Anonymous wrote:17:25. I would also add that middle school is usually the weak link in any school system.

I would agree with this assessment. We put DD in private school halfway through middle - HORRIBLE things- kids snorting Zyrtec, constant distraction in school. Did I mention we are in a top rated school system?

DH and I wish we'd started private in 6th. I don't think I could have been an effective homeschool teacher though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I am a professor, and my colleagues and I do notice a social difference between the homeschooled children and the rest. It's as if they haven't developed the proper social "filters," for lack of a better word. They are generally bright, articulate students--good students--, but seem unaware of their own social awkwardness. They have no idea how to put other people at ease, and seem rather intense.

I have noticed this also. I used to teach at the high school level and students that were home schooled up until high school had a very hard time adjusting. They were very nice, bright, hardworking students, but socially awkward and other students found them strange. They definitely fell into the "weird outcast" group. Of course, I taught at an urban, inner city public high school so they might not have had as many problems at a smaller suburban or small town HS.

The lack of social skills that you are detecting may have been the precise reason that they were home schooled in the first place. How disappointing that a college professor (if you really even are one) would be perplexed by a young adult who is "unaware of their own social awkwardness". Kids are very cruel to each other, but you are the adult. How about if you model the behavior and put them at ease by reaching out to them. They lack filters, so gently, show them where the filters should be.

Professor here. Yes, I really am a professor, and I'd like to think that I am a good one who cares about my students. I unfortunately have to teach students social graces (e.g., how to address professors appropriately in emails--"yo, prof" is not a good way to begin and email; that texting during class is impolite; that active listening and considerate class participation are good things, etc.). I observe, however, that some students are obviously much more at ease with other students and professors than others. I am not "cruel" to students by not teaching them how to make friends, make small talk, and engage in appropriate informal conversation. If you think that professors ought to be doing this, then you need to adjust your expectations for both yourself and for professors.

It is YOUR job as a parent to ensure that your child can survive and thrive in multiple social environments. Having your child spend his days at school is a GREAT way to make sure your child is exposed to social rigors and, through trial and error, figures out the best way to navigate them. Frankly, by the time he reaches college, much of his social demeanor has already been formed. Homeschooling protects him from a reality that is ultimately unavoidable. If you want your child to navigate college--not just academically but socially-- and not end up at home after the first semester because the social pressures are too overwhelming, then I think that you need to take a good hard look at whether or not you are doing your child a favor by keeping him away from school.

If you think that your child needs to be home schooled because he cannot function socially in middle school or high school, how do you think he will survive in a college dorm? How will he choose his classes? Buy books? School supplies? How will he choose his major? How will he make friends? How will he feed himself and with whom will he eat? Will he bathe often enough and wear appropriate clothing? How will he find a summer job? How will he interview for a job after college? Maybe your child is so severely socially handicapped that he can't go away to college, but I think that these cases are few and far between. I have had students with major disabilities thrive in college--and it's because their parents were brave enough to let their child go.

"I don't understand posters who chase after grammar and spelling errors and have nothing else to contribute, especially when the writer is making valid, intelligent arguments. "

Even when the topic is HOMESCHOOLING?

Paging Oscar Wilde & Noel Coward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it could be really fantastic if done only for middle school years and living in the DC metro area. There are such enormous resources here, many of them cheap or free. The Smithsonian, etc., is just the tip of the iceberg. Done properly, I think children well home-schooled could have such a richer learning experience here.

Socially, middle school is the best time to homeschool. Children will already have learned important social skills in elementary school and have established friendships. Ideally, your children/family will have a rich network of friends from the neighborhood, sports activities, etc. Socially, middle school can be brutal and homeschooling could shield them from some of the worst of it until they are a little older, more confident and can better negotiate their way through peer pressure etc. At the least, it would protect their academic life from social distractions/dilemmas.

I loved reading this! It's actually what DH and I have discussed, combined with extended international travel. I'm a teacher, so am not worried about how she will keep up academically. I just know how brutal middle school is/was and I would rather be exploring India with DD while my she matures, rather than dealing with cliques and peer pressure and mean girls. She'll have plenty of time for that later, and maybe can even avoid some of the worst of it if she's more worldly and less insulated from the realities of life. In any case, it's neat to see others might have a similar plan!!

But isn't middle school immunization that protects against a lifetime of the everyday cruelty of the work setting? Learning to deal with difficult circumstances, and boredom, and peer pressure...this is also part of the education you'd want for your child, right?

First poster quoted above here. Unfortunately, I don't think you can be immunized from social difficulties, but you can learn to handle them. That's one reason why I suggested homeschooling ONLY for middle school. Kids can learn social interactions during elementary school, during which they may encounter bullying or mean girls or whatever, but will certainly learn how to make and maintain friendships, work with others, etc. In high school, they'll learn how to socialize in romantic situations, as well as deepen their other social skills. I think, though, that children at the middle school age, are uniquely vulnerable. Romantic situations are new, any bullying is probably far more intense, cliquishness is more intense, physical development is new and varies widely among the group so, for example, girls that are especially late bloomers or very early bloomers may have an especially hard time. This is probably the nadir of any child's insecurities during their lifetime, which make them more vulnerable to peer pressure and less able to stick up for themselves or forge their own path.

I think that high school will provide opportunities to deal with all the social situations that kids face in middle school, but they'll just be better equipped to handle it-- emotionally, cognitively, etc.

BTW, I have been a teacher at every level from elementary through university, so I base this on my experience. My own children are still young, so I don't have experience parenting middle schoolers, but I suspect that this is an age where is easier for children and their parents to grow apart. That would be natural as they become more peer-oriented. Homeschooling at this age might be a nice way to establish a stronger relationship that will transition to adulthood. Just a thought. And kids this age rock! It could be a lot of fun.

PP, you and I should get together and make this happen! I'm the poster who quoted you up top (who wants to travel to India - and everywhere we can - with my DD during middle school). The poster in bold, above, is who I am going to address. At $20,000 - $35,000/year for a private middle school in DC (which is what we would choose to do if DD stayed here for middle school) for three years of 6th, 7th, and 8th grade - that's a TON of money. The lessons you describe: difficult circumstances, peer pressure, boredom - if that costs $100,000, I'd rather take that money and do something with it in a positive way for my child - imagine what you could do with $100,000 in terms of a customized, personalized, one-of-a-kind experience. It's not enough to just settle for the education children get in the public or private schools and say, "Okay, well, they're learning life lessons about how to be bored." That's nuts! Think of the time they're wasting, the (private-school tuition) money you're throwing at these schools. What about the experiences they could be getting/doing/having elsewhere! Your argument just isn't convincing. Three years of middle school isn't something to endure. It could really be the start of an life of service, experience, and wonder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I am a professor, and my colleagues and I do notice a social difference between the homeschooled children and the rest. It's as if they haven't developed the proper social "filters," for lack of a better word. They are generally bright, articulate students--good students--, but seem unaware of their own social awkwardness. They have no idea how to put other people at ease, and seem rather intense.

I have noticed this also. I used to teach at the high school level and students that were home schooled up until high school had a very hard time adjusting. They were very nice, bright, hardworking students, but socially awkward and other students found them strange. They definitely fell into the "weird outcast" group. Of course, I taught at an urban, inner city public high school so they might not have had as many problems at a smaller suburban or small town HS.

The lack of social skills that you are detecting may have been the precise reason that they were home schooled in the first place. How disappointing that a college professor (if you really even are one) would be perplexed by a young adult who is "unaware of their own social awkwardness". Kids are very cruel to each other, but you are the adult. How about if you model the behavior and put them at ease by reaching out to them. They lack filters, so gently, show them where the filters should be.

Not the PP you quoted but by the time they get to college, they are on their own. It is NOT the professor's job to teach them about appropriate social behavior. It's parents like you that professors HATE-helicopter parents!. I bet you'd call your DC's professor up and complain if they get anything less than a B. Once you're in college you are an adult. There is no hand-holding.

Teacher here. I teach upper grades and have had some students who were homeschooled during their elementary years. Admittedly my sample size is small, but they shared some similar characteristics-- they were academically advanced students, but really lacked patience when it came to working with other students, or really just being in a classroom with a wide range of learners.

So I would caution you to think carefully about how your children will be socialized. Sometimes (again, in my limited experience) parents will put their kid on a soccer team or something and call it a day because they think of "social skills" as having a outlet to play with other kids. It's really a lot more than that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I am a professor, and my colleagues and I do notice a social difference between the homeschooled children and the rest. It's as if they haven't developed the proper social "filters," for lack of a better word. They are generally bright, articulate students--good students--, but seem unaware of their own social awkwardness. They have no idea how to put other people at ease, and seem rather intense.

I have noticed this also. I used to teach at the high school level and students that were home schooled up until high school had a very hard time adjusting. They were very nice, bright, hardworking students, but socially awkward and other students found them strange. They definitely fell into the "weird outcast" group. Of course, I taught at an urban, inner city public high school so they might not have had as many problems at a smaller suburban or small town HS.

The lack of social skills that you are detecting may have been the precise reason that they were home schooled in the first place. How disappointing that a college professor (if you really even are one) would be perplexed by a young adult who is "unaware of their own social awkwardness". Kids are very cruel to each other, but you are the adult. How about if you model the behavior and put them at ease by reaching out to them. They lack filters, so gently, show them where the filters should be.

Anonymous wrote:Nope. The teacher at home isn't very patient and doesn't know very much about pedagogy.

Thank you. You've taught me an new word today. It is a good word. Although its "peda" prefix gives it an unsavory connotation.

Good point. Very few parents would have the patience and skill to homeschool in a way that would really be beneficial to the whole child. But in the case of severe bullying or academic inadequacy--yes, I would do it, if there were no viable alternative.

Anonymous wrote:Whichever PP said "only as a last resort"--I totally agree.

I would do OK (safe, but not academically great) public schools plus tutoring before homeschooling.

School is not just about academics, it's about socialization on a larger group scale. For those homeschooling parents who think that kids will learn to socialize with other homeschooled kids--that's not much exposure to diversity. If you think about how many THOUSANDS of hours children spend observing the interactions of other children from elementary through middle to high school, you will realize that our young anthropologists are picking up many, many subtle clues about how individuals fit into groups. Success and happiness in life depends significantly upon how well you can navigate complex social interactions, and homeschooling just cannot do accomplish what schools can do.

I also fear that some parents who homeschool just want to protect their middle-school children from the difficulties of adolescence. It's supposed to be hard! Your teenagers are supposed to get upset and cry and hate the politics of middle school. But--they survive. A little scarred, sure (aren't we all?), but wiser and more empathetic for it. How are your kids supposed to be resilient if you don't expose them to social pressure?

I do think, of course, that in extreme cases of bullying and such, parents do have a legitimate concern for their children and ought to consider switching schools if the school administration doesn't address the problem. But, these instances aside (and even then, a different school might be better than homeschooling), I do not think homeschooling is a good choice.

Agree 100%.

I would also only do it as a last resort in extreme cases.

Anonymous wrote:No. I am a professor, and my colleagues and I do notice a social difference between the homeschooled children and the rest. It's as if they haven't developed the proper social "filters," for lack of a better word. They are generally bright, articulate students--good students--, but seem unaware of their own social awkwardness. They have no idea how to put other people at ease, and seem rather intense.

I have noticed this also. I used to teach at the high school level and students that were home schooled up until high school had a very hard time adjusting. They were very nice, bright, hardworking students, but socially awkward and other students found them strange. They definitely fell into the "weird outcast" group. Of course, I taught at an urban, inner city public high school so they might not have had as many problems at a smaller suburban or small town HS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it could be really fantastic if done only for middle school years and living in the DC metro area. There are such enormous resources here, many of them cheap or free. The Smithsonian, etc., is just the tip of the iceberg. Done properly, I think children well home-schooled could have such a richer learning experience here.

Socially, middle school is the best time to homeschool. Children will already have learned important social skills in elementary school and have established friendships. Ideally, your children/family will have a rich network of friends from the neighborhood, sports activities, etc. Socially, middle school can be brutal and homeschooling could shield them from some of the worst of it until they are a little older, more confident and can better negotiate their way through peer pressure etc. At the least, it would protect their academic life from social distractions/dilemmas.

I loved reading this! It's actually what DH and I have discussed, combined with extended international travel. I'm a teacher, so am not worried about how she will keep up academically. I just know how brutal middle school is/was and I would rather be exploring India with DD while my she matures, rather than dealing with cliques and peer pressure and mean girls. She'll have plenty of time for that later, and maybe can even avoid some of the worst of it if she's more worldly and less insulated from the realities of life. In any case, it's neat to see others might have a similar plan!!

But isn't middle school immunization that protects against a lifetime of the everyday cruelty of the work setting? Learning to deal with difficult circumstances, and boredom, and peer pressure...this is also part of the education you'd want for your child, right?

First poster quoted above here. Unfortunately, I don't think you can be immunized from social difficulties, but you can learn to handle them. That's one reason why I suggested homeschooling ONLY for middle school. Kids can learn social interactions during elementary school, during which they may encounter bullying or mean girls or whatever, but will certainly learn how to make and maintain friendships, work with others, etc. In high school, they'll learn how to socialize in romantic situations, as well as deepen their other social skills. I think, though, that children at the middle school age, are uniquely vulnerable. Romantic situations are new, any bullying is probably far more intense, cliquishness is more intense, physical development is new and varies widely among the group so, for example, girls that are especially late bloomers or very early bloomers may have an especially hard time. This is probably the nadir of any child's insecurities during their lifetime, which make them more vulnerable to peer pressure and less able to stick up for themselves or forge their own path.

I think that high school will provide opportunities to deal with all the social situations that kids face in middle school, but they'll just be better equipped to handle it-- emotionally, cognitively, etc.

BTW, I have been a teacher at every level from elementary through university, so I base this on my experience. My own children are still young, so I don't have experience parenting middle schoolers, but I suspect that this is an age where is easier for children and their parents to grow apart. That would be natural as they become more peer-oriented. Homeschooling at this age might be a nice way to establish a stronger relationship that will transition to adulthood. Just a thought. And kids this age rock! It could be a lot of fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP and I feel that I should explain why I've considered homeschooling. I'm a former elementary teacher and feel that I know all to well how much time is wasted during the school day, and despite the lip service schools give, it is extremely difficult to differentiate to different learners in any real, meaningful way. I do honestly believe that in this day and age, with all the resources out there, that a commited parent can provide a better education than what their child would receive at school. That being said the problem I have with homeschooling is that it does seem that it would be difficult for kids to make friends. I know homeschoolers always talk about the numerous activities their kids are involved in, but from what I've seen from my own kids, it's not easy to become close friends with someone you only see 1x/week in karate. It takes time and a lot of exposure for close friendships to develop. It's that concern that's keeping me from taking the plunge with my own kids.

Wow! Were you really a teacher? This is so poorly written. Wow!

Come on PP. It isn't poorly written. It is true that she is using a lot of compound sentence structure. The excessive use of commas in American English has become epidemic. I am also completely suspicious of the intellect of anyone who uses the hackneyed expression: "that being said..." It is so dull and redundant. But these are stylistic distinctions; the grammatical structure of what she has written is fine for internet purposes. Don't be such a bitch.

The thing is, I can't imagine that I am qualified to teach subjects such as algebra and calculus.

Anonymous wrote:"Not the pp... but I know one of those types. And she is extremely weird.

I was homeschooled until middle school. Not a good experience. My mom's weaknesses and biases reflected onto what she taught us and when I entered middle school I was socially awkward, dressed weird, and had no idea how to function in a classroom. I was also pretty behind in science and math, as well as specials such as art, PE, music, etc. I was unprepared for middle school English and social studies classes. That plus throwing the amount of work at my sister and I (twins), teachers were not understanding, and the fact that kids were merciless middle school was hell. High school was only slightly better.

I've known a lot of homeschoolers - between growing up and working at one camp for a few years which had a specific "homeschool week". None of them broke the stereotype that homeschoolers are socially awkward, dress funny, and and have no self awareness skills. And while I'm aware that not all homeschoolers are like that, quite a few are. I've also run into homeschoolers here and there in this area and they also don't seem to break the stereotype.

I said previously that if parents have previous teaching skills and know how kid's learn, the schools are not sufficient, and their kids have plenty of opportunities to interact with kids of all backgrounds it may be ok. But, I'm still a strong advocate of public schools - even though I know they are not perfect. I also personally think that if parents want to teach their kids at home they should be required to pass the same Praxis tests that teachers do. "

My sister and me....

All you could see here was a grammatical error? I don't understand posters who chase after grammar and spelling errors and have nothing else to contribute, especially when the writer is making valid, intelligent arguments.

Homeschooled pp, this is a fascinating perspective. Thank you for sharing.

Whichever PP said "only as a last resort"--I totally agree.

I would do OK (safe, but not academically great) public schools plus tutoring before homeschooling.

School is not just about academics, it's about socialization on a larger group scale. For those homeschooling parents who think that kids will learn to socialize with other homeschooled kids--that's not much exposure to diversity. If you think about how many THOUSANDS of hours children spend observing the interactions of other children from elementary through middle to high school, you will realize that our young anthropologists are picking up many, many subtle clues about how individuals fit into groups. Success and happiness in life depends significantly upon how well you can navigate complex social interactions, and homeschooling just cannot do accomplish what schools can do.

I also fear that some parents who homeschool just want to protect their middle-school children from the difficulties of adolescence. It's supposed to be hard! Your teenagers are supposed to get upset and cry and hate the politics of middle school. But--they survive. A little scarred, sure (aren't we all?), but wiser and more empathetic for it. How are your kids supposed to be resilient if you don't expose them to social pressure?

I do think, of course, that in extreme cases of bullying and such, parents do have a legitimate concern for their children and ought to consider switching schools if the school administration doesn't address the problem. But, these instances aside (and even then, a different school might be better than homeschooling), I do not think homeschooling is a good choice.