Yeah, it might challenge your worldview if your kids actually went to school with low-income kids.
Right now, you can pretend that these kids have been "allowed to fail" because the government just isn't doing enough for them.

You certainly don't want to discover that many of the poor families in Alexandria live that way because the government makes poverty so comfortable for them.
We spend top dollar to build first class schools, rec centers, public housing, etc. Our progressive educators ditch "traditional" educational theories and pander to the students, dumbing down the curriculum to make it fun/relevant/easy for them. All of our efforts make it that less likely that kids will ever escape "poverty." They have no incentive to work/learn, so they embrace the lazy entitlement mindset of their forebears.

But please take your kids to the suburbs so they won't have to see these things first hand. Keep teaching them that some day, a more progressive government
will finally spend and do enough for these kids to help them overcome poverty. Liberals love to embrace "diversity"--by which they mean they want their kids to have upper/middle class friends of all races. It's much easier to believe in the nobility of the poor and the unlimited possibilities of progressive government from a comfortable and safe distance.

Anonymous wrote:That does look scary, but consider...

TC's SAT average for white students -- 1720
FCPS SAT average for white students --1715

TC's school-wide averages will always suffer in comparison to most FCPS schools, because TC's student body is 20% white, 40% black, 31% hispanic and 6% Asian. More importantly, many of the non-white kids at FCPS schools come from middle class families. Some of Alexandria's non-white kids are middle class too, but many of them come from the vast apparatus of public housing complexes and other affodable housing projects that Alexandria maintains to ease the guilt of its rich, white, liberal population. So TC's student population is skewed heavily toward LEP and Free/Reduced Lunch population. Is it ideal to have so many poor students concentrated in one massive high school? No. Does it mean that your particular kid will be unable to achieve his potential at TC Williams? No.

One interesting comparison is to look at the AP Test results from TC compared to FCPS high schools. TC's kids score 3's, 4's, and 5's on AP Tests at a similar rate as the kids at the middle tier of FCPS schools (Lake Braddock, West Springfield, etc.). That tells me that the kids who are serious about getting a great education at TC Williams can, in fact, get one. And, by attending a school that has economic diversity, they'll likely gain some street smarts, too. Not such a bad thing to have...

Honestly, TC Williams gives me the willies. It seems like a schizophrenic place, and I don't think I'd be comfortable sending my kids there, although I do like Alexandria.

The web site and some parents talk up the advanced classes and how well the top students do. But the overwhelming number of its students are low-income, and it seems like they've been allowed to fail for a long time. As I understand it, minority students in Richmond and Hampton Roads have done much better than TC students.

I don't see how it's a valuable lesson for my kids to attend school with minority students whom administrators allow to fail and often appear to ignore. I'd like my kids to attend a diverse school, but my impression is that the student bodies at the schools in Fairfax are better integrated and that the school administrators don't spend as much time trying to suck up to upper-income parents they're worried about losing. From what I've read, TC is trying to remedy some of this now, but I really doubt they'll turn it around soon enough for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tucker is year round so you don't need to send your child there. BTW it's definitely not a neighborhood school, most children are bused in.

Hands down, FFx cty is the better choice for schools. I would be there is plenty of historical data to back that up too. The schools might get marginally better in 5 years in Alexandria but that's it - marginally. They are pretty bad now with the exception of one or two. MS and HS are really bad.

Cameron Station is ok but it's basically nice housing they dumped in a ghetto -y area.[i]

LOL!! Really? Boy, are you sheltered!?! When's the last time you went to the surrounding areas? I know this area well and it's far from being "ghetto-y" as this poster suggests. Folks on this board....

Cameron station is just a marketing name to make people pay more and not feel bad about moving to the Landmark area which is what it is.

Let's see ... I was over in that area yesterday and I am quite certain that the scores of low income, ugly, old apartments were all still standing.

It's fairly ghetto - once your inside the development, it's great, but the surrounding area sucks. There's an industrial park that backs into the develpment, which by the way, is where a rape occured. A woman from Camerson Station was running very early one morning when she was sexually assaulted.

That does look scary, but consider...

TC's SAT average for white students -- 1720
FCPS SAT average for white students --1715

TC's school-wide averages will always suffer in comparison to most FCPS schools, because TC's student body is 20% white, 40% black, 31% hispanic and 6% Asian. More importantly, many of the non-white kids at FCPS schools come from middle class families. Some of Alexandria's non-white kids are middle class too, but many of them come from the vast apparatus of public housing complexes and other affodable housing projects that Alexandria maintains to ease the guilt of its rich, white, liberal population. So TC's student population is skewed heavily toward LEP and Free/Reduced Lunch population. Is it ideal to have so many poor students concentrated in one massive high school? No. Does it mean that your particular kid will be unable to achieve his potential at TC Williams? No.

One interesting comparison is to look at the AP Test results from TC compared to FCPS high schools. TC's kids score 3's, 4's, and 5's on AP Tests at a similar rate as the kids at the middle tier of FCPS schools (Lake Braddock, West Springfield, etc.). That tells me that the kids who are serious about getting a great education at TC Williams can, in fact, get one. And, by attending a school that has economic diversity, they'll likely gain some street smarts, too. Not such a bad thing to have...

That is good SAT info, but I think breaking it down by race is more telling.

TJ (Fairfax) 2200
Langley (Fairfax) 1812
George Mason (Falls Church City) 1795
McLean (Fairfax) 1778
Yorktown (Arlington) 1741
Woodson (Fairfax) 1738
Madison (Fairfax) 1734
Oakton (Fairfax) 1729
Marshall (Fairfax) 1690
Washington-Lee (Arlington) 1670
Robinson (Fairfax) 1665
Chantilly (Fairfax) 1663
Stone Bridge (Loudoun) 1655
West Springfield (Fairfax) 1644
Herndon (Fairfax) 1642
Potomac Falls (Loudoun) 1640
Lake Braddock (Fairfax) 1639
Fairfax (Fairfax) 1635
Loudoun Valley (Loudoun) 1635
Westfield (Fairfax) 1625
Broad Run (Fairfax) 1619
Dominion (Loudoun) 1618
Brian Woods (Loudoun) 1613
Loudoun County (Loudoun) 1612
Centreville (Fairfax) 1596
Brentsville (PW) 1596
Osbourn Park (PW) 1587
Colonial Forge (Stafford) 1581
South Lakes (Fairfax) 1578
South County (Fairfax) 1572
Heritage (Loudoun) 1564
Freedom (Loudoun) 1563
West Potomac (Fairfax) 1561
Battlefield (PW) 1559
Forest Park (PW) 1537
Stuart (Fairfax) 1532

VIRGINIA AVERAGE 1521

Annandale (Fairfax) 1518
Edison (Fairfax) 1512
Stafford (Stafford) 1509

NATIONAL AVERAGE 1509

Falls Church (Fairfax) 1505
Mountain View (Stafford) 1505
Lee (Fairfax) 1504
Brooke Point (Stafford) 1499
Woodbridge (PW) 1497
Park View (Loudoun) 1486
Wakefield (Arlington) 1484
North Stafford (Stafford) 1473
Stonewall Jackson (PW) 1467
Hayfield (Fairfax) 1475
Hylton (PW) 1467
Mount Vernon (Fairfax) 1458
TC Williams (Alexandria City) 1442
Gar-Field (PW) 1440
Potomac (PW) 1408
Freedom (PW) 1310

Check out the SAT scores and compare the programs - I have worked in FCPS if you are going to be in the Alexandria section I would look at W.Potomac or more south at South County. Hayfield, Mount Vernon and Edison have similar SAT scores to TC Williams and similar issues - Just bc a school is in FCPS doesn't necessarily make it better than ACPS's TC. You have to look at them individually. That being said I like Hayfield, Edison, MV, and TC - overall kids rise or fall in all of these schools on their own merit - if you're an active parent and involved your kids will be fine - if you're more hands off you might have some issues. both Edison and W.Potomac have good academy programs. sit in on some PTSA meetings and see how you feel - that really is the best way to make a decision.

UGGG.... Typo... delete "to add" from that second to last sentence.

I love the fact that there are people who can consider the possibility that a child might be average/regular/middle of the road! So refreshing!! Seems like 98% of the people who post on DCUMs have highly talented children who are reading Shakespeare in kindergarten.

All kidding aside, there is something to be said for the influence of peers and whether the majority of the students encourage effort (academic, sports, journalism, band, etc.) or discourage effort. Are the peers adding something to add to the school or dragging down those who want to learn? That's the question everyone has to answer for themselves.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, if your child can't thrive in a school where he/she will have to share the same halls and cafeteria as children who are poor, don't speak English, or have special needs, then they may need to attend another school. But the unfortunate reality, which may serve to assuage some of your fears, is that few of these children will be in your child's advanced-course classroom. The administration at TC is dealing with a very complex situation; there are children from very well educated families, children who just arrived from Guatemala as 15-year-olds, and children who've inherited decades-long family histories of poverty. I know that Suzanne Maxey, our principal, believes TC is the most difficult educational challenge she's ever faced, and her energy and dedication amaze me.

That's a huge assumption that one's kid will be in the honors/AP track. Even the poster upthread mentioned only 75-100 students. What about the kids who are average? How do will they do in that situation where the kids don't speak English, have serious special needs, don't care to be in school, etc.

I think it is funny that everybody assumes that OP's unborn kid will be in advanced placement classes and do just fine in any school.

THE KID ISN'T EVEN BORN YET. NOT EVEN CONCEIVED!

This whole discussion, based on an OP who is "mindful" of the education system where she may move, is pretty funny.

Does anybody really think that ANY of these things posted about the high schools are going to be absolutely true in 15 years?? So silly (as is OP for even starting this thread).

Anonymous wrote:Yes, if your child can't thrive in a school where he/she will have to share the same halls and cafeteria as children who are poor, don't speak English, or have special needs, then they may need to attend another school.

There are many schools like this in NoVa that the state hasn't threatened to take over.

Yes, if your child can't thrive in a school where he/she will have to share the same halls and cafeteria as children who are poor, don't speak English, or have special needs, then they may need to attend another school. But the unfortunate reality, which may serve to assuage some of your fears, is that few of these children will be in your child's advanced-course classroom. The administration at TC is dealing with a very complex situation; there are children from very well educated families, children who just arrived from Guatemala as 15-year-olds, and children who've inherited decades-long family histories of poverty. I know that Suzanne Maxey, our principal, believes TC is the most difficult educational challenge she's ever faced, and her energy and dedication amaze me.

Anonymous wrote:Your kid will do fine anywhere. All Ffx county schools are very good. Some of them have their problems, but so do the private schools and so do alexandria city schools.

If your kid is a good kid it doesn't matter what school he goes to, he'll end up fine. Parents get too worried about "gang violence" at a school or the number of kids failing out every year. Do you think your kid is going to fail out? get involved in a gang? Probably not, so don't worry about it.

-West Potomac grad here.

This is how TC administration describes the school:

Largest and most complex high school in
VA (wrong)

? Challenging issues:
- ELL population has doubled
- ELL drop-out rate – 29%
- Special Education drop-out rate – 19%
- Free and Reduced Meals – 56%
? T.C. has NEVER made A.Y.P.

Your kid will do fine anywhere. All Ffx county schools are very good. Some of them have their problems, but so do the private schools and so do alexandria city schools.

If your kid is a good kid it doesn't matter what school he goes to, he'll end up fine. Parents get too worried about "gang violence" at a school or the number of kids failing out every year. Do you think your kid is going to fail out? get involved in a gang? Probably not, so don't worry about it.

-West Potomac grad here.