk reaction is to assume normal kids will be negatively affected by disabled kids in the classroom. But if you do a bit of research you'll find that this just isn't true. Read the link below. So you have to dig deep into your conscience to see if what you're thinking and feeling is just frustration borne out of discrimination and intolerance for different children.
http://bsnpta.org/geeklog/public_html//article.php?story=Inclusion_and_Nondisabled_Students
No they don't. SN parents like to say that it's good for everyone. It isn't... it's good for your child. And that's fine.... that's what you're concerned about. But you don't need to infer that people are being intolerant. I advocate for my DC just like you do for yours, and for my DC inclusion classrooms have just meant trouble.
Not the PP you're responding to but I can assure you that given the legal history of education, if inclusion negatively impacted 'normal' kids disproportionately it would not be allowed. Since you've not done well articulating what you perceive is inclusion's negative impact on your DC's education, it's no wonder you've had no success in changing things at your school. You're arguments are not based in fact or grounded in research. If you could document the negative impact, as was done for exclusion of SN kids, you could join similar minded parents and file a legal case. It's what parents of SN kids did.....think of all the 'normal' kids you'd be serving.......
Anonymous
03/21/2012 23:39
Subject: Anger towards twice exceptional kids getting benefits?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:all children do not benefit from inclusion. maybe the special needs kids do... but the others don't. my child is forced to sit there while the kids act strange and have all these extra aides repeating things, taking them in and out of the classroom.
Sure they do. The typical knee jerk reaction is to assume normal kids will be negatively affected by disabled kids in the classroom. But if you do a bit of research you'll find that this just isn't true. Read the link below. So you have to dig deep into your conscience to see if what you're thinking and feeling is just frustration borne out of discrimination and intolerance for different children.
http://bsnpta.org/geeklog/public_html//article.php?story=Inclusion_and_Nondisabled_Students
No they don't. SN parents like to say that it's good for everyone. It isn't... it's good for your child. And that's fine.... that's what you're concerned about. But you don't need to infer that people are being intolerant. I advocate for my DC just like you do for yours, and for my DC inclusion classrooms have just meant trouble.