It can be S-E class or culture clashes that cause problems. DH and I come from very, very different background and cultures. Most of the issues in our 15 year relationship stem from how to deal with our respective families. Usually the issue is his family because they have a different=bad approach to life and want us to live just like they did, never mind that they were born in a completely different time/place. DH and I have highly similar approaches to parenting, finances, etc., so in our daily life, we're on the same page. That's what counts.

A little bit, and it comes out in unexpected, wierd little ways at times. Things like what his family expects and assumes, vs what my family (and I) expect and assume. Strangely, they (a bit lower) are hyper-status conscious and we are a bit nonchalant about it. Sometimes I just wish I could get them to calm the heck down about some things, but I don't know.

Anonymous wrote:I am a European who married an American, so in terms of level of education, culture, and civilization there was a significant gap. It is hard sometimes, but I committed to my own personal "mission civilisatrice".
And I have actually even found myself learning things from the natives here. Their simplicity, their devotion to their work, and their child-like belief in their God, etc.
So a significant socio-economic gap can be a benefit and offer learning opportunities from an anthropological perspective. I suggest you focus on this, and try to enjoy spending time with the lower classes in their natural habitat.

You must be French...

Yes, I married down. I naively thought we could over come our starkly different childhoods. It's been a very rough road. His family is totally not involved in our lives (and this is normal), they ask us for expensive gifts, and he has friends that are similar. It's very trying. I learned to keep true friends, not wealth-leeches, but he never did. He thinks like his upbringing doesn't understand certain behaviors (he was hit as a child) are not ok.

I married a college-educated man, who was able to attend university with an academic scholarship. He was also very skilled at soccer, and played at a college level. He was the only family-member from a "working" class family, that lacked ambition, had (and continue to have) zero pride in their home, vehicles, their appearance, etc...Luckily, I married the shiny star of that bunch, but my in-laws have caused about 99% of the major arguments my husband and I have had. I come from a middle-upper class family, and we worked very hard. My parents put me through school, but I know it wasn't easy...we weren't rich by any means, but never went without...You MUST know the family you're marrying into. Because my husband and I are both successful in our careers, we are the ONLY ones in the family with some money...which puts a lot of pressure on us to "help out" whenever someone needs money, a place to stay, etc....since my in-laws are so dysfunctional. I find the difference in social classes to be more about views of education, child-raising, etc....than about money. I find it exhausting to have all the pressure on our shoulders....in fact, I'm hoping we can move out of state as soon as possible. I married a great man, and I wouldn't trade him for the world, but dealing with his family is VERY DIFFICULT!!!

Anonymous wrote:I am a European who married an American, so in terms of level of education, culture, and civilization there was a significant gap. It is hard sometimes, but I committed to my own personal "mission civilisatrice".
And I have actually even found myself learning things from the natives here. Their simplicity, their devotion to their work, and their child-like belief in their God, etc.
So a significant socio-economic gap can be a benefit and offer learning opportunities from an anthropological perspective. I suggest you focus on this, and try to enjoy spending time with the lower classes in their natural habitat.

Mission civilisatrice!!

LOL

Point is, many think they are marrying up only to find out years later they were not.

No. I'm sure people thought it was shallow, but I perceived too many issues to doing so. Of course, I would have married "up" if I'd had the chance!

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read most of this thread, but want to respond to the OP. I married a man from a different (lower) class than mine, and yes, there are differences that get on my nerves. For example, he refuses to go to the symphony or opera, so I have to take the children alone. I resent this. I can't understand why he thinks the symphony is boring or a waste of time. He may not like it, but at some level, he must (and he does) understand that it can be a nice thing to "expose" our children to. I loved going to the symphony and to the opera as a child. It was a big occasion, and we always got dressed up and went somewhere nice to eat before or afterwards.

It feels like DH is rejecting my "culture", and he is. But on the other hand, I reject his culture in many ways too. He slips into the local vernacular from time to time, and I hate it. I always call him on it. Yes, I know this sounds incredibly snobby, but I can't stand those speech patterns, and yes they sound uneducated and lower class, which they are.

NP here. Just wanted to comment that some of the differences might be innate personality differences and not just cultural differences. Because I grew up in a very similar background to the one you describe, and while I will attend with family / friends, I don't really get much out of going to the symphony or the opera. They just don't resonate with the way my brain processes the world. It also sounds like part of why you enjoy going is the emotional connection it gives you to happy memories from your childhood, and it makes sense that your DH wouldn't react the same way. To me the issue would be him refusing to participate in something that brings you joy, rather than the simple fact that he didn't personally find much pleasure in the activity.

OP here. 20:50, thank you, I understand exactly where you're coming from and appreciate your advice.

21:23, wise words.

22:02: This is elitist and snobby, agreed. Maybe stupid as well. But you sound like you don't understand the issues at hand.

what a stupid snobby elitist thread.

PP here. I really think maybe it is better for some people to have married their h.s. sweetheart! At least they would know their background and family before any surprises.

I have a childhood friend from a really nice family with a really accomplished background. She is truly accustomed to nice things (not just hoping for them!!!!) The kind of place she comes from you don't see in this area. Her family are down to earth people. You never hear them criticize others because they are not insecure and well, they have class. Meanwhile, this friends IL's are trying to rip her to shreds because they grew up differently and the IL's are actually threatened by it. It is disgusting. No, my friend does not belong in her IL's family. They could not be more different, which usually is a good thing. If only the IL's did not believe everyone should be like them!

Recently, my friend told me the IL's actually told her she seeks attention - "on exhibition" I think they told her. She could not believe her ears. Many people in the community know her ILs and are not surprised they are not welcoming to her. They almost wish they could have warned her. Over the years these people have shocked her with their terrible behaviors toward her. They have thought she did not know. One thing after another. I have known my friend since way back when. She has never really changed. She is a woman of conviction, grace and charm. She is the first to try to cheer someone up. She is everything her IL's (from what I have seen and heard from her) are not. We've seen each other through so much. She does not deserve this. Yes, this friend married down. I'll say it for her.

OP, know your IL's. That is what I thought of when I read your post. Your IL's may very well resent your socio economic class, upbringing, accomplishments and background. Hell, they might just not like the way you look. It could be anything an insecure, sociopathic bunch could dream up. Not always for the better. They may have an impossible time hiding it.

I haven't read the whole thread either, but wanted to comment.

I know quite a few women in their forties who are unmarried and would love to be married. Their biggest problem, I think, is that they equate a happy marriage with marrying someone of the same SES. I even know a woman who had a brief unsuccessful marriage to a man of the right SES - now she is looking, but won't consider anyone of a different SES even though the same SES didn't make things work the first time around. Ladies - love can happy in the strangest places - look outside the box!!

I didn't read most of this thread, but want to respond to the OP. I married a man from a different (lower) class than mine, and yes, there are differences that get on my nerves. For example, he refuses to go to the symphony or opera, so I have to take the children alone. I resent this. I can't understand why he thinks the symphony is boring or a waste of time. He may not like it, but at some level, he must (and he does) understand that it can be a nice thing to "expose" our children to. I loved going to the symphony and to the opera as a child. It was a big occasion, and we always got dressed up and went somewhere nice to eat before or afterwards.

It feels like DH is rejecting my "culture", and he is. But on the other hand, I reject his culture in many ways too. He slips into the local vernacular from time to time, and I hate it. I always call him on it. Yes, I know this sounds incredibly snobby, but I can't stand those speech patterns, and yes they sound uneducated and lower class, which they are.

But these are minor things. DH is everything I want in a husband. Everyone has things they don't like about their spouse. Sometimes I wish he'd read the same books, or had the same experiences I had (country clubs, trips to Europe, etc.), but he had none of those things, and can't relate to much of my background, which is sad to me. I love to share with him, and he does not know what I am talking about when I tell him stories about my life.

Nobody's perfect, OP. DH doesn't put the toilet seat down either, but I don't hold it against him, since 99.9% of men, no matter what their socioeconomic class, leave the seat up. I never wish I hadn't married him, but I do wish he understood more of my background, and that does make me sad sometimes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, can you explain the differences? I'm not sure I understand what's going on, or that it's due to socioeconomic class (as opposed to him just getting on your nerves.)

I used to date a guy who loved to wear those baggy wrestler's pants, stapled the hem of his suits, and re-gifted everything from Coca-Cola coasters he found in a 12-pack to cheap airport souvenirs. He thought liningl the dining room with shot glasses was "classy," but I'm stil trying to decide if he suffered from class or simply bad taste. lol!

Huh? Sorry, I can't help but wonder:WHY?

Was also wondering about that. What does it mean?

Not the OP, but he probably took a stapler to his pants to shorten them instead of a) sewing them himself or b) taking them to someone that does alterations. A step above hemming them with duct tape, IMO.