Anonymous
Post 12/29/2011 06:18     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
There is no proof in either the existence or lack of existence of a deity. For many non believers, things don't exist until there is a hypothesis that can be tested and evidence. With the available evidence, it seems far more likely that people invented a deity and afterlife for their own comfort.

We could debate this for infinity, but the truth is that we have the same information available to us and cane to a different conclusion.

NDEs are not proof of an afterlife. The answer for all things currently unexplained is not "it must be god".
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2011 00:52     Subject: Re:anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?


The problem with your hypothesis is that just about any mythos--from Poseidon, to Cthulhu, to Christ, to FSM, to No Gods At All--is equally likely given the evidence. It's nice you've found a story that gives you comfort though.


The problem I have with your posts is that you say that all of these things being true are "equally likely," but then you keep making statements to the effect that a belief in God is unequivocally false. If you admit that we truly don't know, then why aren't you open to the possibility that God does exist?
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 23:06     Subject: Re:anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?


The problem with your hypothesis is that just about any mythos--from Poseidon, to Cthulhu, to Christ, to FSM, to No Gods At All--is equally likely given the evidence. It's nice you've found a story that gives you comfort though.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 23:01     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are you certain there is a god/afterlife when there is no evidence of one?


None? No evidence at all? Really?


Sigh. No. That's why it's called faith. As far as God and an afterlife, such things are extremely unlikely, to put it mildly. But if they were to exist, "God" is every bit as likely to be perfectly evil as good, and the afterlife as likely to be horrific as blissful.

It's pretty to think otherwise, though.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 20:01     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well how then to explain the 2 out of body experiences I had while asleep? I wasn't traumatized and I fully experienced my spirit re-entering my body (saw it but mostly felt it), which was a really powerful and bizarre feeling. Before re-entry I remember receiving some types of training while in dreams - the first time I was being encouraged by other "people" to float higher and higher in the night sky using my mind. The other time I was in a battle with 2 other almost cartoonish characters and was asked a question about what the most powerful force in the universe was and I said love. I received a feeling that this was the answer those I was "battling" wanted to hear.

My grandmother had a NDE when she had a heart attack. She too was up at the ceiling and saw the doctors working on her. DH almost drown but had an NDE, saw the light and heard voices telling him it wasn't his time even though he was more drawn to the voices than to stay alive.

It's very fascinating and I've had enough experiences with dead family members to believe that the spirit continues on in some form or another.


astral travel/projection

very cool!


I did this while awake a few times. Granted, I was on a TON of LSD, but it was still a neato experience.



Check out the gov't. LSD experiments. You know they say that LSD opens up parts of our minds that we are too simple to access.


I am not the LSD poster, but I took quite a few trips back in college. It opened up my mind to things I never thought possible. One time, I was tripping and my friend was drunk off her ass. We were walking back to my dorm and I saw two guys standing on the sidewalk. I felt the need to stop and talk to them. Their eyes looked totally different than anyone else around me. Sure enough, they were tripping too. All I said was "are you?". They said "we are". That whole kaleidoscope eyes thing is totally true! If you were to sit on the outside and watch a group of tripping people, you would truly think they were crazy. However, if you were in the group that was tripping, you would realize you can speak without words. Unless you have done it, you can't understand it. I say that having been on both sides.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 19:53     Subject: Re:anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?


That's right. As long as it is a mystery, non-believers won't believe and believers will. Same goes with Ouiji boards, alien abductions, and reading chicken bones, but of course the believers don't believe in those things.

I get a God who expects obedience and love. A God who creates a universe that we can study in infinite detail, but fails to make his presence clearly and unequivocally known is really hard to fathom. In order to know God, you need faith. But faith is not an act of will, but a gift from God. OK so it isn't in our control. No wait, it is. You just have to "open your heart", which to a non-believer sounds like "you have to want to believe". If you want to believe in alien abductions, you may end up believing in them, but that does not mean they are real.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 19:51     Subject: Re:anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
I had a grand mal seizure in first grade, my heart stopped on the way to the hospital. My father was, thankfully, in the ambulance with me, and I remember "coming back" and seeing him as the first person. It was scary. I had another near-death experience a few years later, riding my bike along a very busy street and losing control - an unknown force took ahold of my steering wheel and slowly and gently turned the bike into the grass, away from all of the oncoming traffic. It was eery. I believe!
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 19:43     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Please share the material evidence of a deity with us.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 18:51     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:Why are you certain there is a god/afterlife when there is no evidence of one?


None? No evidence at all? Really?
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 18:14     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Why are you certain there is a god/afterlife when there is no evidence of one?
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 16:54     Subject: Re:anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
My grandfather had a NDE when he had a heart attack in his late 40s. He was pronounced dead, but he revived some time later. He was already a man of deep faith, so he felt no need to talk about the details of the experience, but he lived the next 30+ years with great peace, love, and joy.

For those with no faith, no metaphysical mystery will be great enough to instill awe. There are so many things about the human experience that defy understanding. I read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven with interest, and I've been meaning to take Heaven is for Real out of the library. I find the stories intriguing. But they are not necessary for my faith.

I do wonder about those who don't know or care about the possibility of an afterlife. The degree of confidence you must have in materialism goes far beyond the confidence most people have in God. Why so certain when you have no material evidence you are correct?
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 16:21     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
so strange to see this article in UK paper yday after reading these. Apparently he had a few of them himself before he died, made the video right before he died.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079098/Ben-Breedlove-Video-sick-teenager-life-1-week-died.html
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 11:25     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well how then to explain the 2 out of body experiences I had while asleep? I wasn't traumatized and I fully experienced my spirit re-entering my body (saw it but mostly felt it), which was a really powerful and bizarre feeling. Before re-entry I remember receiving some types of training while in dreams - the first time I was being encouraged by other "people" to float higher and higher in the night sky using my mind. The other time I was in a battle with 2 other almost cartoonish characters and was asked a question about what the most powerful force in the universe was and I said love. I received a feeling that this was the answer those I was "battling" wanted to hear.

My grandmother had a NDE when she had a heart attack. She too was up at the ceiling and saw the doctors working on her. DH almost drown but had an NDE, saw the light and heard voices telling him it wasn't his time even though he was more drawn to the voices than to stay alive.

It's very fascinating and I've had enough experiences with dead family members to believe that the spirit continues on in some form or another.


astral travel/projection

very cool!


I did this while awake a few times. Granted, I was on a TON of LSD, but it was still a neato experience.


Check out the gov't. LSD experiments. You know they say that LSD opens up parts of our minds that we are too simple to access.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 11:20     Subject: Re:anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:DH has had 4. 2 as a child, 2 as an adult. He is the most low key person I know as a result (unless there's a thunderstorm since a lightning strike was one of them.) It really helps him keep things in perspective, and as a result, me as well. He also had very humble beginnings (welfare, food stamps, sleeping on the floor as the house was too crowded) and while we have lots of "stuff" now, he knows it can be gone in an instant and is absolutely willing to do anything (legally) to make ends meet.


Wow. He should be featured on the science channel or something. 4 must be some kind of record.
Anonymous
Post 12/28/2011 10:24     Subject: anyone believe in near death experiences (NDE)?
Anonymous wrote:
I don't care about who here believes or disbelieves in the afterlife. The earlier poster described the ability to see into the future. That flat out defies the laws of physics. And, if it were true, it would mean that fate, not free will, determines what happens to us. And that is a pretty damaging blow to Christian religion.

So the way I see it, the poster shot a dart at both science and religion, without even knowing it.


I don't think it necessarily defies the laws of physics. But maybe you can explain it to me better (I mean that sincerely, I'm certainly not a scientist). However, the future is nothing but a plot point in the expanding universe. The actual physical location of something. And scientists just recently conducted an experiment that made diamond crystals exist in two places at once.

http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/07/diamonds-entangled-in-physics-feat/

Plus, most physicists now believe there are up to 11 dimensions, not just the 4 we think about in daily life. Stephen Hawking recently made a logical case that there are multiple universes with the possibility of different physical laws in each.

There is a LOT we don't know yet.