Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 19:33     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
meant to type:
Duh. What man is showering with his own children? Weird that little kids might be eye level of his package but i assume that is what pervs intend. DH should have said something and gotten the parents. yeah i didn't shower but ass naked with my kids.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 19:29     Subject: Re:What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I know "innocent until proven guilty'...but come on. What old man is continually showering with young boys that are not his own children? What if you found out your son's gym teacher was naked with your kid having 'play' in the shower. Sorry--adult males do not routinely have play at all hours of the night in the shower with numerous young boys.


I've been struggling with this a bit b/c my DH once walked into our club pool shower/ locker room where there was an older man naked showering with a younger kid (10ish) not his child but a close family friend. My DH said it was "weird" and made him uncomfortable, but the problem is - where is the crime? If we knew the kids parents, we probably would have tried to find them and say something, but otherwise, what are you to do? Especially since showering with a younger kid is not a crime (and let's face it, if it was an older woman showering with a younger girl in the locker room of a pool, most of us wouldn't bat an eye).

This whole S thing has really made me question though if we shouldn't have done more - and then - what more could we have done? Obviously, seeing people showering and witnessing a sexual assualt are two VERY different things. But I don't know if showering - in and of itself - is suspect. I kinda feel like it is. But the law doesn't make it a crime, so without more information, what exactly should people do when they witness it?


Duh. What man is showering with his own children? Weird little kids might be eye level of his package but i assume that is what pervs intend. DH should have said something and gotten the parents. yeah i didn't shower but ass naked with my kids.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 19:27     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:
Lawyers should feel free to jump in on this one, but my understanding is that indecent exposure requires someone to be naked where it is not appropriate. The shower and locker room are appropriate places to be naked. People don't usually get naked to play table tennis.


I'm the PP you replied to.

Wouldn't being in that place also have to be appropriate? E.g. it's appropriate for me to be topless when trying on bras. So, if I dragged some kid in the changing room and then took off my top that's OK? It's appropriate for me to have my pants removed in the bathroom, but it's not appropriate for me to take someone else's kid in the bathroom (we're talking the age of these boys, not a toddler you're babysitting and need to keep safe) in the first place.

I'm trying to think of a circumstance when I'd be OK with my 12 year old in a shower with an adult man. Maybe, possibly, it's someone I really trust (like my brother), they're coming out of the pool, the locker room is really crowded and there's no other free shower and others are waiting, and they keep their suits on . . . Maybe.

But in an empty locker room full of showers? Hell no. I guess I can see taking a kid to the pool, and having him get a glimpse of you while you're both changing. But getting into the same shower stall? I can't see how that's not illegal.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 19:23     Subject: Re:What if Sandusky is innocent?
I'm not a PA criminal lawyer, but it seems to me there must be charges that could be brought against S based on the creepy things he admitted to in the interview.
Here's one from VA:

§ 18.2-370.1. Taking indecent liberties with child by person in custodial or supervisory relationship; penalties.
A. Any person 18 years of age or older who, except as provided in § 18.2-370, maintains a custodial or supervisory relationship over a child under the age of 18 and is not legally married to such child and such child is not emancipated who, with lascivious intent, knowingly and intentionally (i) proposes that any such child feel or fondle the sexual or genital parts of such person or that such person feel or handle the sexual or genital parts of the child; or (ii) proposes to such child the performance of an act of sexual intercourse or any act constituting an offense under § 18.2-361; or
(iii) exposes his or her sexual or genital parts to such child; or (iv) proposes that any such child expose his or her sexual or genital parts to such person; or (v) proposes to the child that the child engage in sexual intercourse, sodomy or fondling of sexual or genital parts with another person; or (vi) sexually abuses the child as defined in § 18.2-67.10 (6), shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 19:02     Subject: Re:What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I know "innocent until proven guilty'...but come on. What old man is continually showering with young boys that are not his own children? What if you found out your son's gym teacher was naked with your kid having 'play' in the shower. Sorry--adult males do not routinely have play at all hours of the night in the shower with numerous young boys.


I've been struggling with this a bit b/c my DH once walked into our club pool shower/ locker room where there was an older man naked showering with a younger kid (10ish) not his child but a close family friend. My DH said it was "weird" and made him uncomfortable, but the problem is - where is the crime? If we knew the kids parents, we probably would have tried to find them and say something, but otherwise, what are you to do? Especially since showering with a younger kid is not a crime (and let's face it, if it was an older woman showering with a younger girl in the locker room of a pool, most of us wouldn't bat an eye).

This whole S thing has really made me question though if we shouldn't have done more - and then - what more could we have done? Obviously, seeing people showering and witnessing a sexual assualt are two VERY different things. But I don't know if showering - in and of itself - is suspect. I kinda feel like it is. But the law doesn't make it a crime, so without more information, what exactly should people do when they witness it?


Many of these showers with Sandusky were very late at night. Why were all of these boys in need of showers in the wee hours of the morning? If my neighbor were naked in a shower with my boys it would be the last time they ever saw him.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 16:08     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:S said he showered naked with young boys. S said he touched the legs of naked little boys while showering. S said he horseplayed with little boys in the shower. Finally, S said, but I never had sex with the boys. OP, come back when you can add 3 +1=4 and not 2.


Since when are these crimes?


Gosh, either you are dense or you may actually be a follower and participant of child sex trafficking. It is a big, organized and lucrative business. Your statement speaks volumes. EEEEEWWWWW.


They're not crimes. I'm not sure why you're calling the PP a child trafficker. Sandusky was probably advised on his answers by his attorney before the interview.


Really? Wasn't there a big case talked about here on DCUM where a teacher's husband got arrested for playing ping pong naked with other people's little boys?

I would think that getting naked with, and then touching, young boys who are in you care while you are working with them, would be indecent exposure at the least?


Lawyers should feel free to jump in on this one, but my understanding is that indecent exposure requires someone to be naked where it is not appropriate. The shower and locker room are appropriate places to be naked. People don't usually get naked to play table tennis.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 15:47     Subject: Re:What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:One of the things that has bothered me about all of the news/statements/information thus far is taht no one involved seems to doubt that its true. Paterno said "pray for those kids" or something like that, and no one has offered ANY sort of explanation like "we,, McQuery never liked Jerry because he said he was a crappy player, so I discounted what he told me..." (not that I expect them to at this point, but you get my point). No one involved seems to doubt that it is true. Makes my skin crawl.


yup. Because they knew it was true then and they know it's true now.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 15:45     Subject: Re:What if Sandusky is innocent?
One of the things that has bothered me about all of the news/statements/information thus far is taht no one involved seems to doubt that its true. Paterno said "pray for those kids" or something like that, and no one has offered ANY sort of explanation like "we,, McQuery never liked Jerry because he said he was a crappy player, so I discounted what he told me..." (not that I expect them to at this point, but you get my point). No one involved seems to doubt that it is true. Makes my skin crawl.

Besides, while not AS heinous at the allegations, a 55 man showering with 10 year old boys ought to be illegal. That's just wrong.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 15:44     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:S said he showered naked with young boys. S said he touched the legs of naked little boys while showering. S said he horseplayed with little boys in the shower. Finally, S said, but I never had sex with the boys. OP, come back when you can add 3 +1=4 and not 2.


Since when are these crimes?


Gosh, either you are dense or you may actually be a follower and participant of child sex trafficking. It is a big, organized and lucrative business. Your statement speaks volumes. EEEEEWWWWW.


They're not crimes. I'm not sure why you're calling the PP a child trafficker. Sandusky was probably advised on his answers by his attorney before the interview.


Really? Wasn't there a big case talked about here on DCUM where a teacher's husband got arrested for playing ping pong naked with other people's little boys?

I would think that getting naked with, and then touching, young boys who are in you care while you are working with them, would be indecent exposure at the least?


I'm assuming, although I could be wrong, that they probably showered together after doing physical exercise activity (ie football practice)? I couldn't imagine he took showers with them just for the purpose of taking showersat Penn State, though I could be completely wrong. I would imagine he would have had at least some sort of precursor activity.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 15:39     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
Sandusky was on TV, not in a court ie if he lies, nothing happens. Read the grand jury report.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 15:34     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:S said he showered naked with young boys. S said he touched the legs of naked little boys while showering. S said he horseplayed with little boys in the shower. Finally, S said, but I never had sex with the boys. OP, come back when you can add 3 +1=4 and not 2.


Since when are these crimes?


Gosh, either you are dense or you may actually be a follower and participant of child sex trafficking. It is a big, organized and lucrative business. Your statement speaks volumes. EEEEEWWWWW.


They're not crimes. I'm not sure why you're calling the PP a child trafficker. Sandusky was probably advised on his answers by his attorney before the interview.


Really? Wasn't there a big case talked about here on DCUM where a teacher's husband got arrested for playing ping pong naked with other people's little boys?

I would think that getting naked with, and then touching, young boys who are in you care while you are working with them, would be indecent exposure at the least?
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 14:56     Subject: Re:What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:I know "innocent until proven guilty'...but come on. What old man is continually showering with young boys that are not his own children? What if you found out your son's gym teacher was naked with your kid having 'play' in the shower. Sorry--adult males do not routinely have play at all hours of the night in the shower with numerous young boys.


I've been struggling with this a bit b/c my DH once walked into our club pool shower/ locker room where there was an older man naked showering with a younger kid (10ish) not his child but a close family friend. My DH said it was "weird" and made him uncomfortable, but the problem is - where is the crime? If we knew the kids parents, we probably would have tried to find them and say something, but otherwise, what are you to do? Especially since showering with a younger kid is not a crime (and let's face it, if it was an older woman showering with a younger girl in the locker room of a pool, most of us wouldn't bat an eye).

This whole S thing has really made me question though if we shouldn't have done more - and then - what more could we have done? Obviously, seeing people showering and witnessing a sexual assualt are two VERY different things. But I don't know if showering - in and of itself - is suspect. I kinda feel like it is. But the law doesn't make it a crime, so without more information, what exactly should people do when they witness it?
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 14:50     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
He's using the "I'm just a big kid/Michael Jackson" defense. Make no mistake, this man is a pedophile. Pedophiles come across as likeable people...that's how they are able to gain your trust and commit their crimes.
Horseplaying naked with little boys...give me a break.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 14:44     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:S said he showered naked with young boys. S said he touched the legs of naked little boys while showering. S said he horseplayed with little boys in the shower. Finally, S said, but I never had sex with the boys. OP, come back when you can add 3 +1=4 and not 2.


Since when are these crimes?


Gosh, either you are dense or you may actually be a follower and participant of child sex trafficking. It is a big, organized and lucrative business. Your statement speaks volumes. EEEEEWWWWW.


They're not crimes. I'm not sure why you're calling the PP a child trafficker. Sandusky was probably advised on his answers by his attorney before the interview.
Anonymous
Post 11/15/2011 14:40     Subject: What if Sandusky is innocent?
14:29 No, his attorney told Bob Costas he believed he was innocent and Costas noted that since oftentimes defense attorneys do not go that far. The attorney said that's why he's representing him. Tons of times defense attorneys end up thinking their client did it or might have done it.

Have you read the indictment? If these witnesses appear at trial and testify to even some of this, he's toast.