Here is Dr. Starr's email: Joshua_Starr@mcpsmd.org. Write to him directly. The BOE email is: BOE@mcpsmd.org. Write to them too.

I am not sure what PP means by "magnet school testing has no bearing on the GT identification." It does!! Global Screening is used to find students who are GT and then they are tested for magnets.

I think there may be students above the 90th percentile in the regular classroom but they are such a small amount and we can't lump them with the well prepared math and English group. What the well prepared group wants and needs is different what Gt kids need.

The Lake Wobegon crowd is different from GT and I think getting in with that group is a mistake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the GT issue has been really confused. The people who want to label their kids GT because they read or do math above the grade level are really messing up GT advocacy.

Look at the messy opposition to GT. It is against the above grade group. NOT AGAINST GT. GT gets pulled in because the ABOVE GRADE people want the GT label for their children.

Anyway, I don't understand the GTA wanting private homeschoolers and private school parents to join their numbers. I know, I know, some of us have children in both public and private. But this is a bout a public school programs and it belongs in public school programs.

GT is about children who learn differently, right? So, don't let the GTA pull you into their above grade reading = GT nonsense. These folks give GT a bad name and let real GT get attacked by their shenanigans. Don't let yourself get dragged into acting like self absorbed, entitled bullies.

I understand this, but maybe we just need a different word than GT. There is a problem mostly in the eastern side of the county where children who are performing above grade level -- whether or not they are considered gifted -- are not getting adequate instruction because their schools are doing away with tracking/honors classes and they are being placed in classes that are too easy for them. People are trying to use the upcoming gifted forum to advocate for these children. I think they have a point and their children's needs should be addressed in a way that doesn't sidetrack "real GT," however that is defined. I'm not sure what the "self-absorbed, entitled bullies" refers to, but I wonder what you would have these parents do when their children are performing well above grade level but their schools have no classes for them?

I would love if we MCPS can have policies to define each segment of preparedness, like “below grade level by one year” , “below grade level by 6 months”, “on grade level”, “above grade level by 6 months”, “above grade level by a year”, “above grade level by two years” etc. But I guess we will still have issues with that. The other issue would be even if MCPS can identify everyone at the most granular level, what good will the identification be if MCPS does not provide instructions for each group? This range is real, the kids of all these categories exist in neighborhood schools now.

What we want is MCPS to acknowledge the reality and agree to come up with solutions to teach everyone; not teaching the kids to test or a few magnet programs will do. The best education would be to set up the schools Montessori style, teaching the kids based on their ability and preparedness and not based on their age. That way each kid will be tested each year for readiness in each subject and placed in the right class for the next school year. What a world of difference that would to do to our education system. Can we agree to fight for this and be there in the meeting on March 22 at Magruders HS?

Anonymous wrote:Thank. I'll have to think a little more about the above-grade vs GT distinction, which I hadn't given much thought to, thanks for pointing it out.

IMO, if a poster's kid is really gifted, she'd feel less need to be arrogant about giftedness. The lady doth protest too much, and all that.

My worry is that our issues don't naturally inspire sympathy. So when one of our number identifies herself with GT issues and then is rude, arrogant and entitled, I cringe.

I am not sure who you are thanking and which lady you think is arrogant. However I am glad that you are thinking through these issues. In MCPS there are several problems related to “not challenging every kid” whether the kid is just above average, gifted at 90%tile or highly gifted. This whole spectrum (I am simplifying to only three categories) of needs is only identified through the “GT” testing at 2nd grade.

Yes there is magnet school testing, but magnet school testing has no bearing on the GT identification. Anyone can apply to magnet schools GT or not, some parents with highly gifted students chose not to apply, there not enough seats in the magnet programs, and the selection process is very complicated and closed door. So there is no guarantee that “all and only” highly gifted student will get in. MCPS gives an illusion of highly giftedness of the magnet accepted students because of relatively low number of students that get accepted. In fact, most of the parents whose kids get accepted into magnet program rarely question their kids’ giftedness (I have kids in magnet schools, so I know many parents of this kind). In the end, neighborhood schools are left with a big mix of just above average, gifted at 90%tile or highly gifted students along with below average and just average students. All these students need specific instructions for the complete 6 hours they spend in school and the schools are gradually failing in it due to NCLB and Curriculum 2.0.

If we keep discussing whether the definition of “GT” is matching the purist view, we will be in the “analysis paralysis” and miss the main point. The main issue is all kids in MCPS public schools needs to be challenged at their ability and preparedness level. There is enough justified attention for the kids who are below grade level. The kids, who are at just the grade level, will have no problem in regular class. What about rest of the kids who range from 60%tile to maybe 98%tile left in the home schools? We need to join together to advocate for policies to challenge them in public schools. Are you willing to do that?

Anonymous wrote:I think that the GT issue has been really confused. The people who want to label their kids GT because they read or do math above the grade level are really messing up GT advocacy.

Look at the messy opposition to GT. It is against the above grade group. NOT AGAINST GT. GT gets pulled in because the ABOVE GRADE people want the GT label for their children.

Anyway, I don't understand the GTA wanting private homeschoolers and private school parents to join their numbers. I know, I know, some of us have children in both public and private. But this is a bout a public school programs and it belongs in public school programs.

GT is about children who learn differently, right? So, don't let the GTA pull you into their above grade reading = GT nonsense. These folks give GT a bad name and let real GT get attacked by their shenanigans. Don't let yourself get dragged into acting like self absorbed, entitled bullies.

I understand this, but maybe we just need a different word than GT. There is a problem mostly in the eastern side of the county where children who are performing above grade level -- whether or not they are considered gifted -- are not getting adequate instruction because their schools are doing away with tracking/honors classes and they are being placed in classes that are too easy for them. People are trying to use the upcoming gifted forum to advocate for these children. I think they have a point and their children's needs should be addressed in a way that doesn't sidetrack "real GT," however that is defined. I'm not sure what the "self-absorbed, entitled bullies" refers to, but I wonder what you would have these parents do when their children are performing well above grade level but their schools have no classes for them?

Anonymous wrote:I think that the GT issue has been really confused. The people who want to label their kids GT because they read or do math above the grade level are really messing up GT advocacy.

Look at the messy opposition to GT. It is against the above grade group. NOT AGAINST GT. GT gets pulled in because the ABOVE GRADE people want the GT label for their children.

Anyway, I don't understand the GTA wanting private homeschoolers and private school parents to join their numbers. I know, I know, some of us have children in both public and private. But this is a bout a public school programs and it belongs in public school programs.

GT is about children who learn differently, right? So, don't let the GTA pull you into their above grade reading = GT nonsense. These folks give GT a bad name and let real GT get attacked by their shenanigans. Don't let yourself get dragged into acting like self absorbed, entitled bullies.

Do not get sucked into "Divide and rule" philosophy this post is trying to make. Yes "GT" in MCPS means all kids who need above grade level education which MCPS does not provide in the local school. Until we can change the id to "Above Average" or "Accelerated" or "Prepared" or whatever that is the only id which comprehensive and precise. Until the identification procedure changes, let us advocate for all our kids together. The more we try to split hair over who is GT and who is not the more our kids will lose. I hope we understand that we need one another in this game called MCPS education.

BTW, is not GTA being inclusive to invite private and homeschooler to speak about challenges they face with MCPS related to education that they chose the alternatives. Most people would not want to homeschool or pay for private school if MCPS can provide challenging education to each and every kid. That is the fight we should focus on. GTA is not the villain here, MCPS and BOE are!

Thank. I'll have to think a little more about the above-grade vs GT distinction, which I hadn't given much thought to, thanks for pointing it out.

IMO, if a poster's kid is really gifted, she'd feel less need to be arrogant about giftedness. The lady doth protest too much, and all that.

My worry is that our issues don't naturally inspire sympathy. So when one of our number identifies herself with GT issues and then is rude, arrogant and entitled, I cringe.

I think that the GT issue has been really confused. The people who want to label their kids GT because they read or do math above the grade level are really messing up GT advocacy.

Look at the messy opposition to GT. It is against the above grade group. NOT AGAINST GT. GT gets pulled in because the ABOVE GRADE people want the GT label for their children.

Anyway, I don't understand the GTA wanting private homeschoolers and private school parents to join their numbers. I know, I know, some of us have children in both public and private. But this is a bout a public school programs and it belongs in public school programs.

GT is about children who learn differently, right? So, don't let the GTA pull you into their above grade reading = GT nonsense. These folks give GT a bad name and let real GT get attacked by their shenanigans. Don't let yourself get dragged into acting like self absorbed, entitled bullies.

Anonymous wrote:Can we all please get back to discussing acceleration available to MCPS students or lack of it. If you are not interested, please sign off from the thread. Please do not snipe at one another and degrade the seriousness of this issue. Our interest will decide the future service for or students and future of MCPS education.

Actually, this is a serious problem for GT parents and I think it deserves some serious consideration. Some GT parents (not me) whine repeatedly on DCUM about how "nobody likes us" and "you can't talk about GT issues on DCUM."

But if we act like spoiled, entitled bullies, thanks to a few posters here who apparently can't control their inner baby -- then can anybody wonder why? Does anybody doubt that a poster like 00:37 is a playground bully? Or how about the "Did it ever dawn on you..." poster. Maybe it's the same person, I hope there's just one person who's so stupidly rude. But in any case, there's absolutely no call for this extreme rudeness.

I think this needs to be said and discussed. I object to posters like 00:37 personally, because s/he gives the rest of us GT parents a bad rep.

Can we all please get back to discussing acceleration available to MCPS students or lack of it. If you are not interested, please sign off from the thread. Please do not snipe at one another and degrade the seriousness of this issue. Our interest will decide the future service for or students and future of MCPS education.

Have you all finished with the school girl talk?

11:46 again. Or she's bringing over the debating style from the GTA yahoo group. That's a really charming group, too, you can really feel the love among the 8 people who post regularly on that forum.

Actually, I wonder if it's this: the rude "shut your trap" PP says she has kids in private school and reads that forum.

So maybe she's bringing the charming discussion style from the private school thread over to our public school thread? I say, No Thank You!

Anonymous wrote:

You're responding to me, and in fact I have kids in both private and public schools. And are you this rude in person?

You must have missed the post claiming the GTA forum is part of a nefarious plot to shut down private schools. Somebody did actually post that.

Are you the poster who is posting about this darn meeting everywhere? I just don't see why anybody feels they have to post something about MoCo GTA meetings in every gosh darn thread. I'm not OP, but I'm sick of it too. Re your snark above, the posters with kids in private and public (like you and me!) will see it here and don't need two notices. You and I, with kids in public and private schools, already saw this here, and obviously we're completely reasonable about these issues (although you seem to be having a bad day today).

Whoopi! Did it ever occur to you do not need to read the post twice in different places? You may choose not to read it and shut your trap.

OK then.... Quite often on DCUM -- more and more these days -- I find myself wondering why I'm on DCUM interacting with rude jerks who use the cover of anonymity to act like a$$es. That would be you.

I think, in fact, you've done me a favor. I'm now done with DCUM. No, I'm not going to do the traditional DCUM flame-out and start a "Screw All of You" thread on the Off-Topic forum.

But I do want to thank you! From the bottom of my heart! For being the wake-up call I needed to ask myself, why am I interacting with anonymous a$$es on DCUM.

This is a very important meeting and a very important cause for parents in a WIDE area of MCPS. I am not the one who posted the notice but I think you PP for doing so to help make sure that ANYONE who has been griping about the status quo currently re: acceleration/ability grouping is aware of this upcoming event.

I am not the PP, but the one posted in many thread (not in the private school thread though). The OP got annoyed. But I agree with the PP that you do not need to read every thread. My assumption is the threads are started by many different sets of parents facing many different issues with advanced educationin MCPS. All these different issues need to be brought up in the meeting and they all should attend. They all should comment at the GTA site too so that a written form of thoughts is preserved. In a two hours meeting with 50 people not all questions can be asked and not all comments be made, that is the reason to register them on the website. I am not an active GTA person.

However I have seen merit in what they are trying to do and hence am trying to help. I have no regret posting in various thread. That is what promoting a message is.