Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 12:42     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?


This. And also, what if the diagnosis made prenatally was wrong. We were advised to consider terminating a pregnancy after prenatal testing revealed Trisomy 18. We were told that it was unlikely our daughter would be born alive. And that if she were, she would probably die within her first weeks of life. We were counseled to terminate to avoid putting our daughter through unnecessary pain.

They were wrong. I delivered a perfectly healthy baby. That baby is now 18. She is a national merit scholar who just received a full academic scholarship to college. Medicine isn't perfect. I can't help but remember that we considered ending the pregnancy. I am pro-life. But I will say that it is really easy to be pro-life when you aren't faced with the choice. I wavered on my pro-life stance and considered abortion after the diagnosis. I am thankful every single day that we chose to continue the pregnancy. I honestly wish I hadn't even been offered the choice.


National Merit scholarship winners haven't been chosen yet. Nice try, though, at making your story even more compelling.


Sorry, you are right. Semi-finalist. And based on that, she received a scholarship. Part of the scholarship was guaranteed to any semi-finalist or commended student. The rest was covered by academic scholarships. No "nice try". Why on earth would I need to make that up? The story would have been equally compelling had she not received the scholarship. I'm not even sure why I added that information except that (1) I am really proud of her and (2) It shows just how incorrect our initial diagnosis was.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 12:29     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?


This. And also, what if the diagnosis made prenatally was wrong. We were advised to consider terminating a pregnancy after prenatal testing revealed Trisomy 18. We were told that it was unlikely our daughter would be born alive. And that if she were, she would probably die within her first weeks of life. We were counseled to terminate to avoid putting our daughter through unnecessary pain.

They were wrong. I delivered a perfectly healthy baby. That baby is now 18. She is a national merit scholar who just received a full academic scholarship to college. Medicine isn't perfect. I can't help but remember that we considered ending the pregnancy. I am pro-life. But I will say that it is really easy to be pro-life when you aren't faced with the choice. I wavered on my pro-life stance and considered abortion after the diagnosis. I am thankful every single day that we chose to continue the pregnancy. I honestly wish I hadn't even been offered the choice.


National Merit scholarship winners haven't been chosen yet. Nice try, though, at making your story even more compelling.



That glitch makes me think that the story was made up entirely.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 12:10     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
As for the choice issue, all I can say is I'm glad I had the choice. I'm also glad that you were able to remain true to your own convictions.


This goes to the heart of the whole debate. That's what choice is about. When faced with the unimaginable, some women will choose one way, and some another way, but all will make the decision that they feel is best in their particular circumstance. Choice is about trusting women to make their own decisions.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 12:09     Subject: And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have a relative who works in a NICU. She said she could never make sense of the fact that they would be spending tens -- if not hundreds -- of thousands of dollars keeping pre-term babies alive in one end of the hospital, while they were aborting babies of the same gestational age in the other end.


This is really laughably ignorant, considering the number of second trimester abortions in this country is tiny and not usually performed in a hospital unless there's a medical necessity to save the mother's life. Maybe she's delusional?


I'm pro-choice, but abortion advocates have ensured that there are essentially NO limitations on abortion in this country. Why was there such a fight over "partial birth abortion" if it isnt used? What is the article about? Who's delusional here?


If you are really pro-choice you should educate yourself. It is totally untrue that there are "essentially NO limitations" on abortions in the US. Under Planned Parenthood v Casey, at the point of viability, the state's interest in protecting the fetus outweigh the rights of the woman to abortion. So states can (and have) banned post-viability abortions. And even for early abortions, the law allows states to impose a framework of limitations, such as parental notification, waiting periods, forced ultrasounds, etc etc etc. The fight over partial birth abortion, by the way, was so passionate because it interferes with medical care that a woman may need for her own life/health by telling the doctor exactly how he can/can't do surgery, based on factors other than his best medical judgment.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 12:07     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?


This. And also, what if the diagnosis made prenatally was wrong. We were advised to consider terminating a pregnancy after prenatal testing revealed Trisomy 18. We were told that it was unlikely our daughter would be born alive. And that if she were, she would probably die within her first weeks of life. We were counseled to terminate to avoid putting our daughter through unnecessary pain.

They were wrong. I delivered a perfectly healthy baby. That baby is now 18. She is a national merit scholar who just received a full academic scholarship to college. Medicine isn't perfect. I can't help but remember that we considered ending the pregnancy. I am pro-life. But I will say that it is really easy to be pro-life when you aren't faced with the choice. I wavered on my pro-life stance and considered abortion after the diagnosis. I am thankful every single day that we chose to continue the pregnancy. I honestly wish I hadn't even been offered the choice.


National Merit scholarship winners haven't been chosen yet. Nice try, though, at making your story even more compelling.

Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 12:06     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
These women were faced late in pregnancy with the knowledge that their babies were not developing propertly and would struggle and suffer and then die shortly after birth. They chose to end the pregnancy. If this happened to you, would you at least want the ability to consider that choice? I would.


I am the poster above who considered terminating after prenatal testing revealed Trisomy 18. I honestly wish I had never been offered the choice. I nearly ended the life of my perfectly healthy baby. The choice was agonizing. And I wish it had never been on the table. Unlike many pro-lifers, I have been there. It's really easy to be pro-life until you are facing the decision yourself. I am so thankful that I remained true to my convictions, but also very aware that on another day I could have made a very different choice. I was exhausted both emotionally and physically. I didn't have the ability to think clearly. I wish the option had never been offered.


I'm very happy to hear that your choice was a good one and that your daughter is doing so well. And maybe you feel now that you wish you had no choice in the matter back then because you wouldn't have had to agonize - I can see that. I think you were very fortunate. But each set of circumstances is different. Each diagnosis unique and more or less definitive. It's a very personal choice. But I'll emphasize again -- we have a choice. Thank goodness for that.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 12:02     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
These women were faced late in pregnancy with the knowledge that their babies were not developing propertly and would struggle and suffer and then die shortly after birth. They chose to end the pregnancy. If this happened to you, would you at least want the ability to consider that choice? I would.


I am the poster above who considered terminating after prenatal testing revealed Trisomy 18. I honestly wish I had never been offered the choice. I nearly ended the life of my perfectly healthy baby. The choice was agonizing. And I wish it had never been on the table. Unlike many pro-lifers, I have been there. It's really easy to be pro-life until you are facing the decision yourself. I am so thankful that I remained true to my convictions, but also very aware that on another day I could have made a very different choice. I was exhausted both emotionally and physically. I didn't have the ability to think clearly. I wish the option had never been offered.


There are two points here, the potential for misdiagnosis and the pro-choice/pro-life issue. In many circumstances, having the diagnosis be wrong is not an issue. My son's brain was half missing, and it wasn't going to appear overnight. There was no hope, and it's not like we relied on one ambiguous test to make this decision.

As for the choice issue, all I can say is I'm glad I had the choice. I'm also glad that you were able to remain true to your own convictions.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:52     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
These women were faced late in pregnancy with the knowledge that their babies were not developing propertly and would struggle and suffer and then die shortly after birth. They chose to end the pregnancy. If this happened to you, would you at least want the ability to consider that choice? I would.


I am the poster above who considered terminating after prenatal testing revealed Trisomy 18. I honestly wish I had never been offered the choice. I nearly ended the life of my perfectly healthy baby. The choice was agonizing. And I wish it had never been on the table. Unlike many pro-lifers, I have been there. It's really easy to be pro-life until you are facing the decision yourself. I am so thankful that I remained true to my convictions, but also very aware that on another day I could have made a very different choice. I was exhausted both emotionally and physically. I didn't have the ability to think clearly. I wish the option had never been offered.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:50     Subject: And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you feel bad, why not start a group to adopt unwanted babies? If you can guarantee adoption for unwanted babies, I'm sure they'll be less abortions.

But I think we all know that won't happen. People harp about saving babies, but nobody wants to take care of them after "saving" them.

And for people who claim to be "pro-life" and illegalize abortions... What are you going to do with the women who want to get an abortion? Throw them in jail? Fine them? (most of them are poor women).

Best solution is to keep it legal, offer counseling to avoid it, and every effort to support the mother during and after (if she changes her mind) birth (through childcare, food, education).

If America offered free childcare, birth control, and reproductive education to every women AND MEN, we could eliminate abortions that's not needed due to medical reasons.


More than half of all abortions are performed on women who were using birth control the month they got pregnant.

Birth control guarantees a demand for abortions; it does not prevent them.


Birth control reduces unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted pregnancies create the demand for abortion. Therefore, birth control reduces the demand for abortion. It's not rocket science. (And, where are your statistics from?)
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:45     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?


This is a question with a different set of circumstances. You could ask "what if" all day long. The point is that we have a right to make the choice that these women made in late term due to medical conditions.

These women were faced late in pregnancy with the knowledge that their babies were not developing propertly and would struggle and suffer and then die shortly after birth. They chose to end the pregnancy. If this happened to you, would you at least want the ability to consider that choice? I would.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:42     Subject: And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
The trials against late-terms abortionists in Philadelphia and Maryland include discoveries of corpses labeled 32 weeks and 36 weeks.


It really bothers me when people bring up the Gosnell case as if he is representative of all abortion providers. Lumping him in with all abortion providers is like saying that all pediatricians are like Dr. Earl Bradley of Delaware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Bradley) or that all plastic surgeons are like those unlicensed con artists that inject industrial-grade silicone into patients looking for a deal on plastic surgery (http://www.docshop.com/2007/10/16/why-do-americans...-to-unlicensed-plastic-surgery). Or that if we allow gay couples to marry, then we may as well also allow people to marry their pets. It's ignorant fearmongering and appealing to people's basest emotions. Just like serial killers and stranger abductions, these types of cases are horrifying and they make headlines. However, they are clearly not representative of all reproductive health care. The vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester by trained, dedicated physicians with zero complications. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of all abortions performed in the US, and they are not done just because Mom got tired of being pregnant. I am the PP who had to end my pregnancy at 20 weeks due to an infection in my uterus. I was induced and was in labor all day. The contractions stopped my baby's heart and she was born sleeping. We held her, named her, and had her baptized by the hospital chaplain. My doctors and nurses were nothing but compassionate and sensitive to our every need. I think if you were to talk to women who have actually been through it rather than relying on sensationalistic media articles or extremist websites, you'd hear stories similar to mine. www.aheartbreakingchoice.com has the stories of many women like me.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:40     Subject: And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have a relative who works in a NICU. She said she could never make sense of the fact that they would be spending tens -- if not hundreds -- of thousands of dollars keeping pre-term babies alive in one end of the hospital, while they were aborting babies of the same gestational age in the other end.


This is really laughably ignorant, considering the number of second trimester abortions in this country is tiny and not usually performed in a hospital unless there's a medical necessity to save the mother's life. Maybe she's delusional?


Or the poster is lying.


Or you're ignorant.

After 20 weeks the procedure usually happens in the hospital where the woman is supposed to deliver the baby. She has to go through the regular labor to deliver even if the dead baby is a still born.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:40     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Until you walk in my shoes, you really don't understand."


This. I also had to end my very much wanted pregnancy at 20 weeks because of a massive infection in my uterus. Later-term abortions make up a very small percentage of abortions performed, and they are not performed for "convenience." Pregnancy isn't always sunshine and rainbows - tragic situations can and do occur and heatrbreaking choices sometimes have to be made. These choices are between a woman, her family, her medical team, and God - they are no one else's business. I wouldn't wish what I went through on my worst enemy. I will be forever grateful for the compassionate and skilled doctors and nurses who helped me.


You put that very well. I also had to have an abortion at 20 weeks of a very much wanted pregnancy (IVF) because my baby had a fatal condition, detected at the 20 week ultrasound. It was unlikely he'd survive to term, and even if he did, impossible that he'd live for more than a few minutes after birth. As the PP said, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have no idea what the statistics are, but I have to imagine that many, if not most abortions performed around that time in a pregnancy are for similar reasons.


I'm so sorry for your loss - all of you. Any of us could be faced with the same circumstances and I, for one, feel grateful that we are enabled to choose.


What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?


Well, in my case at least, my son would have died almost immediately, if he even made it to term. So I really don't understand the point of your question, other than to be inflamatory.



I am another one as well. We ended a pregnancy at 22wks due to severe fetal anomaly.

You have no idea what you would choose if faced with our situations.
You think you do but you DO NOT.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:37     Subject: And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have a relative who works in a NICU. She said she could never make sense of the fact that they would be spending tens -- if not hundreds -- of thousands of dollars keeping pre-term babies alive in one end of the hospital, while they were aborting babies of the same gestational age in the other end.


This is really laughably ignorant, considering the number of second trimester abortions in this country is tiny and not usually performed in a hospital unless there's a medical necessity to save the mother's life. Maybe she's delusional?


Or the poster is lying.


The Born Alive Infants Protection Act was passed and signed into federal law based on the evidence and testimony of many nurses in hospitals across the country who witnessed abortions performed in hospitals on viable or possibly viable infants who were left to die. Some testified that they would hold and rock the little babies until they died.

I am tired of people saying "you're lying" or "that could never happen" because the truth is unpleasant or not often openly discussed because of an agenda.



Because only pro-choice people have an agenda.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2012 11:34     Subject: Re:And that's why I'll never understand why people kill little babies who were not born yet...
What if a diagnosis was missed prenatally, and discovered at birth? Would you give your newborn a lethal injection to the heart then? Or is it only compassionate when your child is still inside your body?


This. And also, what if the diagnosis made prenatally was wrong. We were advised to consider terminating a pregnancy after prenatal testing revealed Trisomy 18. We were told that it was unlikely our daughter would be born alive. And that if she were, she would probably die within her first weeks of life. We were counseled to terminate to avoid putting our daughter through unnecessary pain.

They were wrong. I delivered a perfectly healthy baby. That baby is now 18. She is a national merit scholar who just received a full academic scholarship to college. Medicine isn't perfect. I can't help but remember that we considered ending the pregnancy. I am pro-life. But I will say that it is really easy to be pro-life when you aren't faced with the choice. I wavered on my pro-life stance and considered abortion after the diagnosis. I am thankful every single day that we chose to continue the pregnancy. I honestly wish I hadn't even been offered the choice.