What on earth are you talking about? The post doesn't mention anything about choosing "underqualified candidates" to bring diversity to the HGC program -- specifically, racial but also equally pertinent to gender, socioeconomic, geographic, etc. So, in choosing among EQUALLY qualified candidates for a LIMITED number of spots, the County should take into account these factors in making the selection -- again, among EQUALLY qualifed candidates. Sorry, it just really grates my nerves that as soon as diversity is mentioned -- particularly when referring to race and gender -- the black/Latino or female student is automatically deemed less qualified than the white/Asian or male student. From my experiences and observations based on my own children's participation elementary, middle school, and high school magnet programs (which become less diverse at each level particularly in terms of race and socioeconomic status -- and I'm sure there's a reason for this too), ALL of the magnet students have been academically gifted -- regardless of whether he is a white student adding racial and gender diversity to Eastern or she is an Asian student adding racial diversity to Drew or he is a FARMs student adding socioeconomic diversity to Cold Springs . . .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very selective. Issues like race, gender are taken into account and weighted quite heavily from what I have observed and heard anecdotally. Is this the general impression?

That hasn't been my impression; it seems to me that the more diverse the comprehensive program, the less diverse HGC/magnet program. For example, Drew's student population is predominately black/Latino yet the HGC program at Drew is predominantly white/Asian (and it's rare for a Drew K-3 student to apply and be selected to move into the HGC program for Grades 4 and 5). So to the extent race is a factor in the HGC admission process, I think it is used to add diversity to the existing school population (i.e., to make student population "lighter" or "darker" depending on the location).

Starr presented some stats at the GT info meeting last week. According to him 58% of Asians, 46% of white, 28% of AA and 20% of Hispanic students in MCPS were recommended for above grade reading in 2nd grade. Our HGC has mostly Asian and white students which seems consistent with the above data - these are groups that tend to score well (for whatever reason) in MCPS. I can't imagine there is any other reason to have them so heavily represented in our HGC. I'm not sure whether AEI would pick an underqualified candidate simply to make the HGC "look" a certain color. I can also think of a couple of reasons why a child with above-median scores might not get picked. The school's rec. might shed some light. There is a lot of work at an HGC and the children have to be quite organized and focused to succeed. I am not sure if this is what happened in the instances cited on this thread but it is worth considering. Test scores matter but the teacher's rec. sheds some light on whether the child "needs" the challenge of the HGC and whether they have the appropriate study skills and habits. If that's not the case, I would consider an appeal.

Anonymous wrote:I was curious, how far back do they look on grades.

On the letter it said they consider grade 2 and first semester of grade 3.

I was curious, how far back do they look on grades.

Anonymous wrote:It is very selective. Issues like race, gender are taken into account and weighted quite heavily from what I have observed and heard anecdotally. Is this the general impression?

That hasn't been my impression; it seems to me that the more diverse the comprehensive program, the less diverse HGC/magnet program. For example, Drew's student population is predominately black/Latino yet the HGC program at Drew is predominantly white/Asian (and it's rare for a Drew K-3 student to apply and be selected to move into the HGC program for Grades 4 and 5). So to the extent race is a factor in the HGC admission process, I think it is used to add diversity to the existing school population (i.e., to make student population "lighter" or "darker" depending on the location).

Anonymous wrote:My experience with my two children is that the selection process is necessarily arbitrary because there are many more students who meet the so-called objective criteria -- grades, test scores, recommendations -- than there are spots available in the program or in the waitpool. For instance, my older child meet all of the criteria and was admitted, but two years letter, my younger child, who exceeded the admissions criteria (above median test scores and a perfect report card -- all Os, As, and Is -- was denied admission). But two years later, younger child was accepted at both Eastern and TP, while older child -- who attended and excelled in HGC program -- was denied placement at one and waitlisted at the other (after Level I appeal but never offered an actual seat).

This just kills me. We have had similar experiences.

Funny, my DD is at a HGC and it is very dominantly Asian and Indian. White and AA minority. It is an interesting mix never thought about if it was deliberate. I also wondered if they take more kids from over crowded schools... We had a huge number of acceptances from or very overcrowded ES last year.

My experience with my two children is that the selection process is necessarily arbitrary because there are many more students who meet the so-called objective criteria -- grades, test scores, recommendations -- than there are spots available in the program or in the waitpool. For instance, my older child meet all of the criteria and was admitted, but two years letter, my younger child, who exceeded the admissions criteria (above median test scores and a perfect report card -- all Os, As, and Is -- was denied admission). But two years later, younger child was accepted at both Eastern and TP, while older child -- who attended and excelled in HGC program -- was denied placement at one and waitlisted at the other (after Level I appeal but never offered an actual seat).

It is very selective. Issues like race, gender are taken into account and weighted quite heavily from what I have observed and heard anecdotally. Is this the general impression?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Test results drive most of the decision for acceptance/rejection.

Grades are somewhat subjective too - some teachers are easier graders than others.

Test results do not drive most of the decisions - I am told by AEI who handles selection process. In fact AEI has told many times that racial, gender equilibrium is one thing they look for. They would not put it in writing in the criteria - but they talk about it in information session. I have no idea how they achieve balance. AEI will not disclose clear cutoff points and they have said they take teachers recommendation into account. AEI will not also disclose the weights they assign to different factors (test result, grades, raven testing score from 2nd grade, MAP-R, teacher recommendation etc.). Hence the overall selection process is quite subjective and done on a case-to-case basis.

Forgot to add, I also have learned that the academic levels of students selected to each HGC vary beacuse of this subjective selection process.

Anonymous wrote:
Test results drive most of the decision for acceptance/rejection.

Grades are somewhat subjective too - some teachers are easier graders than others.

Test results do not drive most of the decisions - I am told by AEI who handles selection process. In fact AEI has told many times that racial, gender equilibrium is one thing they look for. They would not put it in writing in the criteria - but they talk about it in information session. I have no idea how they achieve balance. AEI will not disclose clear cutoff points and they have said they take teachers recommendation into account. AEI will not also disclose the weights they assign to different factors (test result, grades, raven testing score from 2nd grade, MAP-R, teacher recommendation etc.). Hence the overall selection process is quite subjective and done on a case-to-case basis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone know about appealing? our son's grades were above the median - would just like to know all of the factors that went into the decision.

Is he above median in all the subtests? If so, yes that would be very frustrating.

I agree, and I would certainly appeal in that case, but to be honest I wouldn't really expect to get in off appeal (I don't think test results are, or should be, the only thing they look at).

I believe test results and grades should be the only things that should be considered. I believe there should be clearly identified and communicated cutoff point too any students above the cutoff points should be admitted. This human factor like teacher recomendation, equity balance etc, along with limited slots is unfair to many Highly gifted kids who are left out in the loacl school without appropriate challenge. MCPS parents should fight the system to stop this unfairness.

I totally agree. Acceptance should be objective, not subjective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone know about appealing? our son's grades were above the median - would just like to know all of the factors that went into the decision.

Is he above median in all the subtests? If so, yes that would be very frustrating.

I agree, and I would certainly appeal in that case, but to be honest I wouldn't really expect to get in off appeal (I don't think test results are, or should be, the only thing they look at).

I believe test results and grades should be the only things that should be considered. I believe there should be clearly identified and communicated cutoff point too any students above the cutoff points should be admitted. This human factor like teacher recomendation, equity balance etc, along with limited slots is unfair to many Highly gifted kids who are left out in the loacl school without appropriate challenge. MCPS parents should fight the system to stop this unfairness.

Test results drive most of the decision for acceptance/rejection.

Grades are somewhat subjective too - some teachers are easier graders than others.

RE highly-able kids who are not admitted to HGCs and magnets - I completely agree that the situation is unacceptable. Those kids' needs must be addressed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone know about appealing? our son's grades were above the median - would just like to know all of the factors that went into the decision.

Is he above median in all the subtests? If so, yes that would be very frustrating.

I agree, and I would certainly appeal in that case, but to be honest I wouldn't really expect to get in off appeal (I don't think test results are, or should be, the only thing they look at).

I believe test results and grades should be the only things that should be considered. I believe there should be clearly identified and communicated cutoff point too any students above the cutoff points should be admitted. This human factor like teacher recomendation, equity balance etc, along with limited slots is unfair to many Highly gifted kids who are left out in the loacl school without appropriate challenge. MCPS parents should fight the system to stop this unfairness.

Keep in mind, that an appeal will only put you on the wait list if successful. They are not going to bump another student that was already accepted. If you plan to appeal be sure to have additional information since they have already looked at the initial info. Maybe ask to see the teacher rec?