OP, I was just like your son. My folks and I were in a power struggle for most of my teen years. And it WAS a power struggle. They eventually sent me to a therapist (which I really don't think will help much if a kid does't want to be there, or at least agree that there's a problem). The thing that finally worked was when they just gave up. Truly. They were very clear as I was growing up that I was on my own once I hit adulthood, and when they threw up their hands and stopped trying to intervene in my perceived self-destruction, I shaped up. It wasn't overnight, but it happened. Teens often have a VERY hard time seeing the forest through the trees, but in my case, once they gave up and essentially told me my future was up to me and lotsa luck, asshole, I calmed down enough to get a view of the forest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems obvious to me. He wants more attention. Negative attention is still attention. Have you been distracted or focussed more on his siblings? Have you taken one-on-one time with him just to have fun (not nag)?

I'd at least give it a try...

Thank you for this suggestion. With four children, two of them very young and one with ADHD of course my attention is spread thin. I'm going to make a date to take him out for a special mother & son date, maybe a movie of a book we've both read. He and I both read then discuss books or shows we've enjoyed. We also both enjoy talking about politics. I'm going to plan something special and see if it helps a little. In the past taking him out to dinner has been enjoyable but only a short term solution.

Please, posters, have fewer than 4 children so your attention isn't spread thin. I beg you.

Signed, one of 4 who stopped at 2

test12

OP, I haven't had time to read all the comments so someone may have already said this. I agree with you that rudeness is unacceptable. Your kid is acting like a jerk. You shouldn't let him act that way without challenging him on that.

On the other hand, I wonder if you and your husband are being fair to him. Sounds like he is doing okay in school and sports. No, he is not living up to your standards and he is in for a surprise if he thinks he will get into the very top schools with his grades such as they are. But the fact is that he is doing well and will get into some decent schools.

He will need to come to terms with matching his effort to his ambitions but you can't "punish" that in to him. You can make it clear that his perceptions don't match reality but you can't force him to be different. And I suspect he may be reacting oppositionally because he feels like you're too hard on him.

So here's my bottom line. I agree that it is frustrating to see your kid not live up to his potential (been there done that) but he's doing fine compared to a lot of other kids I know. I suggest holding the line on the rudeness but realizing that he's got to sort out the ambition stuff for himself and giving him some slack on that.

Good luck! Sounds like a tough time for you all!.

Have him neutered if you don't like him. All teenage boys I've ever known were like this.

Anonymous wrote:OP, the pattern of starting out strongly with good grades and then sliding, is very typical of gifted/ADD or gifted/LD teens. Just something to consider.

I have a call into his pediatrician regarding a possible ADHD evaluation. One of my children is ADHD but very inattentive and high energy, cannot focus, and impulsive. We also struggle with grades, something that I never have to worry about with my 16 year old. I am wondering if he suffers from a form of ADHD or maybe just not the "hyper" portion of ADHD. I do feel at this point an evaluation is in order.

I appreciate the extra set of "eyes" I am getting from each and every response here. It really helps, even the feedback about my grumpy disposition towards my DS and my negative attitude. I do need to talk to someone about myself, I need better coping skills, no doubt.

OP, the pattern of starting out strongly with good grades and then sliding, is very typical of gifted/ADD or gifted/LD teens. Just something to consider.

He doesn't sound like a bad kid. Just maybe bored and yes, lazy. That was my brother but add in the terrible grades b/c he was even too lazy to do the schoolwork. And he had a very high IQ to boot. Would he agree to do something fun with just you? Like go to a movie and dinner? Or go hiking? If so, take him and have as much fun as you can. It will be tempting to talk to him about what's bothering him, what his problem is, etc etc but don't. Just spend some time together alone if possible doing something pleasant. Ignore any negative or lame comments. If he wants to sit in semi-sweaty clothes and not shower, let him. At his age, you've done your job in terms of teaching him how to take care of his body. Don't engage the rudeness. I have a strong willed kid and I am sure I will be writing this in 10 yrs myself. The only thing that works with him is to disengage. If he is going to be rude to you, don't let him. Leave the room and instruct siblings to do so too. I would also have you DH spend some time with him alone doing something enjoyable and skip any lectures. Hang in there. I remember how my brother exhausted my single mother when he was a teenager. He didn't mature until he was in his mid 20s but he finally did. He even apologized to my mother for all of the trouble he caused her when he was a teen.

OP, I completely sympathize. A friend's bright, athletic 16 yo son went through a similar stage. They took him to a therapist and had both individual and family therapy. It helped a lot - I really think you should try it.

Anonymous wrote:If he doesn't shower or brush his teeth that may be a real sign of depression. Most boys I know this age are actually pretty focused on hygiene (because of girls), and kids who play sports tend to shower pretty regularly. It may be that taking away the things he likes to do have created a downward spiral and exacerbated depression? I would get him checked out pretty quickly so that it doesn't affect his school year - presumably he's a junior which is the most important year for college admissions so if, as you say, your aim is to get him out of the house as fast as possible you probably want to make sure he does reasonably well this year.

I would also suggest counseling or parenting classes for you as some professional advice on how to respond to him would probably be helpful. Maybe a little positive reinforcement now and again would be helpful. You haven't said a single postiive thing about him on this thread. He must do something that you are proud of? He actually sounds to me like a pretty good/normal teenage boy. Your language and attitude are so negative and combative so it's not surprising that things have gotten so bad.

I have said many good things about him. He gets great grades, he isn't a trouble maker, he's an amazing musician, he's very athletic, he can be a joy to be around but he's also an incredible draining person when he's challenging us.

He isn't showering because he's sad or "down", he's not showering because he's lazy. I wish I could explain better than I am. He'll come in from practice and I'll tell him to run up and shower because we're eating in 20 minutes. 20 minutes will go by and I'll find him sitting on Facebook or playing xbox, no shower and still in his sweaty practice clothes. When I ask why he hasn't showered he'll tell me that they barely broke a sweat and he doesn't need to when it's apparent he's covered in dirt and soaking wet. I don't see depressed, I see lazy. But it could 100% be depressed. Or ADHD. Or just not wanted to do what we ask. I don't know.

I don't mean to be so down on him or sound so negative but when you live this 24/7 it's tough to see the light in the situation, same as you would in a bad marriage. It sucks to deal with such a difficult person, spouse, parent, or child.

If he doesn't shower or brush his teeth that may be a real sign of depression. Most boys I know this age are actually pretty focused on hygiene (because of girls), and kids who play sports tend to shower pretty regularly. It may be that taking away the things he likes to do have created a downward spiral and exacerbated depression? I would get him checked out pretty quickly so that it doesn't affect his school year - presumably he's a junior which is the most important year for college admissions so if, as you say, your aim is to get him out of the house as fast as possible you probably want to make sure he does reasonably well this year.

I would also suggest counseling or parenting classes for you as some professional advice on how to respond to him would probably be helpful. Maybe a little positive reinforcement now and again would be helpful. You haven't said a single postiive thing about him on this thread. He must do something that you are proud of? He actually sounds to me like a pretty good/normal teenage boy. Your language and attitude are so negative and combative so it's not surprising that things have gotten so bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow...calling him an Asshat?

Anyways, for about 10 months my DD displayed some of the behavior that your DS is showing. She was out of control.

We were at our wit's end and, as a last resort, we took her to a therapist. Come to find out that she was depressed and had some emotional issues she was dealing with. She had lost a close grandparent and some other things that had taken a toll on her.

We thought we were attentive parents, but we were so caught up in the negative aspects of her behavior and how WE thought she should act, that we forgot that there had to be CAUSE for the behavior.

Cursing at you is unacceptable. But I think there is something deeper there. Don't focus on the behavior - take steps to find out WHY.

Good luck!

I'm venting on a parenting board, I do not call him that to his face. I'm only human and he is pushing me to the edge of my limits. If I can't vent online where can I vent?

PP here. I wrote a pretty long message. I hope you read past the first line. Do not get offended, but your response exhibits a lot of the same feelings that we had. In your posts, you have focused a lot on YOU being pushed to your limits, YOU are only human, I am tired, I did not raise him this way, etc. Honestly, as the therapist told us, you bear the brunt of the behavior, but it is not about YOU. You are not your DS' enemy and he is not your enemy. I understand that you are venting. I have been there and done that. But your tone about your son is negative and adversarial. You have talked a lot about waht he does not do, the negaitve aspects of his personality - You are venting. Cool! But I have given you some suggestions based on a similar experience (and other PP's have also). At a certain point, the venting and the personalization have to stop. There is something more there.

I am sorry if I sound harsh, but I have been where you are and a similar mindset about it. Until we swallowed our pride and sought help, we sounded very much like you.

Good Luck.

I agree you and I appreciate the feedback. This is kind of one of those posts and situations though where I feel like I'm on the airplane and I need the oxygen mask for myself before I can help him. I have said I love him and he's talented musically, he reads, he isn't into drinking or drugs. He's a good kid, just a pain, he's draining, he debates. There isn't much good to focus on right now at this junction in time. I'm not a bad parent for saying that, I don't need to sugar coat everything, but I do want to see someone for myself before I take him in, I said that earlier as well. I do thank you for understanding what we're experiencing, it helps to know we're not alone and this happens to other families.

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the dig re: asshat -- I found it rather funny. Does DS have his learner's permit? Our (previously asshatish) DD really has to turn on the charm now because she needs us to drive with her so she can get her 40 hours of driving before she can get her license. And it's horrifying and fun to drive with her -- when she actually has to turn to me for instruction and advise. Ha! I do know something she doesn't! Just a thought.

No, no permit. The deal was there was no permit unless there was also respect and basic chores were completed (brush teeth, wipe butt, shower, make bed). So we are heading towards 17 in early 2012 and no permit yet. That is on him, 100% in his hands. I am not bending on that one.

OP, ignore the dig re: asshat -- I found it rather funny. Does DS have his learner's permit? Our (previously asshatish) DD really has to turn on the charm now because she needs us to drive with her so she can get her 40 hours of driving before she can get her license. And it's horrifying and fun to drive with her -- when she actually has to turn to me for instruction and advise. Ha! I do know something she doesn't! Just a thought.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow...calling him an Asshat?

Anyways, for about 10 months my DD displayed some of the behavior that your DS is showing. She was out of control.

We were at our wit's end and, as a last resort, we took her to a therapist. Come to find out that she was depressed and had some emotional issues she was dealing with. She had lost a close grandparent and some other things that had taken a toll on her.

We thought we were attentive parents, but we were so caught up in the negative aspects of her behavior and how WE thought she should act, that we forgot that there had to be CAUSE for the behavior.

Cursing at you is unacceptable. But I think there is something deeper there. Don't focus on the behavior - take steps to find out WHY.

Good luck!

I'm venting on a parenting board, I do not call him that to his face. I'm only human and he is pushing me to the edge of my limits. If I can't vent online where can I vent?

PP here. I wrote a pretty long message. I hope you read past the first line. Do not get offended, but your response exhibits a lot of the same feelings that we had. In your posts, you have focused a lot on YOU being pushed to your limits, YOU are only human, I am tired, I did not raise him this way, etc. Honestly, as the therapist told us, you bear the brunt of the behavior, but it is not about YOU. You are not your DS' enemy and he is not your enemy. I understand that you are venting. I have been there and done that. But your tone about your son is negative and adversarial. You have talked a lot about waht he does not do, the negaitve aspects of his personality - You are venting. Cool! But I have given you some suggestions based on a similar experience (and other PP's have also). At a certain point, the venting and the personalization have to stop. There is something more there.

I am sorry if I sound harsh, but I have been where you are and a similar mindset about it. Until we swallowed our pride and sought help, we sounded very much like you.

Good Luck.